Canaries supporters panel minutes

[TIL 1010 4,722]

 

[Greavsy 2,412]

27 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Just took literally a minute to find that the Trust meeting was scheduled for 16th and the OSP meeting took place on the next night 17th.

Cant let the facts get in the way of a good moan, or chance to attempt to shoot the club down, Tilly!  

[TIL 1010 4,722]

1 hour ago, Greavsy said:

Cant let the facts get in the way of a good moan, or chance to attempt to shoot the club down, Tilly!  

He was spouting off earlier in this thread about the Away membership and that NCFC were the only club to charge £25  in the PL which is not correct and when i said that without looking no further than A for Arsenal in aphabetical order to prove he was wrong he swerved an answer and has now moved on to his latest bee in his bonnet about how the club is run. As i said i get accused of being a Negative Nancy at times but this bloke takes it to a new level.

Edited June 27, 2021 by TIL 1010

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

He was spouting off earlier in this thread about the Away membership and that NCFC were the only club to charge £25  in the PL which is not correct and when i said that without looking no further than A for Arsenal in aphabetical order to prove he was wrong he swerved an answer and has now moved on to his latest bee in his bonnet about how the club is run. As i said i get accused of being a Negative Nancy at times but this bloke takes it to a new level.

You are obviously going to have to up your game then...🤓

[essex canary 492]

On 27/06/2021 at 12:00, Greavsy said:

Cant let the facts get in the way of a good moan, or chance to attempt to shoot the club down, Tilly!  

Interesting that when the file is downloaded it is entitled the 16.6 then it says 17.6 at the top of the file itself.

Maybe they compiled the minutes before the meeting?

[essex canary 492]

On 27/06/2021 at 13:32, TIL 1010 said:

He was spouting off earlier in this thread about the Away membership and that NCFC were the only club to charge £25  in the PL which is not correct and when i said that without looking no further than A for Arsenal in aphabetical order to prove he was wrong he swerved an answer and has now moved on to his latest bee in his bonnet about how the club is run. As i said i get accused of being a Negative Nancy at times but this bloke takes it to a new level.

Arsenal! they sold out their community principles to the Islington set long ago. Their supporters would probably vote for an away members fee of £25,000 if they thought it would take them back to the glory days of 2004. I am sure they travel considerably less miles than NCFC in a typical season.

[essex canary 492]

The other key issue here is the Trusts Memorandum of Understanding with the Club as displayed on the Trust website.

On this basis any supporter who has paid their annual fee to the Trust should reasonably expect the Trust to be the focus of consultation for the issues contained in the Panel's minutes.

[Greavsy 2,412]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

Interesting that when the file is downloaded it is entitled the 16.6 then it says 17.6 at the top of the file itself.

Maybe they compiled the minutes before the meeting?

Maybe they set up the template the day before, so they went into the meeting prepared. 

Will you be posting the replies you get from your enquiries you've no doubt sent to the trust and the football club, at the address provided in this thread, who are both best placed to answer the respective queries you have. 

Im sure many here will be interested to see what's said. 

[ncfcstar 287]

3 hours ago, essex canary said:

Interesting that when the file is downloaded it is entitled the 16.6 then it says 17.6 at the top of the file itself.

Maybe they compiled the minutes before the meeting?

The meeting was on the 17th and the minutes accurately reflect what was discussed in the meeting.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

4 hours ago, essex canary said:

Arsenal! they sold out their community principles to the Islington set long ago. Their supporters would probably vote for an away members fee of £25,000 if they thought it would take them back to the glory days of 2004. I am sure they travel considerably less miles than NCFC in a typical season.

I will take that as an admission Arsenal do in fact charge for Away Membership.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

5 hours ago, essex canary said:

The other key issue here is the Trusts Memorandum of Understanding with the Club as displayed on the Trust website.

On this basis any supporter who has paid their annual fee to the Trust should reasonably expect the Trust to be the focus of consultation for the issues contained in the Panel's minutes.

The Trust are a supporters group who meet with the Club i believe quarterly under the terms of the Memorandum of Understanding and the minutes of those meetings are available to read on their website if their members are so inclined but the new OSP are not a supporters group with a membership. They are elected on a 2 year term of office by votes cast from the fanbase at large including Trust members and the minutes are again available to read by anybody including those Trust members.

Not for the first time i am struggling to see where you are going with all this but as i said sometime ago people who engage with you about NCFC and you know full well who i am talking about here knows that whatever answer you are given never ever meets with your satisfaction and back you come again and again.

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by TIL 1010

[Lessingham Canary 99]

50 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

The Trust are a supporters group who meet with the Club i believe quarterly under the terms of the memorandum of Understanding and the minutes of those meetings are available to read on their website if their members are so inclined but the new OSP are not a supporters group with a membership. They are elected on a 2 year term of office by votes cast from the fanbase at large including Trust members and the minutes are again available to read by anybody include those Trust members.

Not for the first time i am struggling to see where you are going with all this but as i said sometime ago people who engage with you about NCFC and you know full well who i am talking about here knows that whatever answer you are given never ever meets with your satisfaction and back you come again and again.

 

@TIL 1010 has summed up perfectly!

[Diane 500]

On 29/06/2021 at 10:46, essex canary said:

The other key issue here is the Trusts Memorandum of Understanding with the Club as displayed on the Trust website.

On this basis any supporter who has paid their annual fee to the Trust should reasonably expect the Trust to be the focus of consultation for the issues contained in the Panel's minutes.

 

On 29/06/2021 at 15:20, TIL 1010 said:

The Trust are a supporters group who meet with the Club i believe quarterly under the terms of the Memorandum of Understanding and the minutes of those meetings are available to read on their website if their members are so inclined but the new OSP are not a supporters group with a membership. They are elected on a 2 year term of office by votes cast from the fanbase at large including Trust members and the minutes are again available to read by anybody including those Trust members.

Not for the first time i am struggling to see where you are going with all this but as i said sometime ago people who engage with you about NCFC and you know full well who i am talking about here knows that whatever answer you are given never ever meets with your satisfaction and back you come again and again.

 

I'm sure that Essex is very grateful to you for explaining this to him so beautifully Tilly.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

3 hours ago, Diane said:

 

I'm sure that Essex is very grateful to you for explaining this to him so beautifully Tilly.

Don't hold your breath on that Diane. The OSP are responsible to a possible electorate of every Norwich fan but that is a universe away from the numbers the Trust are answerable to.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Don't hold your breath on that Diane. The OSP are responsible to a possible electorate of every Norwich fan but that is a universe away from the numbers the Trust are answerable to.

Yes, I agree that it is good to have two such respected groups that have different but complementary roles to play in the life of the club and its supporters.

[essex canary 492]

On 29/06/2021 at 15:05, TIL 1010 said:

I will take that as an admission Arsenal do in fact charge for Away Membership.

They do on the same basis as almost all other clubs including Norwich City prior to 2 years ago. That basis being that it is a service charge for people who want to go to all, or almost all, games and receive the tickets posted to them. Not exactly the same as what we have now.

Just been reading the 2004 Accounts. Supporters Consultative Committee, 16 members, 7 meetings per year, the Club Chairman heading up the meeting. We had the wheel, why did we let it fall into disrepair then reinvent it but weaker than before?

 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

28 minutes ago, essex canary said:

 

Just been reading the 2004 Accounts. Supporters Consultative Committee, 16 members, 7 meetings per year, the Club Chairman heading up the meeting. We had the wheel, why did we let it fall into disrepair then reinvent it but weaker than before?

 

It  was disbanded by David McNally virtually as soon as he became CEO. Likewise FONCY decided to call it a day as he did nothing but stick obstacles in their way and don't forget he also put a stop to the Club Open Day. Remember also that the Shareholders Association fizzled away to nothing once McNally came into the club.

Munby and Doncaster who ran the Supporters Consultaive Group but left the club just before McNally pitched up and became a one man wrecking ball when it came to supporter consultation.

How is this new OSP ' weaker than before ' ? For goodness sake they have held just the one meeting but obviously you have made your mind up.

Edited July 6, 2021 by TIL 1010

[Greavsy 2,412]

On 29/06/2021 at 11:47, Greavsy said:

Maybe they set up the template the day before, so they went into the meeting prepared. 

Will you be posting the replies you get from your enquiries you've no doubt sent to the trust and the football club, at the address provided in this thread, who are both best placed to answer the respective queries you have. 

Im sure many here will be interested to see what's said. 

@essex canary 

Have you had a reply from the club / Trust to your enquiries as yet? Please do share their comments. 

[Diane 500]

2 hours ago, Greavsy said:

@essex canary 

Have you had a reply from the club / Trust to your enquiries as yet? Please do share their comments. 

The club are still probably wading through all his emails, give them a chance   🤣

[essex canary 492]

4 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

It  was disbanded by David McNally virtually as soon as he became CEO. Likewise FONCY decided to call it a day as he did nothing but stick obstacles in their way and don't forget he also put a stop to the Club Open Day. Remember also that the Shareholders Association fizzled away to nothing once McNally came into the club.

Munby and Doncaster who ran the Supporters Consultaive Group but left the club just before McNally pitched up and became a one man wrecking ball when it came to supporter consultation.

How is this new OSP ' weaker than before ' ? For goodness sake they have held just the one meeting but obviously you have made your mind up.

Well quite. Why does a Board permit a one man wrecking ball to something that is working especially when the individual concerned could have focused on other issues such as the training ground, then pay him a salary equivalent to a top 6 club?

In a sense good to see we have recreated something but a Board member being present would be a very good idea especially considering that when BK was questioned on the away members fee, at one of the consultation meetings, he laid it at the door of the Board.

[Greavsy 2,412]

2 minutes ago, essex canary said:

In a sense good to see we have recreated something but a Board member being present would be a very good idea especially considering that when BK was questioned on the away members fee, at one of the consultation meetings, he laid it at the door of the Board.

Hmmmm, I was at one of the consultation meetings, and BK said nothing of the sort at that one. 

What he did say was that the club needed to bring in £xxxx amount of money (sorry I cannot remember the figures) and if the away members fee was changed, he invited ideas to make the money from elsewhere. 

He also very graciously  held his hand up about the scheme and apologized for the delivery of the scheme, but not that he was trying to raise cash for the club to plug the gap that relegation had caused. 

What about those emails Essex?

[essex canary 492]

3 hours ago, Greavsy said:

@essex canary 

Have you had a reply from the club / Trust to your enquiries as yet? Please do share their comments. 

I had one today. Once more it avoids the issues. I think I just have to accept that the Club has moved on from the declaration that then Chairman Roger Munby made in that 2004 Annual Report to 'put the fan first.'

I don't think the change has been for the better and once again it would seem to derive from delegating everything to whatever officer leader is in place at any one point in time rather than retaining core principles.

 

[Greavsy 2,412]

2 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I had one today. Once more it avoids the issues. I think I just have to accept that the Club has moved on from the declaration that then Chairman Roger Munby made in that 2004 Annual Report to 'put the fan first.'

I don't think the change has been for the better and once again it would seem to derive from delegating everything to whatever officer leader is in place at any one point in time rather than retaining core principles.

 

By 'avoiding the issue' do you mean they didn't give you the answer you wanted? 

You do realise that 2004 was 17 (SEVENTEEN!) years ago. Things change / move on. 

[Commonsense 618]

Things might. Essex canary doesn’t!!!

[essex canary 492]

12 hours ago, Greavsy said:

By 'avoiding the issue' do you mean they didn't give you the answer you wanted? 

You do realise that 2004 was 17 (SEVENTEEN!) years ago. Things change / move on. 

Little Britain got it about right with the 'computer says no' sketch documenting the movement of Customer Services Departments away from the principle of the customer is king.

The Articles of Association still state that shareholders are entitled to 'free full membership of NCFC'. I don't believe the meaning of the word 'full' has changed in the past 17 years though the standard of education may well have done?

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

12 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Little Britain got it about right with the 'computer says no' sketch documenting the movement of Customer Services Departments away from the principle of the customer is king.

The Articles of Association still state that shareholders are entitled to 'free full membership of NCFC'. I don't believe the meaning of the word 'full' has changed in the past 17 years though the standard of education may well have done?

I haven't been following this, so have no idea what point is being made, but presumably the significant first question is not what is meant legally by 'full' but what is meant legally by 'membership', full or otherwise. As a shareholder myself I have no idea.

Edited July 7, 2021 by PurpleCanary

[GMF 736]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I haven't been following this, so have no idea what point is being made, but presumably the significant first question is not what is meant legally by 'full' but what is meant legally by 'membership', full or otherwise. As a shareholder myself I have no idea.

I’ve tried following too, but I’m equally confused 🤔 

A couple of observations.

When the free membership was offered as part of the 2002 share offer, it’s my understanding that it was actually the first time that the benefit was offered. (I’m sure others will correct me if that was not the case).

At the time Club only had a home membership scheme and, personally, I’m struggling to see how anyone could now argue that, by implication, the original benefit could now also be extended to include the new away membership scheme?

Also, back then, the Club had considerably fewer season ticket holders than now. I also suspect that the vast majority of fans who purchased shares did so to put money into the Club, rather than specifically to utilise the new benefit.

The subsequent increases in both the number of STH and shareholders actually meant that very few fans actually took up the free membership offer. I’ve no idea how many actually utilise it today?

Of course, should the OSP take an alternative view and decide that Essex has an arguable case, they’ll doubtless take a matter up with the Club on his behalf 😉

[TIL 1010 4,722]

I wonder where the goalposts will be moved to today ?

[essex canary 492]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I haven't been following this, so have no idea what point is being made, but presumably the significant first question is not what is meant legally by 'full' but what is meant legally by 'membership', full or otherwise. As a shareholder myself I have no idea.

Quite. Given the Clubs commitment to transparency, as shareholders we should be able to understand item 8 of their Articles of Association filing at Companies House on 16 December 2020 yet we cannot. Perhaps members of the Supporters Panel can help us?

As a supporter who attended 13 of the 19 away games prior to lockdown, as things stand I am giving up and I will spend awaydays next season at either Cambridge United or King's Lynn. 

I provided a paper intended for subsequent submission to the Supporters Panel on the wider issues of the away member scheme plus another matter on 13 April. I would hope it has been passed on to Panel members.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

56 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Quite. Given the Clubs commitment to transparency, as shareholders we should be able to understand item 8 of their Articles of Association filing at Companies House on 16 December 2020 yet we cannot. Perhaps members of the Supporters Panel can help us?

As a supporter who attended 13 of the 19 away games prior to lockdown, as things stand I am giving up and I will spend awaydays next season at either Cambridge United or King's Lynn. 

I provided a paper intended for subsequent submission to the Supporters Panel on the wider issues of the away member scheme plus another matter on 13 April. I would hope it has been passed on to Panel members.

No joy with the Trust then which you said you were a member of ?