England v Scotland

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

See, this is where to me you end up overrating some of the foreign players which underrating some of the England players to make it fit. You mentioned players like Fernandes, Dias and Chellini who I didn't mention as the point I'm making is every team has their weaker positions. I agree all those players are excellent.

To me any of our 4 right backs are better than Semedo for Portugal or Munier for Belgium. Equally I don't think Pepe, Denayer or Vertongen get into this England XI, even with Maguire injured. I'd have Rice over either of the Portguese holding midfielders and I'd take Kane over any of the German striking options.

In my opinion the absolute best players in our team probably aren't as good as the absolute best players for Belgium, Portugal or similar. But I'd also add that the weakest players/positions in our first XI and squad are probably stronger than the weaker players in those respective teams. 

 

We've gone past each other a little bit, but I maintain you missed a key point of mine re. partnerships between players superseding individual talent.

I'd take Vertonghen and Alderweireld together over ANY permutation of England centre-halves by dint of the fact they've played together at club level and international level for so long and the synergies gained from proven teamwork, IMO, outweigh any perceived deficits in individual ability. Are they as good as England's centre-halves? I'd say they're both slightly on the slide and possibly that Stones is ahead of both now, but I'd definitely say the problems at Spurs have rendered playing in that environment difficult compared to the much more harmonious environment at Man City. When you look at England's team, where are the partnerships? Maybe Gomez and Alexander-Arnold in defence if both were available? Maddison and Vardy would be a good shout together too. Possibly Rashford and Greenwood, or if Sancho comes to Man Utd, then add him.

I mentioned Chiellini simply as he is only 2 years younger than Pepe, a player you looked a bit critical of and indeed mentioned his age, yet as you said, Chiellini is an excellent centre-half. I agree that the right-backs in England ranks are better than Semedo (who is still a proven Premiership quality performer so whilst they are better, I don't see a particularly big difference), indeed I said in an earlier post that right-back is a position where England is very well stocked. 

Totally agree with the first sentence in your last paragraph, but not convinced about the rest of it. Possibly a bit more depth at a certain level, but not necessarily better quality.

[king canary 7,579]

27 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

We've gone past each other a little bit, but I maintain you missed a key point of mine re. partnerships between players superseding individual talent.

I'd take Vertonghen and Alderweireld together over ANY permutation of England centre-halves by dint of the fact they've played together at club level and international level for so long and the synergies gained from proven teamwork, IMO, outweigh any perceived deficits in individual ability. Are they as good as England's centre-halves? I'd say they're both slightly on the slide and possibly that Stones is ahead of both now, but I'd definitely say the problems at Spurs have rendered playing in that environment difficult compared to the much more harmonious environment at Man City. When you look at England's team, where are the partnerships? Maybe Gomez and Alexander-Arnold in defence if both were available? Maddison and Vardy would be a good shout together too. Possibly Rashford and Greenwood, or if Sancho comes to Man Utd, then add him.

I mentioned Chiellini simply as he is only 2 years younger than Pepe, a player you looked a bit critical of and indeed mentioned his age, yet as you said, Chiellini is an excellent centre-half. I agree that the right-backs in England ranks are better than Semedo (who is still a proven Premiership quality performer so whilst they are better, I don't see a particularly big difference), indeed I said in an earlier post that right-back is a position where England is very well stocked. 

Totally agree with the first sentence in your last paragraph, but not convinced about the rest of it. Possibly a bit more depth at a certain level, but not necessarily better quality.

I didn't miss it, I just don't think its hugely relevant. The point you were making is that people overrate England's players, that is about the individuals, not about how they play in partnerships- to be honest that feels like moving the goalposts a bit. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

25 minutes ago, king canary said:

I didn't miss it, I just don't think its hugely relevant. The point you were making is that people overrate England's players, that is about the individuals, not about how they play in partnerships- to be honest that feels like moving the goalposts a bit. 

Disagree, as ultimately the discussion boils down to team performance.

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Bad news for Scotland Gilmour has tested postive. Misses Croatia game. Unlikely he will be the only one.

[KiwiScot 1,436]

3 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Bad news for Scotland Gilmour has tested postive. Misses Croatia game. Unlikely he will be the only one.

Chilwell and Mount isolating after interaction with Gilmour, but have negative tests. Precaution, but you have to wonder why the rest of the Scotland squad are carrying on as normal.

[Foxy2600 297]

Close Contact of less than 1m ???