England vs Germany

[TIL 1010 4,737]

3 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

 

Denmark will be a happy bunch watching that.

 

 

🥳

Can i point out that we are playing either Sweden or Ukraine next ?

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,811]

4 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

🤣😂 tactical masterclass. Give a weak opposition all the decent chances. Wait until the 75th minute and after bringing on a player that should’ve started, before playing to our strengths. Give the opposition a one on one chance that should’ve made it 1-1.

Its fantastic England have won and the two goals were great. But this was not a complete performance or a tactical masterclass 🤣 by any stretch. Better teams would have taken one of the chances Germany had.

Denmark will be a happy bunch watching that.

 

Sorry, got to go and cheer up, don’t want to be told off again.

🥳

 

[Crabbycanary3 994]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Fair enough and thanks for the explanation, but I maintain what you propose would have committed the cardinal sin of playing straight into the opponent's hands. Against a side as strong on the counter as Germany, being on the front foot too much is still something they're not going to mind as they'll always fancy their chances of getting a counter attack to stick.

England's Plan A would probably have been scuppered by theirs. So Southgate brought a plan B along that he'd worked on a fair bit as we know he's keen on a back three. First fifteen minutes were nervy as they played the occasion more than the opposition, but after that, both teams were even and England were edging it when it mattered down the stretch and deserved the win.

More than anything, Southgate got his subs spot on. Needed a couple of big saves from Pickford, but you don't face teams of Germany's calibre and swan your way through. Winning is a habit, and you have to work to get it. This was judged very well.

I am certainly not advocating we have to stick to Plan A and f*** the opposition. That is disrespectful arrogance, and will definitely not get us far, but I felt we have the players to allow us to press and attack the opposition and I have the confidence that our defence and DMs can mop up anything that Germany could give us. Shaw and Trippier were very ineffective in that plan that Southgate came up with. From (poor) memory, in the 1st half, I  think Shaw (with the ball)  got within 20 metres of the German box, only once.

Our plan A may have been scuppered by the Germans but that doesn't mean we start on the defensive, we just need to have a Plan B to take the game to them, if Plan A was scuppered. Like I said before, we need to grow some (tactically) and look to impose ourselves on teams, not look for parity (at best) from the start

[ricardo 7,384]

Grealish made the difference.👍

[GJP 79]

Always thought we'd win. Although this isn't a great German team they have still got some very good players but England are a better side and it showed.

Edited June 29, 2021 by GJP

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

Just now, TIL 1010 said:

Can i point out that we are playing either Sweden or Ukraine next ?

So you think we’re out in the quarters? I was thinking further on, a bit of positivity!

No offence to Sweden or Ukraine but they’re not a serious threat in the competition from what I’ve seen. Denmark most definitely are and assuming they get to the semis, won’t be scared if it was to be us they have to play.

[Ken Hairy 3,771]

7 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

Denmark will be a happy bunch watching that. 

I bet you they won't 

[shefcanary 2,393]

n the Sheffield pub, on their wall.  Caps a bizarre night....

[Crabbycanary3 994]

6 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Is it about the nine and half hours we have now gone without conceding a goal ?

I haven't been a critic of that Tilly. 

[TIL 1010 4,737]

6 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Just to let posters know that the in conjunction with Sports Desk Pete I have arranged for half a dozen grief counsellors to be on hand to monitor this thread and console fans unlucky enough to support England who actually thought they might win.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,811]

Just now, Crabbycanary3 said:

Our plan A may have been scuppered by the Germans but that doesn't mean we start on the defensive, we just need to have a Plan B to take the game to them, if Plan A was scuppered. Like I said before, we need to grow some (tactically) and look to impose ourselves on teams, not look for parity (at best) from the start

So we should use plan A of 'attack', and then plan B of 'attack' if that doesn't work? How is that any better than Southgate's plan A that earned us a 2-0 win in a massive match today?

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,135]

Got his tactics spot on. Unless you're a clear and obvious class above your opposition it's not a good idea to play attacking, possession based football and throw players forward particularly if your goal is to win a knockout tournament. Best to keep it tight and fight for every ball like we did, the line up got criticized but I had a feeling going into it that it was the right call. 

[TheGunnShow 5,937]

1 minute ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I am certainly not advocating we have to stick to Plan A and f*** the opposition. That is disrespectful arrogance, and will definitely not get us far, but I felt we have the players to allow us to press and attack the opposition and I have the confidence that our defence and DMs can mop up anything that Germany could give us. Shaw and Trippier were very ineffective in that plan that Southgate came up with. From (poor) memory, in the 1st half, I  think Shaw (with the ball)  got within 20 metres of the German box, only once.

Our plan A may have been scuppered by the Germans but that doesn't mean we start on the defensive, we just need to have a Plan B to take the game to them, if Plan A was scuppered. Like I said before, we need to grow some (tactically) and look to impose ourselves on teams, not look for parity (at best) from the start

I think you might have had a shade too much confidence in the defence, especially as Pickford had to pull two fine saves off and Müller missed a chance he would expect to score most of the time. Pressing and attacking the opposition is precisely what leads to good counters sticking, and as said beforehand, one of Germany's biggest strengths just happens to be the counter-attack.

There's probably an argument that England should have played for the counter a bit more and used that as a means of putting Germany on the back foot. However, good teams find a way to win, and to their credit, England found it tonight.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

9 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Why do I get a feeling this image will be the front page of tommorows Sun/Mail/Express?

Really? Well that will sadder than the picture itself.

[Monty13 2,231]

19 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Like I said, its not what I want from my national team but have to respect the result.

But I can't get excited like the giggly girls on the BBC.

Just my personal opinion but it’s exactly what I want from the national team, to win. Watched us nearly, not quite and also knocked out with ease in my lifetime.

If it was club football I’d agree, I wouldn’t want to watch a clubs philosophy and whole team built around playing this way week in week out.

But when you need to win a handful of games with players that barely play together in a international tournament, personally I just want us to beat the opposition.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

As Ricardo said, Grealish was the difference between the two unimaginative sides.

[Virtual reality 707]

Getting the impression that many on this thread were secretly rooting for Germany! Great result and now the route has opened up all the way to the final. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[TheGunnShow 5,937]

Just now, Monty13 said:

Just my personal opinion but it’s exactly what I want from the national team, to win. Watched us nearly, not quite and also knocked out with ease in my lifetime.

If it was club football I’d agree, I wouldn’t want to watch a clubs philosophy and whole team built around playing this way week in week out.

But when you need to win a handful of games with players that barely play together in a international tournament, personally I just want us to beat the opposition.

Precisely. See most of Italy's title wins for details.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

So we should use plan A of 'attack', and then plan B of 'attack' if that doesn't work? How is that any better than Southgate's plan A that earned us a 2-0 win in a massive match today?

Any manager of that standard should be able to tweak tactics to load the players with different plays to nullify any counter threat  they perceive the opposition to have.

That wasn't a comfortable win, as has already been said Germany could have scored. A better team than Germany could beat that type of performance.  

[BroadstairsR 2,159]

[Crabbycanary3 994]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I think you might have had a shade too much confidence in the defence, especially as Pickford had to pull two fine saves off and Müller missed a chance he would expect to score most of the time. Pressing and attacking the opposition is precisely what leads to good counters sticking, and as said beforehand, one of Germany's biggest strengths just happens to be the counter-attack.

There's probably an argument that England should have played for the counter a bit more and used that as a means of putting Germany on the back foot. However, good teams find a way to win, and to their credit, England found it tonight.

There's nothing wrong in being confident in the defence is there! 😉 

I fundamentally agree with you TGS. Southgate wanted aggressive pressure, but the players did not do that, especially in the first half. 

Germany are a good side with good players. I feel we are better than them, pretty much in all positions

[Crabbycanary3 994]

8 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Got his tactics spot on. Unless you're a clear and obvious class above your opposition it's not a good idea to play attacking, possession based football and throw players forward particularly if your goal is to win a knockout tournament. Best to keep it tight and fight for every ball like we did, the line up got criticized but I had a feeling going into it that it was the right call. 

You are the 1st person I have seen say that CS

I also felt, before kick off, that we were a step above Germany, and with that team selection, there was a real fear that we were already conceding an advantage I felt we held, over a good German team, who could undoubtedly punish you if you didn't play to your best.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,811]

2 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Any manager of that standard should be able to tweak tactics to load the players with different plays to nullify any counter threat  they perceive the opposition to have.

That wasn't a comfortable win, as has already been said Germany could have scored. A better team than Germany could beat that type of performance.  

You can say that about almost any game of football. 'But [losing team] had chances, and [winning team] might lose if they play against a top team who are playing at 100%'.

The fact is, Southgate's gameplan worked and we got a 2-0 win. It's now six clean sheets in a row and we're in a good place right now. Why should we change the tactics now and move towards a more attacking system?

[Mello Yello 2,289]

22 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Why do I get a feeling this image will be the front page of tommorows Sun/Mail/Express?

Merkel's been given another 5 years.....

[ricardo 7,384]

I never doubted Southgate's genius for a second😉👍

[Crabbycanary3 994]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

You can say that about almost any game of football. 'But [losing team] had chances, and [winning team] might lose if they play against a top team who are playing at 100%'.

The fact is, Southgate's gameplan worked and we got a 2-0 win. It's now six clean sheets in a row and we're in a good place right now. Why should we change the tactics now and move towards a more attacking system?

I'm not saying move towards a more attacking system, or go gung ho, I am on about getting the balance right between attacking/pressing and obviously defending, which I felt we had right so far in the tournament. That team selection was a regressive step from previous selections imo. There is no getting away from it being a winning performance, but why should we go back in our shell, when our team (again imo) is a step above the likes of Germany. I felt that Southgate was on the verge of kowtowing to Germany (as opposed to respecting a 'good' team) . I perhaps, had more faith in the players than he did?

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I never doubted Southgate's genius for a second😉👍

Sir Gareth

[Herman 9,754]

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Fair play we turned it on when we needed to, can’t believe it!

I don’t think it was any coincidence that we started to create when Grealish came on… but guess that could’ve been the idea all along? I still would’ve liked to have seen us try to get on the front foot a little more but can’t complain when we’re beating the German’s! 

One thing I would say about us this tournament, although we’ve been pretty dire to watch overall, is how poor and blunt  we’ve made our opposition look - generally. Where in this round of 16 we’ve now seen the Czech’s knock out Netherlands, Croatia put in a hell of a fight against Spain, and Germany who have looked an attacking force offer little to nothing. Sadly in the process of stifling the opposition, we stifle ourselves somewhat, but we’re still doing enough to get our noses infront whilst keeping the other team at arm’s length. 

I do just see the way we’ve approached this tournament as a massive risk in that he’ll have fans on his back as soon as it goes pear shaped, a more freeflowing attacking style and a willingness to play more of our attacking talent would obviously get more people on board and give him more leeway if it goes wrong. Same thing we saw with Hughton really.

But who wouldn’t take 1-0ing our way to the trophy?! 

Annoyingly that tap in for Kane has probably now justified his selection for the rest of the tournament - I personally think we need to just cut our losses, can’t see the tap in transforming him. DCL or Watkins would absolutely offer more IMO.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,811]

3 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I'm not saying move towards a more attacking system, or go gung ho, I am on about getting the balance right between attacking/pressing and obviously defending, which I felt we had right so far in the tournament. That team selection was a regressive step from previous selections imo. There is no getting away from it being a winning performance, but why should we go back in our shell, when our team (again imo) is a step above the likes of Germany. I felt that Southgate was on the verge of kowtowing to Germany (as opposed to respecting a 'good' team) . I perhaps, had more faith in the players than he did?

What was wrong with the balance today? We scored twice and didn't concede any. It was a predominantly defensive performance, yes, but it still provided two goals.

How many did you expect us to beat Germany by, and what do you think the score would have been had we replaced Trippier and Rice with Mount and Grealish?

Edited June 29, 2021 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man