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Canary Boy

Who is on the fence?

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Ok everyone, there are many of us out there who want Nigel Worthington

out, and there are many of us who would like to give him more of a

chance after the success he has brought to Norwich.

I for one cannot decide....is there anyone else like me? I must admit,

I don''t like Norwich''s passing game one bit (or lack of it) and giving

the ball away cheaply is something else that grates on me. Nigel does

seem a very positive guy, his heart is with Norwich City and he

despirately wants the team to do well. It''s the players who are at

fault for not passing the ball properly. I have heard Nigel say several

times this season that the players perform well on the training ground,

passing the ball round well like they should, but when it comes to the

game, it all goes to pot! Is that Nigel''s fault? Maybe, maybe not.

I know many want Nigel out but those who do went very quiet when we

went on that 5 game winning streak at Christmas. Everyone thought this

was it. We''ve slipped again. I would give Nigel till the end of the

season to get something out of the players and then if no progress

forward has been made, then thank him for his hard work and commitment

and then look for another manager. Let''s face it, we are not going to

go up now so Nigel might as well finish the job this season.

Anyone else feel like adding....?

Please discuss.

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[quote user="Canary Boy"]Ok everyone, there are many of us out there who want Nigel Worthington out, and there are many of us who would like to give him more of a chance after the success he has brought to Norwich.

I for one cannot decide....is there anyone else like me? I must admit, I don''t like Norwich''s passing game one bit (or lack of it) and giving the ball away cheaply is something else that grates on me. Nigel does seem a very positive guy, his heart is with Norwich City and he despirately wants the team to do well. It''s the players who are at fault for not passing the ball properly. I have heard Nigel say several times this season that the players perform well on the training ground, passing the ball round well like they should, but when it comes to the game, it all goes to pot! Is that Nigel''s fault? Maybe, maybe not.

I know many want Nigel out but those who do went very quiet when we went on that 5 game winning streak at Christmas. Everyone thought this was it. We''ve slipped again. I would give Nigel till the end of the season to get something out of the players and then if no progress forward has been made, then thank him for his hard work and commitment and then look for another manager. Let''s face it, we are not going to go up now so Nigel might as well finish the job this season.

Anyone else feel like adding....?

Please discuss.

[/quote]

we had a blip in december, but in rerality even plymouth went 5 few games unbeaton...  a false dawn i am afraid....[:(]

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*holds hand up* Yup, the wooden splinters in my derier would suggest that I am still a fence-sitter, but I must admit to retaining a slight leaning towards replacing our manager (only slightly though - I''m clinging to the faint hope that it''s all going to come good, but this hope diminishes after every poor showing...)

As City fans, we''re all well versed in both victories and losses, but it would appear that people just aren''t willing to put up with poor performances that fall below a satisfactory standard - which is understandable, and certainly explains people being up in arms...

*keeps fingers crossed for Worthers...* Come on Worthers, sort it out (either way) so that we can all unite behind the team again...

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[quote user="Canary Boy"]

I know many want Nigel out but those who do went very quiet when we

went on that 5 game winning streak at Christmas. Everyone thought this

was it. We''ve slipped again. I would give Nigel till the end of the

season to get something out of the players and then if no progress

forward has been made, then thank him for his hard work and commitment

and then look for another manager. Let''s face it, we are not going to

go up now so Nigel might as well finish the job this season.

Anyone else feel like adding....?

Please discuss.

[/quote]with city winning 5 on the bounce, of course many outers chose not to campaign intensively against nigel, becuase after all we are city supporters and want to see the team do well as much as the anybody else does. sure we got to within a few points of the play-offs and it began to look promising.  to say everybody thought ''this was it'' is a generalisation - i was hoping and never confident, possibly because i still didn''t have confidence in the manager.   i would like to see worthy go now, giving a new manger time to bed in a team that will be gelled and ready to start the next season with confidence and a realistic hope of going up. 

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I am undecided. There is nothing i can say to defend worthington this season, awful transfers and poor results. but at the same time he took us to the premiership and that doesnt happen with luck. I think i would like to see new coaching staff first before getting Nigel out

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I must admit to joining you. Whilst I desperately want rid of Worthington who I believe has become incredibly lazy and head-strong, I am very aware of "better the devil you know".

God knows who we''ll get in, and even if they were successful before, they may not be again.

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Would we seriously have to get somebody in if he were removed? Why not

simply appoint a caretaker until the end of the season? If Worthy is

forced to leave or resigns, why not let David Williams take the helm

and see if he can at least get them playing again.

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The power to rise above the whole force of circumstances, to remain unbiased in the extremes of victory or defeat, to persevere in the teeth of diaster, to greet returning fortune with a cool eye, to have faith in men after repeated betrayals, will raise Worthington back to hero status again.

I have always been on the fence. And am willing to stick with Worthington for the rest of this season. He has suffered a torrid year. The players have let him, the fans and themselves down on far too many occasions. I will even give him the summer to sort out the mess he created last summer. And I will be judge him on next season.

If you were to write out our current squad and compare it, on paper, with the one which won promotion as champions, it looks at least as good as, if not better. Sadly, none of Huckerby, Fleming, Green, Drury,  and McKenzie have performed at the level they did that season. The Gary Holt replacement, Andy Hughes is at least as good as Holt was that season. Dickson Etuhu could be the new Damien Francis one day, personally I think his problem is one of mental preparation (which encompasses commitment and desire), and IF he can get his mentality right, he could be a force. Safri surpasses Mulryne as a mifielder. Doherty is passable as a new Malky technically, although lacks the braveheart qualities. Earnshaw is better than Svensson and Mckenzie. The only position arguably we are worse in is at right back. I haven''t mentioned a right midfielder as we got promoted without one. The makings of the side is there. Worthington needs to add some quality down the right hand side, and start getting the best out of our players. If he can''t do that next season, then he will have reached the end. But if he could get the best out of a capable but unspectacular squad before, built on a solid defence then why not again?. So whatever the problem has been this season concerning the consistent no shows by some players, he must sort it. Decide who he wants to build a team around, ship out the wasters, which has started with Jim Brennen going, and build from a solid core with youngsters supporting. 

Personally, I think the only way to sort it, is to sell the underperforming Darren Huckerby. He hasn''t delivered this season. He has been a passenger far too often. He exposes us defensively. If he isn''t scoring or creating goals, he is a liability. If Worthington wanted to get back to basics - then either sell Huckerby, or use him as a sub, and get back to the two flat lines of four in front of Green. Being solid in this division is a top 10 finish. Quality with being solid is a top 6 finish and better.

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i made a similar post only earlier today - im still WO but i don''t see a coherent argument for putting immediate pressure on a new manager. give him til the end of the season but then definitely look for a new manager. i dont care how good we are on the training ground, the pitch is where it counts and if worthless is incapable of providing adequate motivation then he is no good in charge of our team.

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Hi Canary Boy I think your stance is one shared by many intelligent football fans at Carrow Road.

As some people may recall I have relentlessly given my backing to Worthy throughout the campaign ... why?

Well 1. the past IS important because it shows credentials and also indicates that the set up deserves respect, patience and loyalty 2. so many teams struggle to bounce back to the top league or even perform well in their post relegation year 3. compared to where we were throughout Division One I am eternally grateful for the work done by all to make us a big Championship side with big names ... there were many occassions in Division One when I thought it would never happen.

However, I am not afraid to say that after watching recent performances, and Ipswich in particular, I have lost a lot of confidence - have things gone stale? Could a new man (I like the idea of Mark Bowen) shake things up, kick out the Worthy bought deadwood and frighten the favourites into having to prove themselves all over again to get in the new team line-up? The passing has gone, the passion and fire has gone and we are swamped with some appalling players that just don''t look up to it and have clearly signed their contracts to jump on the ''Norwich-City-were-on-Match-Of-The-Day'' bandwagon - and they were all signed by Worthy. To see the team so devoid of ideas and doing some of the really simple things so poorly HAS to raise serious questions.

I will remain loyal but I am not blind and my patience pot is not bottomless.

------------------------------------------------------------

Support the team when the team most needs your support

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Well said Konstantin Pobedonostsev...this is why I stay on this forum.

Well thought out posts by true Norwich City fans that think alike.

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I''ve been supporting Worthy throughout the season, until Sunday.I can''t call for his head, yet, but the fence is an uncomfortable seat. I''m looking to hop off it, on one side or the other, with about 8 games to go. Either Worthy will have initiated the longed-for improvement in passing, or there''ll be no change (worse, a deterioration!). If it''s the latter, I''d be in favour of sounding out replacements, with a caretaker in place temporarily, so they could watch the remaining games of this season to get an idea of which players they''d like to change!Ouch! Those splinters!

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[quote user="Fat Barman"]I''ve been supporting Worthy throughout the season, until Sunday.

I can''t call for his head, yet, but the fence is an uncomfortable seat. I''m looking to hop off it, on one side or the other, with about 8 games to go. Either Worthy will have initiated the longed-for improvement in passing, or there''ll be no change (worse, a deterioration!). If it''s the latter, I''d be in favour of sounding out replacements, with a caretaker in place temporarily, so they could watch the remaining games of this season to get an idea of which players they''d like to change!

Ouch! Those splinters!
[/quote]

if there is any deteriation from how we have been playing recently then its relegation time im afraid...  Its not gonna happen, but we have some tough away games left...

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I''m on the fence. I don''t think sacking Worthy would necessarily solve any of our problems, (sacking managers rarely has as positive an effect on a team than standing by them through thick and thin) and think he is only partly to blame for what has been going on this season, but if Norwich stood a chance of getting the right man in at the right time as a replacement, then I would probably welcome such a move. Most of the names mentioned on this board so far, though (Newell, Holloway etc.), do not instil me with great confidence if this is the best that can be offered as a replacement.

Currently, its not possible to air any opinion without being shunted into either the ''WO'' or ''KTF'' groups, meaning that you can''t put forward a balanced view anymore. Hence I haven''t posted a message on here for ages. I could name the people who have made me feel my comments are unwelcome, but this would be hypocritical, so instead I would like to say thankyou to the people who have persevered in giving their balanced opinions on this board, in the face of much polemical ranting, people like: Trent Canary, Matt Hudson, Rudolph Hucker

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Good post Canary Boy, for me the situation is as follows - I am a positive person, I love NCFC, I enjoy going to matches and I will continue to be a NCFC season ticket holder, regardless of the league we are in untill it is no longer possible for me to attend (which hopefully is a good few years away yet). On the reverse side, over the last 18 months the standard of football has detoriated, the mood/morale of the squad has got worse, the quality of some of the players coming in is a matter of debate, and the relationship between the club and supporters has become strained, because of all of this I feel it is time for a change. I do think that NW has earned the right to be judged at the end of the season, anything less than a play off place or evidence of a consistent improvement in tactics/performances then I feel it is time for a change.

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[quote user="Kolin Kob"]

I''m on the fence. I don''t think sacking Worthy would necessarily solve any of our problems, (sacking managers rarely has as positive an effect on a team than standing by them through thick and thin) and think he is only partly to blame for what has been going on this season, but if Norwich stood a chance of getting the right man in at the right time as a replacement, then I would probably welcome such a move. Most of the names mentioned on this board so far, though (Newell, Holloway etc.), do not instil me with great confidence if this is the best that can be offered as a replacement.

Currently, its not possible to air any opinion without being shunted into either the ''WO'' or ''KTF'' groups, meaning that you can''t put forward a balanced view anymore. Hence I haven''t posted a message on here for ages. I could name the people who have made me feel my comments are unwelcome, but this would be hypocritical, so instead I would like to say thankyou to the people who have persevered in giving their balanced opinions on this board, in the face of much polemical ranting, people like: Trent Canary, Matt Hudson, Rudolph Hucker

[/quote]

Mike Newells managerial record is pretty good [:)],    [8-|] Hucker is a wind up merchant!!  lol i like his post pub posts however!!! [B][B][B][B][B]

Mike Newell''s managerial career

TeamFromToGamesWonLostDrawn
Luton 23-06-2003 Present  142684133
Hartlepool 21-11-2002 30-05-2003 291379

Nigel Worthington''s managerial career

TeamFromToGamesWonLostDrawn
Norwich 04-12-2000 Present  2541029458
Blackpool 08-07-1997 23-12-1999 134445634

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I''m not on either side of the fence...........I''m currently bangin'' me head against a brick wall with frustration

Personally, with all the evidence of the last 18+ months under the management of Nigel and Co - footbaling wise we have not progressed one iota! Yes, the ground and facilities are superb. Colney is a training area many Prem sides would be envious of. But, we are a mediocre underachieving ''footballing?'' side - at this moment in time! Any positives or progress? Not really, loaning average players to the extent we have this season - isn''t ambition in my eyes!.......5 game unbeaten run during December 05, yahoo!'' But, it isn''t consistency is it. I''m so fed up with the excuses churned out from the club, management, players and its media.......88 Injuries, showers too cold, tea urn at Colney fuse blown, studs or blades? ''Strains, pains and ''ave yer seen our latest automobiles?''  Pigeons and Seagulls distracting us on the pitch and those pre-match brightly coloured balloons going scarey ''pop!'', pitch surface too good to play cloggin'' & hoofin footie on! Not enough helium in match balls, resulting in balls premature re-entry from troposphere before Norwich forwards can get into the opposition''s box.....blah, blah, yadda, yadda, etc, etc........Doin'' it the Charlton way? Draping a few strands of hair across a balding pate trying to conceal the inevitable! When and where will it all end?

Togetherfullness, Kissy Kissy Licky Skin, "Hello Delia Darlink! Mwah, Mwah!" Onwards and upwards, Prudence with Ambition, It''s just a blip/minor setback, World''s best supporter''s, Be bold be brave, Results will come, We''ve turned the corner, Patience, Passin'' the ball, get closer, work ethic, Someone''s in for a spankin'', "Let''s ''hic'' be ''burp'' ''avin you!", We feel the same hurt/pain as the fans............BLEURGH!!!  It''s all PANTS!

Accountability and responsibility.........Has anyone taken that? Where''s the buck stop? Doris the tea lady? 

You either want the manager in or out! Not: "I used to be indecisive.......now I''m not so sure!"........

I want change! And I want it NOW!  If you want things to continue as they are.........that''s your choice! ;~) LIVID!

     

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This is a fascinating and provacative thread and it is unusual for a thread to be both at the moment.  I am very much aligned with the Zipper/Gazza view that the club is on a dangerous downward spiral and something must be done.  NOW if not sooner!!!!!

Now, that something could be organic development within the club.  If Worthy can turn this round then I can forgive his failings over the last 18 months and enjoy the renewed good times.  I thought in December that he had found the key but "One on the Chin" for Worthy Outers became a sledgehammer in the guts for all City fans.

Perhaps with the return from injury of many players and the new signings, it can be turned round.   Most serious problems require the sufferer to hit rock bottom, acknowledge the problem and start to resolve it.   Now I''m not comparing a the tribulations of a football team to something as serious as say alcoholism but the basic process of denial, acknowledegement and recovery is similiar.

The players must know how badly they''ve performed and how the fans feel about that.  They know Worthy''s job is under threat.  A reaction is likely but when and how remains unclear.

What concerns me is that there may be a revival but will it remedy the underlying problems?.  Let me add some which don''t get an aiirng often enough alongside the givens like no right midfield and excessive loyalty to underperformers.

  • Why can''t we defend corners?  Hardly a new problem and surely something coaches can work on as it is a specific predictable event.
  • Why do we concede goals from direct free kicks so often?
  • Why do we never score form direct free kicks.
  • Why can we not break teams down e.g Fulham at home last season and Reading at home this season.? Once we get behind we are too easy to shut out.
  • Why can we not sit on a lead?  Compare West Ham at Arsenal recently with us at home to Man City and Blackburn!
  • Why do our throw ins never threaten?

 

These are all coaching issues.  The answer lies in the coaching.  We could live without a specialist right winger if the team was properly organised   Hucks would not be a luxury if the team has shape and style to accomodate him.   Even Hughes has positives not least being his left foot which put in some good crosses on Sunday but these are lost in the morass of mediocrity out there. Coaching should be achieving the best from each player for the team.  Not at FCR since promotion has it been possible to identify that happening.

The point is that the squad we have, for all its failings, has more than enough to be a force in this league.  Set aside injuries and oter temporary issues and it is down to coaching.  Now Worthy can put that right or someone esle can.  I can accept that he has earned the chance to put it right but he must change things or accept the consequences.  He is tied into his coaching staff and they are failing.  He will fail with them.

Personally, I think it is all over.  I don''t feel that Worthy has the flexibilty or even the selfawareness to admit and deal with his failings.  I don''t know the man and could be wrong but nothing he has ever said has hinted at these qualities.

If Worthy and the players have hit skid row and are willing and able to pull it round then good.  I want City to be successful.  I don''t want to see Worthy go for the sake of it.  If he is not willing to confront the issues then decent man and loyal servant as he undoubtedly is, he must go.

BUT, they all must go.  Foley and Livermore are as much in it as Worthy and no new manager is going to change things.

I don''t think we should wait till the end of the season.  I accept that we wilo because the Board cannot sack him now without huge loss of face.  That will  not happen.  But the new man needs to work with tese players and a few games at the end of the season would be ideal.

Who.....for me David Williams and Mark Bowen but there are plenty of other candidates.

I sit on the fence in the sense that I can accept Worthy turning it around however unlikely I consider that to be.  I do not want him sacked as a punishment for past failures.  I don''t want him or the coaches to stay unless they can demonstrate that they have a plan to move this club forward.

And for the avoidance of doubt.........Hopefully we can work hard and resolve this situation hopefully and hopefully win some games hopefully to hopefully progress this clubto a different and hopefully better situation......is not a plan!!!!!!!!!!

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I would say I am on the fence because if a better manager could be brought in I would probably say go for it! But being realistic and having stuck by Worthington this far I don''t see the harm in giving him a chance of fighting and getting this ship up and ready again.No its not right to use his previous success as the ONLY reason for backing him but nor is it right to suggest that it SHOULD  not be used to support the case.If you look at what Roy Blower said as representative for the supposed "official" fans group said before during and after the "blip" you will see it mirrors most of the slaters on here which goes a bit like this:Worthington is rubbish he cant put together a sentance let alone a football team!Shef utd winOoh er, we didn''t say he was a bad manager or that he should go - we just said the performances needed to get better!RecentlyEr we never said he was a good manager - lets get rid of him.The fact of the matter is the moaners tend to be NCFC extremists! The only way we would get them not to moan is if we won every match at least t 6-0, one the milk cup, the championship, the euefa cup, champions league and african nations cup all in one season.So in other words never.They think relegation is down to him last season when the fact of the matter was we did not have the transfer budget available to bring in enough quality to keep us up. Ashton was never going to be enough by himself. The board planned ahead and tried to settle the ship financialy why we could.It was always going to be tough - West Ham and Wigan have both spent more before and after on their promotion than we did so comparisons should not be drawn when you consider that they have more money backing them.

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how patronising to suggest that worthy outers are mere fickle fans who knee jerk whichever way the team is going.  the argument has gone way past this suggestion chicken.  the reasons for not changing the manager are very thin on the ground and carry little weight with many fans.

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