Jump to content
Jim Smith

I notice Emi cites Villa’s ambition as a key factor

Recommended Posts

35 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Personally I think the ambition for a club like ours should be to remain in the premier league for several seasons, growing year on year, targetting a top half finish and then winning a cup competition or qualifying for Europe within 5 years. Appreciate that is ambitious but I don;t see why you can't aim for the stars as it were. 

 

Just now, Kenny Foggo said:

Absolutely Jim, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Don't forget a pet unicorn for season ticket holders

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

Don't forget a pet unicorn for season ticket holders

Says the Big Fish... do you ever dream? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Says the Big Fish... do you ever dream? 

Every pre-season, although I don't argue that I can expect my dreams to come true

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

Don't forget a pet unicorn for season ticket holders

Your answer illustrates the point. Conditioned. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jim Smith said:

Your answer illustrates the point. Conditioned. 

That is an idiot's argument @Jim Smith. The idea that, despite all the evidence, anyone who disagrees with you has in some way been brain washed. 

Let's look at your argument. It starts with the argument that S&J should either borrow a shed load of cash because this will enable the club to become an established EPL club, win cups, qualify for Europe and remain financially stable or sell up to a mysterious benefactor, as yet unknown, who will use their own money to enable the club to become an established EPL club, win cups, qualify for Europe and remain financially stable.

All this without a shred of evidence or the slightest attempt to articulate how this might happen.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

That is an idiot's argument @Jim Smith. The idea that, despite all the evidence, anyone who disagrees with you has in some way been brain washed. 

Let's look at your argument. It starts with the argument that S&J should either borrow a shed load of cash because this will enable the club to become an established EPL club, win cups, qualify for Europe and remain financially stable or sell up to a mysterious benefactor, as yet unknown, who will use their own money to enable the club to become an established EPL club, win cups, qualify for Europe and remain financially stable.

All this without a shred of evidence or the slightest attempt to articulate how this might happen.

No my point is that you regard an aspiration of finishing top half and winning a cup or qualifying for Europe as akin to giving out free unicorns by which I take to mean a fantasy. I find that quite sad. 

That’s what I think our fans have been conditioned to believe. That a club like us can’t do it because we are little old Norwich, don’t have the finances and nobody is ever going to be interested in giving us the financial clout. So we just have to accept it. I just don’t buy that. 
 

I would even accept there is a teeny, tiny chance we could do it under our current model with a few tweaks but only if everything goes our way and not if we keep selling our star players quite so readily.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

No my point is that you regard an aspiration of finishing top half and winning a cup or qualifying for Europe as akin to giving out free unicorns by which I take to mean a fantasy. I find that quite sad. 

That’s what I think our fans have been conditioned to believe. That a club like us can’t do it because we are little old Norwich, don’t have the finances and nobody is ever going to be interested in giving us the financial clout. So we just have to accept it. I just don’t buy that. 
 

I would even accept there is a teeny, tiny chance we could do it under our current model with a few tweaks but only if everything goes our way and not if we keep selling our star players quite so readily.

From where we are,  that aspiration is an unrealistic aspiration. We will have done fantastically if we finish 17th.

Most people don't quibble with your dreams Jim, it is just you have no realistic steps to get there.

Edited by BigFish
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do we need 5 pages on this? It's very clear that ... Villa are (1) currently and historically a better/bigger club than us, (2) better poised to break into European football, and (3) full of money.

 

Objectively, Buendia made the correct choice. I neither blame him nor feel ill will towards him.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, BigFish said:

From where we are, to that aspiration is an unrealistic aspiration. We will have done fantastically if we finish 17th.

Most people don't quibble with your dreams Jim, it is just you have no realistic steps to get there.

The reason the vast majority of fans hated the "Big Six" and their super league was that it shut down all their dreams of being a big six club one day. You seem to what to do that too supporters of City with your one version of the future. Aim high dream big... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PS Jim has told you countless times what he thinks is missing. If you chose to ignore it, that's your choice. They are steps taken by numerous clubs. I get you don't think that's best for NCFC. We disagree. Shall we move on or do you what to keep this going?

I want to see us in Europe again and all the fun that bought.... definitely achievable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, BigFish said:

From where we are,  that aspiration is an unrealistic aspiration. We will have done fantastically if we finish 17th.

Most people don't quibble with your dreams Jim, it is just you have no realistic steps to get there.

My steps to get there are for the owners/club to genuinely go out and see what investment or potential new ownership options might be out there, particularly if they made the club available to the "right" person on favourable terms as they have suggested previously they would do. I don;t believe they have really tested the market since the early days of their ownership. And contrary to popular belief I don't want them to sell to the first wheeler dealer who comes along. I don;t even necessarily want them to sell if there are investors willing to work alongside them although I suspect anyone putting in the sort of sum needed would want control. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

PS Jim has told you countless times what he thinks is missing. If you chose to ignore it, that's your choice. They are steps taken by numerous clubs. I get you don't think that's best for NCFC. We disagree. Shall we move on or do you what to keep this going?

I want to see us in Europe again and all the fun that bought.... definitely achievable.

Achievable but not under the current owners - Delia Out stinking rich Chinese owner in 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I don;t believe they have really tested the market since the early days of their ownership

So you believe they have actively prevented the growth of the club even though this has cost them several £millions of their own  money in bail outs? Wow! They must be really desperate to see us underachieve if that's the case.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, king canary said:

Pompey are always a really interesting one when people discuss ambition.

On one hand they've spent the last decade in the bottom two leagues and have experienced huge financial difficulties.

However, since the turn of the millennium, they've had the same amount of Premier League seasons as us (7 vs 7), have a higher finishing position than we've managed (8th vs 11th), two FA Cup finals, one FA Cup win and have played in Europe.

I'm not saying the earlier 10 years makes the later 10 years worth it but there is certainly a part of me that would take watching my team lift the FA Cup in exchange for the risk of a few years in League One. 

 

Yup let’s borrow recklessly, fail to pay bills and go into liquidation in a decaying stadium. These days you would be kicked out for the rules they broke. If that’s your model I’m out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Yup let’s borrow recklessly, fail to pay bills and go into liquidation in a decaying stadium. These days you would be kicked out for the rules they broke. If that’s your model I’m out.

I'd be out too if we are talking borrowing recklessly. Not one post to advocate that. When opportunities arise, businesses need a level  of investment to capitalise on those chances. The premier league funds clubs to the tune of millions, getting relegated means you lose out on those millions.

Its not all or nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Personally I think the ambition for a club like ours should be to remain in the premier league for several seasons, growing year on year, targetting a top half finish and then winning a cup competition or qualifying for Europe within 5 years. Appreciate that is ambitious but I don;t see why you can't aim for the stars as it were. 

Fully with you on this. Equally, I'd take a relegation from the prem if it meant winning the FA Cup - inside this model - we'd still be financially safe.

But I don't personally think your ambitions are that different to the clubs right now. It's just as fans we (you) take a very instantanious snapshot of things - the Emi sale in this instance - or our previous relegation (where you along many doubted our bounce back-ability, remember) - the club on the other hand is looking at where can we be in 3 years time, not just this season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Fully with you on this. Equally, I'd take a relegation from the prem if it meant winning the FA Cup - inside this model - we'd still be financially safe.

But I don't personally think your ambitions are that different to the clubs right now. It's just as fans we (you) take a very instantanious snapshot of things - the Emi sale in this instance - or our previous relegation (where you along many doubted our bounce back-ability, remember) - the club on the other hand is looking at where can we be in 3 years time, not just this season.

In 3 seasons.. lemme check my calendar... yep we should be in the premiership that year 🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Among others ... in <4 years we've gone from Marcel Franke at CB to Ben Gibson, from James Husband at LB to Dimitris Giannoulis!! The plan is WORKING. Everything is amazing!!!!!! It's a fantastic time to be a Norwich City fan and we should wake up each and every day with smiles on our faces!

 

🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Fully with you on this. Equally, I'd take a relegation from the prem if it meant winning the FA Cup - inside this model - we'd still be financially safe.

But I don't personally think your ambitions are that different to the clubs right now. It's just as fans we (you) take a very instantanious snapshot of things - the Emi sale in this instance - or our previous relegation (where you along many doubted our bounce back-ability, remember) - the club on the other hand is looking at where can we be in 3 years time, not just this season.

This season we were told that we would be stronger, anything else than a better 1st team would be unacceptable. The club got very little grief around the last relegation because of the plan. It'll be different if we repeat the same mistake which I am sure Webber wont.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Kenny Foggo said:

This season we were told that we would be stronger, anything else than a better 1st team would be unacceptable. The club got very little grief around the last relegation because of the plan. It'll be different if we repeat the same mistake which I am sure Webber wont.

Again, fully agree. 

Creating a stronger first team than what we have is a difficult but doable job, made that much more difficult by the sale of Emi because of the talent he has. However, we've been financially compensated for that so again, I'm confident Farke will have a stronger squad this coming season.

If it's enough to avoid relegation or not i'm not sure, the Prem looks strong enough already and I think all promoted teams are going to be battling hard for a chance of survival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

This season we were told that we would be stronger, anything else than a better 1st team would be unacceptable. The club got very little grief around the last relegation because of the plan. It'll be different if we repeat the same mistake which I am sure Webber wont.

I agree they will have to get off to a flier I think or the atmosphere will turn quickly after the initial euphoria of being back in the ground is over 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, NorthCarolinaYellow said:

Among others ... in <4 years we've gone from Marcel Franke at CB to Ben Gibson, from James Husband at LB to Dimitris Giannoulis!! The plan is WORKING. Everything is amazing!!!!!! It's a fantastic time to be a Norwich City fan and we should wake up each and every day with smiles on our faces!

 

🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩

Don't bring your positivity here, this is a place where people like to wallow in misery and pour scorn over all that is good. 

You're right though, Norwich City are amazing, and we should all be immensely proud and happy with how we're doing. But you can't please everyone hey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Again, fully agree. 

Creating a stronger first team than what we have is a difficult but doable job, made that much more difficult by the sale of Emi because of the talent he has. However, we've been financially compensated for that so again, I'm confident Farke will have a stronger squad this coming season.

If it's enough to avoid relegation or not i'm not sure, the Prem looks strong enough already and I think all promoted teams are going to be battling hard for a chance of survival.

I suppose my feel in that this season we really have to avoid relegation in order to take our chance because if we don;t there is a fairly big chance that Webber and Farke may both no longer be here, probably those remaining "crown jewells" will be off at that point and I am not as confident that we can bounce back at the first time of asking as I was last year. I think relegations take a toll on a club after a while and continued yo-yoing is not really sustainable in the long term so i really want to see us pushing the boat out (in a calculated way) to try and stay up this time. It feels likea fairly crucial season for us. 

You see we can all have civilised discussions on this. Fundamentally we all want the same thing which is success for the club even though we may not always agree on what that looks like or how best to achieve it. If we can buck the trend and do it under our self funding model then obviously I will be delighted! I suppose I'm just asking that they look at "self funding +" as well!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

My steps to get there are for the owners/club to genuinely go out and see what investment or potential new ownership options might be out there, particularly if they made the club available to the "right" person on favourable terms as they have suggested previously they would do. I don;t believe they have really tested the market since the early days of their ownership. And contrary to popular belief I don't want them to sell to the first wheeler dealer who comes along. I don;t even necessarily want them to sell if there are investors willing to work alongside them although I suspect anyone putting in the sort of sum needed would want control. 

 

So no plans........just want someone else to come up with plans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, BigFish said:

So no plans........just want someone else to come up with plans

You mean like the current owners came up with their plan... to fit their circumstances. 

James, I'd give up... the conditioning is strong in this one😜

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

You mean like the current owners came up with their plan... to fit their circumstances. 

James, I'd give up... the conditioning is strong in this one😜

 

HuffPost Power Rankings: Apocalypse Later Edition | HuffPostThey have a plan, you and @Jim Smith are just pissing in the wind

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, BigFish said:

One short sentence, so much wrong. Firstly, there has never been a credible alternative ownership model presented. Cullum did at least come up with a formulation where he got the club for free, wiping out the incumbent owners holdings in return for an "ambitious" transfer budget. Since then nothing. Of course there is the argument that this is because S&J are unwilling to sell, but that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Any "investor" with the wherewithal to provide the "ambition" that some posters on here daydream about would have the nous to engineer a takeover.

Secondly the clubs assets are largely dominated by the EPL windfall. Let's face it Carrow Road is a bit crap, the city is a bit out of the way and the name recognition/history is limited. In economic terms the club doesn't generate enough cash to be attractive. In addition, the club is well run meaning no distress sale on the cheap and no opportunity for whole sale asset stripping. And before you answer this with a bunch of hypertheticals if this isn't true go out and find your investor.

And we had proof of that very recently. If a would-be buyer came along with the right plan for Norwich City, and sold it in the right way, not just to fans but to the whole community, I don't believe S&J would stand in the way, but if they tried they simply would not be able to.

If, as we have seen, enough fans cared enough to successfully campaign against a sponsorship deal, forcing the club into an embarrassing climbdown, then the public clamour there would be in favour of a  righteous takeover would be quite overwhelming. The majority shareholding would count for nothing in the face of the voice of the people.

Edited by PurpleCanary
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BigFish said:

HuffPost Power Rankings: Apocalypse Later Edition | HuffPostThey have a plan, you and @Jim Smith are just pissing in the wind

Oooh you are an angry scamp...

Edited by Kenny Foggo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, PurpleCanary said:

And we had proof of that very recently. If a would-be buyer came along with the right plan for Norwich City, and sold it in the right way, not just to fans but to the whole community, I don't believe S&J would stand in the way, but if they tried to they simply would not be able to.

If, as we have seen, enough fans cared enough to successfully campaign against a sponsorship deal, forcing the club into an embarrassing climbdown, then the public clamour there would be in favour of a  righteous takeover would be quite overwhelming. The majority shareholding would count for nothing in the face of the voice of the people.

Bang on @PurpleCanary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I suppose my feel in that this season we really have to avoid relegation in order to take our chance because if we don;t there is a fairly big chance that Webber and Farke may both no longer be here, probably those remaining "crown jewells" will be off at that point and I am not as confident that we can bounce back at the first time of asking as I was last year. I think relegations take a toll on a club after a while and continued yo-yoing is not really sustainable in the long term so i really want to see us pushing the boat out (in a calculated way) to try and stay up this time. It feels likea fairly crucial season for us. 

You see we can all have civilised discussions on this. Fundamentally we all want the same thing which is success for the club even though we may not always agree on what that looks like or how best to achieve it. If we can buck the trend and do it under our self funding model then obviously I will be delighted! I suppose I'm just asking that they look at "self funding +" as well!

We can have civilised discussions Jim, the usual suspects lower the tone and resort to childish insults but that says more about them really. I feel a bit sorry for them to be honest.

 

  • Haha 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...