England V Czechia

[cambridgeshire canary 6,716]

What are your predictions? And don't worry, I made Southgates dream team for him

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

What are your predictions? And don't worry, I made Southgates dream team for him

The line of 3 need to to sit deeper than that but otherwise that’s quite good. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Got turgid draw all over it for me as England have already qualified. Can't decide between 0-0 and 1-1. I think I'll go 1-1 where England are consistently a step ahead for large swathes of the match, but a lapse of concentration lets the Czechs in.

[Bonzo 198]

My predictions:

1. Southgate will continue to be frightened of his own shadow.

2. If they lose then Kane will be scapegoated for not running in behind more.

3. Southgate will play as many holding mids as he can find.

4. Phillips will start.

5. Grealish wont start.

6. The aim will be to pass the ball backwards and sideways and anyone who passes it forwards will be subbed. 

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

As long as Southgate assertively claps all sides of the stadium at the final whistle in celebration mode that’s fine by me.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

Not going to be popular opinion but I think the Czech’s might come away with all 3 points tonight. Gave Scotland a better game than we did! And bar the first 10 mins against Croatia, we have looked absolutely turgid considering the talent we have - just look at Italy in comparison and how quickly they look to win the ball back, keeping on the front foot for the whole 90mins (yes, it CAN be done!) with forward thinking players that play with zip and aggression. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

1 minute ago, Alex Moss said:

Not going to be popular opinion but I think the Czech’s might come away with all 3 points tonight. Gave Scotland a better game than we did! And bar the first 10 mins against Croatia, we have looked absolutely turgid considering the talent we have - just look at Italy in comparison and how quickly they look to win the ball back, keeping on the front foot for the whole 90mins (yes, it CAN be done!) with forward thinking players that play with zip and aggression. 

Southgate will attack in the knockout stages but only if we’re a goal behind going into injury time.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

3 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Not going to be popular opinion but I think the Czech’s might come away with all 3 points tonight. Gave Scotland a better game than we did! And bar the first 10 mins against Croatia, we have looked absolutely turgid considering the talent we have - just look at Italy in comparison and how quickly they look to win the ball back, keeping on the front foot for the whole 90mins (yes, it CAN be done!) with forward thinking players that play with zip and aggression. 

Possible, they did beat England 2-1 in the qualifiers in Prague, and seem far better compared to the shower that got planted 5-0 at Wembley in same qualifiers.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

3 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Southgate will attack in the knockout stages but only if we’re a goal behind going into injury time.

 

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Possible, they did beat England 2-1 in the qualifiers in Prague, and seem far better compared to the shower that got planted 5-0 at Wembley in same qualifiers.

I just fail to see how Gareth Southgate can’t watch from the sidelines and not think to himself that constant sideways passing neither draws the opposition out and creates space, nor will it cause panic and confusion at the back which is what leads to most goals. Whoever we face has all the time in the world to keep their shape, it’s not even an effort for them. It is utter sheite stuff and is completely embarrassing. We have as much talent at that tournament as anyone capable of taking on players in numbers, the old excuse that we’re technically inferior just doesn’t ring true anymore I’m afraid. I’d sack him after the tournament unless he starts to show more intent beginning tonight. We’d win that tournament with Roberto Mancini in charge.

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

5 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

 

I just fail to see how Gareth Southgate can’t watch from the sidelines and not think to himself that constant sideways passing neither draws the opposition out and creates space, nor will it cause panic and confusion at the back which is what leads to most goals. Whoever we face has all the time in the world to keep their shape, it’s not even an effort for them. It is utter sheite stuff and is completely embarrassing. We have as much talent at that tournament as anyone capable of taking on players in numbers, the old excuse that we’re technically inferior just doesn’t ring true anymore I’m afraid. I’d sack him after the tournament unless he starts to show more intent beginning tonight. We’d win that tournament with Roberto Mancini in charge.

It’s that’s bad that even Chris Hughton would set up to attack from the off against a Southgate X1.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Midlands Yellow

[Indy 3,298]

I believe the Czechs won’t want to finish top as who wins will face one of Portugal, Germany or France at Wembley, Second is the better position where the likelihood is a less ranked team, but played in Copenhagen. I can see a 2-0 win to England.

[Crafty Canary 495]

Watching England’s performance against Scotland reminded me of season1 Farkeball.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

It’s that’s bad that even Chris Hughton would set up to attack from the off against a Southgate X1.

Ha ha the sad thing is you’re not wrong, MY. It is THAT bad. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

1 minute ago, Crafty Canary said:

Watching England’s performance against Scotland reminded me of season1 Farkeball.

Which would be alright if we played the second half of the tournament in 2022/23, Crafty!

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

15 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

 

I just fail to see how Gareth Southgate can’t watch from the sidelines and not think to himself that constant sideways passing neither draws the opposition out and creates space, nor will it cause panic and confusion at the back which is what leads to most goals. Whoever we face has all the time in the world to keep their shape, it’s not even an effort for them. It is utter sheite stuff and is completely embarrassing. We have as much talent at that tournament as anyone capable of taking on players in numbers, the old excuse that we’re technically inferior just doesn’t ring true anymore I’m afraid. I’d sack him after the tournament unless he starts to show more intent beginning tonight. We’d win that tournament with Roberto Mancini in charge.

I disagree with the last bit. If Mancini were in charge that England side would look bloody entertaining, but get beat 4-2 by the first genuinely quality side they faced (France, Italy, Belgium, Germany for sure, and probably Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands too) and not a Croatia side that's three years past its best.

People really have forgotten how shockingly bad some of the defending in the qualifiers was. Go back to both games against Kosovo. Even when they won 4-0 in Prishtina, the Kosovans could easily have had two or three themselves, not to mention the 5-3 when they did, and as far as European sides go, they're bang average. Passionate as a new country, but absolutely bang average.

My suspicion is that Southgate's playing this way as he knows he's missing arguably his key defender in Maguire (not to mention his main set-piece threat) and arguably his key defensive midfielder in Henderson. If England keep the ball, the other team aren't scoring. Worked well enough for Farke when he bedded his team in, even if we could have been sponsored by a computer company with all the binary scorelines that came up.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

5 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I disagree with the last bit. If Mancini were in charge that England side would look bloody entertaining, but get beat 4-2 by the first genuinely quality side they faced (France, Italy, Belgium, Germany for sure, and probably Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands too) and not a Croatia side that's three years past its best.

People really have forgotten how shockingly bad some of the defending in the qualifiers was. Go back to both games against Kosovo. Even when they won 4-0 in Prishtina, the Kosovans could easily have had two or three themselves, not to mention the 5-3 when they did, and as far as European sides go, they're bang average. Passionate as a new country, but absolutely bang average.

My suspicion is that Southgate's playing this way as he knows he's missing arguably his key defender in Maguire (not to mention his main set-piece threat) and arguably his key defensive midfielder in Henderson. If England keep the ball, the other team aren't scoring. Worked well enough for Farke when he bedded his team in, even if we could have been sponsored by a computer company with all the binary scorelines that came up.

I guess it’s all subjective Gunny, because on the flip side I see no reason why we couldn’t be the team handing out a 4-2 given the talent we have going forward. There are goals in that England team in spades featuring starting world class talents from Man City, Chelsea, and other top drawer elite clubs. It’s not like we have dreadful players at the back either when you look at the squad list. Most are more than capable of playing at the highest level, and do. Put it this way, I wouldn’t mind seeing a bit more of a happy medium than outright pragmatism. Our style is all wrong thus far.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

3 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I guess it’s all subjective Gunny, because on the flip side I see no reason why we couldn’t be the team handing out a 4-2 given the talent we have going forward. There are goals in that England team in spades featuring starting world class talents from Man City, Chelsea, and other top drawer elite clubs. It’s not like we have dreadful players at the back either when you look at the squad list. Most are more than capable of playing at the highest level, and do. Put it this way, I wouldn’t mind seeing a bit more of a happy medium than outright pragmatism. Our style is all wrong thus far.

I see it a bit differently as whilst there is more English talent playing at the highest level, they're not star players in the teams that are. They're good squad players, or in Mount's case, having a breakout season so potentially quite close. In Grealish's case, he's a star player, but in an average Premier League side that has the potential to crack the top six this upcoming season.

Much of this rests on a definition of world class. I suspect mine is more stringent than most. I also maintain that Southgate's style is bang on considering the stature of the players missing and the need to get through the group, as the fact they have qualified after two games amply demonstrates.

Edited June 22, 2021 by TheGunnShow

[norfolkngood 1,087]

i think Southgate is trying a very Dangerous Game 

i think he thinks we have to peak at latter stages so playing it very very safe 

he has done the job to get us through the group stage but will he find anything when he puts his foot to the pedal ? 

i think this is where he will fail 

i think other teams have gone out full pelt and getting results and playing well that will breed confidence 

England have been not playing well and within themselves and to go from that to a attacking team scoring goals is hard to see 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

Just now, TheGunnShow said:

I see it a bit differently as whilst there is more English talent playing at the highest level, they're not star players in the teams that are. They're good squad players, or in Mount's case, having a breakout season so potentially quite close. In Grealish's case, he's a star player, but in an average Premier League side that has the potential to crack the top six this upcoming season.

Much of this rests on a definition of world class. I suspect mine is more stringent than most.

Well it depends on your definition of world class. There’s obviously the elite 2 in Ronaldo and Messi, but looking at a large pool from various nations below, then yes I consider the likes of Sterling and Foden to be up there. Harry Kane is considered to be one of the very best strikers in the world so he goes into that category too. Grealish you’ve noted, and then we have some great players from Chelsea - different positions but Mount is playing at a better level for his club than Timo Werner. Italy, who I cited in particular, are not what you’d call a star studded side, in fact many of them are not that well known at all outside Serie A. For that reason, I feel confident a Roberto Mancini in charge for instance would be far better than Gareth Southgate. We are simply not playing as well as what we should do given the players at our disposal. It’s been enough so far but won’t be soon I feel.

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I see it a bit differently as whilst there is more English talent playing at the highest level, they're not star players in the teams that are. They're good squad players, or in Mount's case, having a breakout season so potentially quite close. In Grealish's case, he's a star player, but in an average Premier League side that has the potential to crack the top six this upcoming season.

Much of this rests on a definition of world class. I suspect mine is more stringent than most. I also maintain that Southgate's style is bang on considering the stature of the players missing and the need to get through the group, as the fact they have qualified after two games amply demonstrates.

Southgate’s style is bang on! now that is stretching it. England do have a squad of players good enough to play some very expansive football. Joint 2nd favourites to win this tournament but looking so scared so far against very modest opposition.

In the knockout stages our strategy has to change or the end result once again is very predictable. 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

5 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Well it depends on your definition of world class. There’s obviously the elite 2 in Ronaldo and Messi, but looking at a large pool from various nations below, then yes I consider the likes of Sterling and Foden to be up there. Harry Kane is considered to be one of the very best strikers in the world so he goes into that category too. Grealish you’ve noted, and then we have some great players from Chelsea - different positions but Mount is playing at a better level for his club than Timo Werner. Italy, who I cited in particular, are not what you’d call a star studded side, in fact many of them are not that well known at all outside Serie A. For that reason, I feel confident a Roberto Mancini in charge for instance would be far better than Gareth Southgate. We are simply not playing as well as what we should do given the players at our disposal. It’s been enough so far but won’t be soon I feel.

No Striker and Forward can Score Goals with the Service the England team have been Giving  

Why oh Why they do not play the Premiership way that these players are comfortable with 

 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

13 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I also maintain that Southgate's style is bang on considering the stature of the players missing and the need to get through the group, as the fact they have qualified after two games amply demonstrates.

Just to respond to the edited part that wasn’t in the original quote I initially quoted -

I am pretty confident if you were to go to the pub after the Scotland game and ask the punters if they thought England’s style was ‘bang on’, then the vast majority would be finishing you a very funny look indeed.

And you mention we’re doing alright considering the players we’re missing, I can’t think of one that is anymore world class if you like that the ones we already have at our disposal. TAA for example wasn’t exactly impressive this season, and Harry Maguire is no more in the world class bracket than any of the others we have other than I suppose Mings.

[Bonzo 198]

The England team against Scotland had 6 players who have played in a Champions league final (5 this year).

If that isn't world class I don't know what is.

The problem is their gutless manager.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

1 minute ago, norfolkngood said:

No Striker and Forward can Score Goals with the Service the England team have been Giving  

Why oh Why they do not play the Premiership way that these players are comfortable with 

 

Exactly, NFNGD! Largely my point 👍

The bottom line is we might have done enough so far against far from world class sides, but unless Southgate lets our talented forward players off the leash with a bit of one touch zip and aggression then we will do squat this tournament! 

[sonyc 5,517]

1 hour ago, Bonzo said:

The aim will be to pass the ball backwards and sideways and anyone who passes it forwards will be subbed.

This was the famous 'crab formation' 🦀 used by successive England managers in the 80s especially. Not to keep the ball or to tire the opposition but more a necessity for lack of options. The sideways passes were a delight to the eye. How we purred at those moves à la Butch Wilkins and Robbo. Occasionally that old trojan Butcher would join in if you recall.

Southgate obviously has watched our videos from this vintage period in preparation for the Scotland match. He is no fool and Southgate knows the strategy can take you deep into the tournament (well...the quarters anyway) but the further you go you come across teams who work out how to tackle the crab.

I'm really hoping for a 0-0 or if we are lucky a hard-fought 1-1.

😜

Edited June 22, 2021 by sonyc

[Alex Moss 2,165]

2 minutes ago, Bonzo said:

The England team against Scotland had 6 players who have played in a Champions league final (5 this year).

If that isn't world class I don't know what is.

The problem is their gutless manager.

Yup. We certainly do have world class players as you’ve illustrated, in fact I’d say even if it’s a breakout season then you don’t get into a Man City or Chelsea side unless you have world class ability. It doesn’t really get any higher than that bar Ronaldo and Messi.

It doesn’t matter who we play next round, tonight we need to start playing at another level, because right now I doubt there’s many England players feeling confident we’re bringing the thing home as the way things stand.

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

If Southgate was available for a club job not one Premier league club would touch him. Thinking about it not many if any Championship clubs would would be chomping at the bit to talk to him. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

5 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

If Southgate was available for a club job not one Premier league club would touch him. Thinking about it not many if any Championship clubs would would be chomping at the bit to talk to him. 

Nice bloke for sure, no doubt about that, but I don’t really remember him doing anything at club level, surely he had success at one of those he managed? Palace, Boro etc?

[Jim Smith 2,317]

We are through. There is no pressure on us. Kane needs a goal to get going. This is a great chhance for Southgate to take the shackles off and send them out with a real attacking mindset. 

Pickford

James Mings Stones Trippier

Rice Henderson

Foden Grealish Sterling

Kane

[cambridgeshire canary 6,716]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

We are through. There is no pressure on us. Kane needs a goal to get going. This is a great chhance for Southgate to take the shackles off and send them out with a real attacking mindset. 

Pickford

James Mings Stones Trippier

Rice Henderson

Foden Grealish Sterling

Kane

Southgate with an attacking mindset? Pass me the blunt