Are You Happy With Southgate

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

9 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

I tend not to really give 2 shoots about the national team because of being burned when I was kid during Euro 96 and France 98. Plus no Norwich players ever get near the squad so I have no real connection. 

World Cup '18 was amazing though and Southgate has a great squad at his disposal to at least get to the quarters. I just don't think we ever reach the giddy heights we should though, we seem to always bottle it. On paper England are pretty damn good. But overall I feel there's this lack of dynamism and bite which could make the difference in some games. 

I really want Grealish to start too and he just doesn't seem like a popular choice, he's a bit of a maverick which we need. 

'No Norwich players get near the squad'

 

How dare you, Ruddy and Redmond had like, at least a cameo 😏

[lake district canary 4,531]

11 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I can't say I'm his biggest fan. His squad selections, his team selections and - as others have pointed out - his rather defensive philosophy does leave me feeling a bit meh watching England. 

It's this more than anything that has switched me off from it altogether.   England may go on and win and hurrah if they do, but imo, we'll never get the right man for the job until something changes at the FA, who only want coaches that are squeaky clean personalities rather than actual real characters that can actually inspire the players.  

The best example that never got the job turned out to be Jackie Charlton who was brilliant at international management, but his attitude would not have sat nicely with the FA suits. Brian Clough is often touted as someone who should have been allowed the job, but was probably just a bit too OTT.  Southgate was a mediocre club manager, mediocre manager of the England U21s, but fit perfectly into the FA as a safe character. 

We have good players - and tbh always have had good players, it's just that they are never given a chance as the FA will rarely if ever pick the right man for the job, or get the timings right.  When they actually did pick the right man, they didn't stick with him, Terry Venables, who should have been manager for years after 1996....but no, the FA chickened out of that too.  Chose Hoddle, fair enough, who was also brilliant, but threw him out too.  Venables should have been allowed to stay on for years and Hoddle chosen later on who probably would have handled the media better later on. The legacy those two could have left would have been imo unsurpassed, but in throwing those two away so readily, the FA had nowhere to go except pick also rans. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Southgate is doing a good job and has a lot of the skills required for England nation coach. While not the best tactician or innovator in the world that isn't really what is required at National level as with such little time with players it is hard for any coach to get across complex ideas etc. Southgate has done the most important thing for tournament football; make the team hard to beat and maximise set pieces - while that isn't particularly exciting, tournament winners are often the team who defend the best rather than have the most electric attack. 

Building a fluid attack is the hardest thing to do when the team have such little coaching time together - which is why I think Southgate likes to rotate less in the attacking positions.

I also really like his emotional intelligence, he knows that pressure that comes with playing for England and protects the players well and minimises the risks. Playing Trippier at left back was about having experience in the defence, especially next to Mings who had looked a little nervy in the friendlies. Southgate knows the importance of these intangibles in a tournament rather than just trying to bring in a 'season's best XI' for a particular game.

Scanning across all the teams at the tournament and there isn't a huge wealth of talent in the coaching - which is a sign of the strength of club football - the best is probably Mancini or Martinez at the moment and those are people who I don't think many would have high on a list of the best managers in Europe.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

It's this more than anything that has switched me off from it altogether.   England may go on and win and hurrah if they do, but imo, we'll never get the right man for the job until something changes at the FA, who only want coaches that are squeaky clean personalities rather than actual real characters that can actually inspire the players.  

Erm, if England go on and win then that proves that Southgate is the right man for the job.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Erm, if England go on and win then that proves that Southgate is the right man for the job.

We''ll see, won't we.

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, lake district canary said:

We''ll see, won't we.

We'll see whether we win it or not.

But that doesn't change the fact that IF we do win, then Southgate will have been the right man for the job. You almost directly implied otherwise; that even if we win he isn't the right man.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It's this more than anything that has switched me off from it altogether.   England may go on and win and hurrah if they do, but imo, we'll never get the right man for the job until something changes at the FA, who only want coaches that are squeaky clean personalities rather than actual real characters that can actually inspire the players.  

The best example that never got the job turned out to be Jackie Charlton who was brilliant at international management, but his attitude would not have sat nicely with the FA suits. Brian Clough is often touted as someone who should have been allowed the job, but was probably just a bit too OTT.  Southgate was a mediocre club manager, mediocre manager of the England U21s, but fit perfectly into the FA as a safe character. 

We have good players - and tbh always have had good players, it's just that they are never given a chance as the FA will rarely if ever pick the right man for the job, or get the timings right.  When they actually did pick the right man, they didn't stick with him, Terry Venables, who should have been manager for years after 1996....but no, the FA chickened out of that too.  Chose Hoddle, fair enough, who was also brilliant, but threw him out too.  Venables should have been allowed to stay on for years and Hoddle chosen later on who probably would have handled the media better later on. The legacy those two could have left would have been imo unsurpassed, but in throwing those two away so readily, the FA had nowhere to go except pick also rans. 

i Agree with you LDC i am Sure Clough would have been great but then again he might of done it all wrong like he did at leeds andthe players would not play his style ,

Southgate for me is far to safe ,Looks a bag of Nerves , i dont think he allows his players to play their game 

Having said that he got a Result and his job is to win not entertain us fans 

I feel that if he went with Grealish / Foden / Sterling with Kane upfront there would not really be many teams in world football with a better front 4 

[Greavsy 2,412]

19 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

I tend not to really give 2 shoots about the national team because of being burned when I was kid during Euro 96 and France 98. Plus no Norwich players ever get near the squad so I have no real connection. 

 

There is no need for that! that's a low blow. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

Just now, canarydan23 said:

We'll see whether we win it or not.

But that doesn't change the fact that IF we do win, then Southgate will have been the right man for the job. You almost directly implied otherwise; that even if we win he isn't the right man.

The question was "are you happy with Southgate", not is he the right man for the job.  I'm not happy with him because I'm not happy that the FA only picks (or supports) safe pairs of hands, which is what I tried to explain in my post.  We might win it, but the process of it over the last few years has been, like @Terminally Yellow said, decidingly "meh".

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I like the culture he has created, the better relations with the mdeia and fans and generally there is nothing to dislike about Southgate - he's a decent guy. I think he's doing a reasonable job.

Having said that i think tactically he is a little lacking, is slow to react in games and still does not quite know his best side. I think he got the formation right finally in the game yesterday and that formation really suits us so thats a good start. I do, however, think our two best full backs were on the bench so the team selection was a little bit strange. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

19 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The question was "are you happy with Southgate", not is he the right man for the job.  I'm not happy with him because I'm not happy that the FA only picks (or supports) safe pairs of hands, which is what I tried to explain in my post.  We might win it, but the process of it over the last few years has been, like @Terminally Yellow said, decidingly "meh".

Yes, that was the question, but you said;

"England may go on and win and hurrah if they do, but imo, we'll never get the right man for the job until something changes at the FA"

Which is nonsense, if he wins us the Euros he becomes England's second most successful manager and his appointment by the FA a categorical success, regardless of the process of selection or whether he's edgy enough for you.

I don't think it'll happen, but the idea that we "go on and win" and you'd still say he wasn't the right man for the job is approaching peak Lakey.

[lake district canary 4,531]

13 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Yes, that was the question, but you said;

"England may go on and win and hurrah if they do, but imo, we'll never get the right man for the job until something changes at the FA"

Which is nonsense, if he wins us the Euros he becomes England's second most successful manager and his appointment by the FA a categorical success, regardless of the process of selection or whether he's edgy enough for you.

I don't think it'll happen, but the idea that we "go on and win" and you'd still say he wasn't the right man for the job is approaching peak Lakey.

Yes, I'll admit that might be strange.  But if there is something you really want to enjoy - like following your national team - you want to enjoy it all the time, with all it's ups and downs. There is no roller coaster ride for the England team, it is just a constant dragging along at a low level, with very little to get excited about along the way.  Will we up that level? Maybe, we'll have to, but it's a bit like watching paint dry most of the time.

[Yellow Green Army 237]

Would prefer Pep Guardiola but Southgate doing a good job up to now.

[AJ 1,218]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

I like the culture he has created, the better relations with the mdeia and fans and generally there is nothing to dislike about Southgate - he's a decent guy. I think he's doing a reasonable job.

Having said that i think tactically he is a little lacking, is slow to react in games and still does not quite know his best side. I think he got the formation right finally in the game yesterday and that formation really suits us so thats a good start. I do, however, think our two best full backs were on the bench so the team selection was a little bit strange. 

Can't sum it up much better than this. Loveable guy and captures the imagination of the nation. Tactically he is a little slow, I felt things needed changing just before we scored and we got a bit of fortune to get the goal. I found the trippier selection a bit odd but can understand his reasoning. We played well, looked well balanced and solid at the back. Tougher teams will ask more questions but so far so good

[canarydan23 4,060]

38 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Yes, I'll admit that might be strange.  But if there is something you really want to enjoy - like following your national team - you want to enjoy it all the time, with all it's ups and downs. There is no roller coaster ride for the England team, it is just a constant dragging along at a low level, with very little to get excited about along the way.  Will we up that level? Maybe, we'll have to, but it's a bit like watching paint dry most of the time.

Yes, the performances are poor, but are you telling me the 2018 World Cup wasn't exciting?

[ZLF 271]

We have a dearth of good english coaches (that the mentioned alternatives are decent but aged Roy, discredited on many levels Big Sam or Potter tells its own story) and he is far from doing a bad job - The U21s show how easy it is to waste a well regarded squad. He isnt afraid to give youngsters a chance (Rice, Bellingham, Sancho) but also recognises the value of some experience (eg trippier to help out Mings as pointed out by Bethnal)

He has great attacking options (and perming the right combination is its own conundrum) but , apart from a surfeit of attacking right backs, his defensive options all have quite severe top level defensive limitations, (which could be exposed against the attacking better sides,  especially as a unit they rarely face that threat) but he has created a structure that helps protect that irrespective of who plays - unimaginative perhaps, but solid and enables us to gain some control,  such as we saw against Croatia..

He could take us to the finals,  but, given the draw, the only real disaster would be not making it out of the group rounds,  which we will now avoid.  Sticking with him for next years word cup is key,  given the paucity of alternatives.  

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by ZLF

[A Load of Squit 5,137]

Forcing his Marxist thinking on young impressionable young players will be his undoing, fortunately there are brave supporters who a prepared to stand up to Southgate's jack-boot management.

The sooner the job is given to the golden team of Laurence Fox and Nigel Farage the sooner we'll actually win a tournament.

 

 

[hogesar 9,618]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

It's this more than anything that has switched me off from it altogether.   England may go on and win and hurrah if they do, but imo, we'll never get the right man for the job until something changes at the FA, who only want coaches that are squeaky clean personalities rather than actual real characters that can actually inspire the players.   

I think Southgate has done just as good a job as any random 'character' you come up with.

If we go "go on and win" then Southgate is evidently the right person for the job.

He plays young players, very young players, and blends in some experience. We play decent football on the deck with attacking fullbacks.

What exactly is it that you don't like?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

To think that we are praising him for worrying about Croatia shows his negative attitude.

I want a National Coach who will let the opposition worry about us.

To say players are inexperienced is not right. Players who play in the CL face tougher tasks than some international matches. If he was worried about the CBs, he could have played Walker in a three with Trippier and Chillwell and leave Rice out.

But thats the problem. The fear factor. Why do people revere Brazil?  Because they have a reputation for fearlessness.

To be honest, I am fed up with hearing all the old cliches about England.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

@lake district canary so far you have named Jack Charlton, Brian Clough, Terry Venables and Glen Hoddle but can i point out this is 2021. How about naming somebody who would meet with your approval.

[lake district canary 4,531]

41 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think Southgate has done just as good a job as any random 'character' you come up with.

If we go "go on and win" then Southgate is evidently the right person for the job.

He plays young players, very young players, and blends in some experience. We play decent football on the deck with attacking fullbacks.

What exactly is it that you don't like?

Nothing "exact" about it, I just can't muster any enthusiasm for him after so many years of mediocre football and uninspiring managers due to the establishment figures that still haunt the FA. So it's not just Southgate, although he is part of it, but he was chosen largely because his face fitted the FA squeaky clean risk free manager that they wanted.

[Mr Angry 1,548]

5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Nothing "exact" about it, I just can't muster any enthusiasm for him after so many years of mediocre football and uninspiring managers due to the establishment figures that still haunt the FA. So it's not just Southgate, although he is part of it, but he was chosen largely because his face fitted the FA squeaky clean risk free manager that they wanted.

So you don’t want a squeaky clean manager but you want squeaky clean players?

[lake district canary 4,531]

41 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

@lake district canary so far you have named Jack Charlton, Brian Clough, Terry Venables and Glen Hoddle but can i point out this is 2021. How about naming somebody who would meet with your approval.

I don't know. The question was are you happy with Southgate, not who would you choose in his place.  Plenty to choose from, not for me to say.  I like the idea of Nigel Clough becoming manager at some stage. England international, mixed and varied management experience with some success in there too.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, Mr Angry said:

So you don’t want a squeaky clean manager but you want squeaky clean players?

I don't want squeaky clean players, just players that show a bit of gumption off the pitch rather than behave like idiots for all to see.

[Evil Monkey 52]

8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I like the idea of Nigel Clough becoming manager at some stage

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OGC.7b5c8cd8de6ae58009456a4567c3445a&pid=Api&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia.giphy.com%2fmedia%2f3osxYm9kQsiULgazja%2fgiphy.gif&ehk=p4H3Hz%2bj8Db5HjSG%2bEzz0vfI2%2f1w7Red8OgrNtyToRw%3d

[lake district canary 4,531]

Idiot.

[canarydan23 4,060]

10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I don't know. The question was are you happy with Southgate, not who would you choose in his place.  Plenty to choose from, not for me to say.  I like the idea of Nigel Clough becoming manager at some stage. England international, mixed and varied management experience with some success in there too.

It is for you to say. You've said you're not happy with Southgate and have described the type of alternative that you want. You've stated the FA are consistently incorrect with their recruitment. So, who would you be/have been happy with?

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

It is for you to say. You've said you're not happy with Southgate and have described the type of alternative that you want. You've stated the FA are consistently incorrect with their recruitment. So, who would you be/have been happy with?

A combination would be quite good imo, an inspiring figurehead and good coach combo.  Beckham and Gary Neville would have been good a few years ago. Today? Frank Lampard?  @Evil Monkey ridiculed it but someone with a bit of pedigree as an international player and who has been a solid manager for a few years like Nigel Clough might be someone to look at. Eddie Howe?

[canarydan23 4,060]

11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

A combination would be quite good imo, an inspiring figurehead and good coach combo.  Beckham and Gary Neville would have been good a few years ago. Today? Frank Lampard?  @Evil Monkey ridiculed it but someone with a bit of pedigree as an international player and who has been a solid manager for a few years like Nigel Clough might be someone to look at. Eddie Howe?

Lol.

[hogesar 9,618]

26 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I don't want squeaky clean players, just players that show a bit of gumption off the pitch rather than behave like idiots for all to see.

Ok, but the players you listed you didn't like as 'not fit to wear the shirt' were Grealish, Mings and Maguire.

Whilst all have been in the public eye for the wrong reasons (so thus not squeaky clean as you acknowledge) - 

Jack Grealish - Mental Health Charity - https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-news-jack-grealish-18192888

Jack Grealish - Children in Need - https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/jack-grealish1

Jack Grealish - NHS Workers - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8283015/Jack-Grealish-raises-54-000-NHS-workers-auctioning-Second-City-derby-shirt.html

Tyrone Mings - Spent Christmas Day feeding homeless - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Mings#:~:text=Off the field%2C Mings has,old number on the back.

Tyrone Mings - Childs Football Academy - https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertkidd/2020/04/23/tyrone-mings-on-business-giving-back-and-preparing-for-life-after-soccer/

 

I could go on, but the point is you've talked a load of rubbish and not given a single valid reason for any of the points you've raised so far, both in this and your initial Euro's post where you didn't care how England performed but did care how Scotland performed.