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CLUB STATEMENT- BK8 CONTRACT TERMINATED

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From BK8s point of view its crazy to think, equally from the clubs point of view, a 5 minute vetting of social media and removing of the hotdog video- thered have been no problem!

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Just now, Petriix said:

I see that you need to create a straw man before you can mount any kind of argument to support your views. Thankfully the world is changing, no thanks to people like you. All I want is a fair and equal society. I genuinely don't care what people do, as long as they're not causing harm to others. It's pretty simple.

Tolerance is a double-edged word. Yes, we need to be tolerant of different cultures and ways of life, but we need to be extremely intolerant of intolerance itself. Claiming to be supporting freedom of choice and freedom of speech in order to perpetuate discrimination and exploitation is a common tactic and doesn't fool anybody.

I don't really understand what you mean, unfortunately.

I certainly have respect for the Club's decision to listen to its supporters.

Who are you to tell me what I 'need to be'?

I don't cause harm to anyone, I just don't think the crusade against BK8 was necessary and I don't think anyone has given the women in their marketing material a voice throughout any of this- and so much of the argument was based on guesswork and the chance for blokes to potentially get laid by putting a pro-women angle on something that is only anti-women by assumption until we actually speak to the women involved, that I simply cannot ally myself to it.

I'm not a bad guy, really I'm not.

I just don't join crusades without what I feel is solid evidence to substantiate the claim.

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5 minutes ago, Orly said:


I don't actually have a particular view on this either way.  Didn't really see the fuss before, and don't really care that it's been cancelled (it was the sacking witch hunt I didn't like).  But I do find the viewpoint that there is NO OTHER acceptable opinion on this more than a little concerning.
 

Absolutely- it’s quite astonishing the insistence of some that their view is the only acceptable one (eg LDC who is being lauded elsewhere). There’s always shades of grey.

Edited by Branston Pickle
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3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Sure, just clarifying amongst the discussions what I strongly suspect the primary reason behind it is.

I absolutely support the 'unsuitable for a family friendly club' line.

I don't buy the 'this is anti-women's rights' stuff, at all.

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Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Absolutely- it’s quite astonishing the insistence if some that their view is the only acceptable one (eg LDC who is imo wrongly being lauded elsewhere). There’s always shades of grey.

I like you.

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6 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

Supports financial remuneration for women empowering themselves by owning what they do with their sexuality.

One of my friends does it, and is absolutely transformed by the confidence it has given her. 

You aren't necessarily submitting to the will of men just by deriving confidence from people finding you attractive.

So you'd be happy with them on the front of our shirt?

If so, fair play, but I suspect you would be in an extreme minority. Likewise pornhub. The point I'm trying to make is that there is always a line and where that line is differs for people. For you, BK8 didn't cross that line but maybe OnlyFans or Pornhub does. For me, Dafabet came close to the line but didn't cross it but BK8 did. And it appears that a majority, or at least a significant enough number, or fans agree with me and pressured the club into ditching it.

Maybe we should get a legitimate male escort service to sponsor us? It'd be interesting to see how certain people reacted to that.

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2 minutes ago, Orly said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_prostitution#Pro-sex_worker_perspectives

So you want people to be afraid to voice their opinions?  Even entirely reasonable opposing views?  What about the feminists quoted in the above link, women, who disagree with your viewpoint?  Let's hope you don't find yourself in a similar position against a mob with a different opinion to you.

I don't actually have a particular view on this either way.  Didn't really see the fuss before, and don't really care that it's been cancelled (it was the sacking witch hunt I didn't like).  But I do find the viewpoint that there is NO OTHER acceptable opinion on this more than a little concerning.

Cue ad hominem attacks.

Yes, there are certain opinions that should never be aired in civilised society. I'm sure we could agree on some extreme examples. Or perhaps you think there should be an open debate about bringing back slavery or removing the vote from women (to name but two)?

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Just now, canarydan23 said:

So you'd be happy with them on the front of our shirt?

If so, fair play, but I suspect you would be in an extreme minority. Likewise pornhub. The point I'm trying to make is that there is always a line and where that line is differs for people. For you, BK8 didn't cross that line but maybe OnlyFans or Pornhub does. For me, Dafabet came close to the line but didn't cross it but BK8 did. And it appears that a majority, or at least a significant enough number, or fans agree with me and pressured the club into ditching it.

Maybe we should get a legitimate male escort service to sponsor us? It'd be interesting to see how certain people reacted to that.

Wouldn't be suitable for our Club, so no. In the same way BK8 isn't.

But because we are a family friendly club, not because their marketing is wrong.

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Just now, canarydan23 said:

So you'd be happy with them on the front of our shirt?

If so, fair play, but I suspect you would be in an extreme minority. Likewise pornhub. The point I'm trying to make is that there is always a line and where that line is differs for people. For you, BK8 didn't cross that line but maybe OnlyFans or Pornhub does. For me, Dafabet came close to the line but didn't cross it but BK8 did. And it appears that a majority, or at least a significant enough number, or fans agree with me and pressured the club into ditching it.

Maybe we should get a legitimate male escort service to sponsor us? It'd be interesting to see how certain people reacted to that.

Fine with me.    Redesign the crest so the canary is sitting on two balls instead👍

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It's a neat trick. Economic and social injustice removes young women's choices, they are forced by circumstances into degrading exploitation then the enthusiastic consumers of pornography and young flesh scrabble to justify their indulgences by saying "They get paid, what's the problem?"

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Just now, spindrift said:

It's a neat trick. Economic and social injustice removes young women's choices, they are forced by circumstances into degrading exploitation then the enthusiastic consumers of pornography and young flesh scrabble to justify their indulgences by saying "They get paid, what's the problem?"

In that particular circumstance, yes, but that's a sweeping generalisation of women in pornography and you can smell the bias in 'young flesh....their indulgences' from here. Where's that from. the Mail? 😆

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5 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

I absolutely support the 'unsuitable for a family friendly club' line.

I don't buy the 'this is anti-women's rights' stuff, at all.

There were definitely aspects that were too shrill for me, particularly the demand for heads to roll, which is something I can not get on board with at all simply as it penalises too harshly for honest errors. As others have said, Far Eastern countries have far more relaxed attitudes to this sort of promotional activity, but it would utterly fail by UK promotional standards.

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Im glad the club have reversed direction on this.  Done the right thing in my opinion. 

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Just now, TheGunnShow said:

There were definitely aspects that were too shrill for me, particularly the demand for heads to roll, which is something I can not get on board with at all simply as it penalises too harshly for honest errors. As others have said, Far Eastern countries have far more relaxed attitudes to this sort of promotional activity, but it would utterly fail by UK promotional standards.

Agreed, which is why I applaud us not being involved in it.

I will continue to call out people who warp it to suit their own weird agendas, however, be it blue sky thinking of a better tomorrow or simply just wanting to seem like a better option to prospective female partners. We have no evidence these women were exploited, and it is not our place to say they were.

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1 hour ago, FatCanary said:

Can we leave Ben Kensell alone now?

He listened, you got your pound of flesh, your problem has been solved.

 

He didn’t. The Board did. I think Kensell got overruled by the board when they realised just what (another) **** up he’d made. Surprised it wasn’t sneaked out at 6am on fixture release date like the last ‘mistake.’ Well done to the club for pulling the deal. There are so many good and efficient people at the club- I’m just not sure he’s one of them.

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12 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Yes, there are certain opinions that should never be aired in civilised society. I'm sure we could agree on some extreme examples. Or perhaps you think there should be an open debate about bringing back slavery or removing the vote from women (to name but two)?

Obvs.  Both of which are the removal of rights from a human.   That's a line that shouldn't be crossed.  Although I wouldn't ban conversation on the subject, because people will only learn by honest engagement, rather than derision which entrenches bad or immoral positions.

But where moral sensibilities (which are changeable, as can be seen) are used to stigmatise what may be  a legitimate and educated choice to move into modelling, only fans, p0rn, (although obvs there are people who do it out of desperation) the same argument (albeit with lesser impact) can be made that women's (or men's) rights are being restricted in a similar (but not proportional) way.

Edit: re "but not proportional" - am making point that 'attitudes that may restrict economic opportunity', is not the same level of harm as slavery - just in case I actually needed to clarify that.  hopefully not, but you never know these days!

Edited by Orly

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3 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

He didn’t. The Board did. I think Kensell got overruled by the board when they realised just what (another) **** up he’d made. Surprised it wasn’t sneaked out at 6am on fixture release date like the last ‘mistake.’ Well done to the club for pulling the deal. There are so many good and efficient people at the club- I’m just not sure he’s one of them.

‘You think….’ - based on what, exactly?

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4 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

He didn’t. The Board did. I think Kensell got overruled by the board when they realised just what (another) **** up he’d made. Surprised it wasn’t sneaked out at 6am on fixture release date like the last ‘mistake.’ Well done to the club for pulling the deal. There are so many good and efficient people at the club- I’m just not sure he’s one of them.

How do you know?

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I personally think the club after the news broke of the BK8 outrage were slow out of the traps to react and then bin them.....You're telling me that the hierarchy at the club weren't in the loop or aware of the sponsorship and nature of these sponsors?....."Oh we've sourced and sorted a new shirt sponsorship deal, we're guaranteed x amount of cash although they're a bit closer to the knuckle than Dafabet but they seem pretty legit".....Pah!....Club probably thought they would ride the storm initially until then the heat got too much - and that's where we are now......    

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7 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

simply just wanting to seem like a better option to prospective female partners

I know when I want to make women believe I'm a better potential partner, the place is chose to display it is the pinkun dot com. Absolutely rolling with single women just wanting to meet a life partner.

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If the women in those clips were tricked into those degrading acts it wouldn't be the first time. It's hilarious how people fall over themselves to assign the highest, purest morals to a company whose profit derives from the exploitation of human weakness.

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Just now, king canary said:

I know when I want to make women believe I'm a better potential partner, the place is chose to display it is the pinkun dot com. Absolutely rolling with single women just wanting to meet a life partner.

I was referring more to Twitter. The bleeding hearts of the #NCFC hashtag love it

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Just now, spindrift said:

If the women in those clips were tricked into those degrading acts it wouldn't be the first time. It's hilarious how people fall over themselves to assign the highest, purest morals to a company whose profit derives from the exploitation of human weakness.

 

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Well, this is massive. Well done to the club for being bold and admitting it’s an error. 

I don’t like being sponsored by betting firms, as it contradicts and seems to go against all that we’re supposed to stand for. And as for ethics, international betting firms are even less regulated. To be honest, I don’t care about attractive women being used in advertising, because like my friend who’s a former darts and promo girl, if they want to do that, then it’s totally their freedom of choice. Having links to the **** industry, however, that is a totally different ball game (excuse the pun). 😇

All in all, what a dreadful mess by the marketing and procurement teams. Due diligence is everything, especially in the high-profile, billion-pound world of sport. 

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1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

If all posters behaved with the decorum that you do, you wouldn't have to be posting that. Sadly, though, there's been a fair amount of bigoted vitriol on here over the past few days, and no small amount of righteous ire from people who care about the reputation the club has built for inclusivity.

I'm all for listening to both sides of an argument, educating myself and changing my position where necessary; the more of us that feel capable of doing that, the better place this forum will be (as a microcosm of wider society and the world at large, of course).

Thank you Wolfy. That's a generous comment.

I'm with you on the latter points you've made (and fine on the first paragraph too). I think my main reasons for discomfort are the strength and forcefulness of opinion. Of any opinion actually on any subject. It might be politics of course, to pick an obvious example. And this affair is sexual politics too.  In matters of sex and love, I actually don't care what people do, so long as it's legal and secondly, consensual. I'm not sure whether those women in the videos 'really' gave their consent. Perhaps they did but I'm not wholly convinced. It's a slippery slope then isn't it? For example folk who engage in domestic violence are more likely to be abusive in other domains. Unpleasant, but is borne out.

I think before people jump to righteous conclusions about anything they certainly need to know some facts. And we don't know them but can make our best guesses. In that case, why should we take SUCH a moral position? We don't know until we know.

I believe in being as neutral in making a decision about any person. To be open minded. I'm the same with my politics. I have a preferred stance but am open to different views. You have to work with folk you often don't like. But what is that 'dislike' about? That's the important question.

Too much righteousness is as bad as too much laxness. The latter means a problem is not examined enough. We do need people to call things wrong at times .... especially important today. 

I guess I'm arguing for balance and moderation! And not belittling of posters who one disagrees with. Sometimes people get upset about posts that are obviously sardonic or are dry in humour.

Anyway, though not I'm not especially religious,  as such as my partner will often say (which is a bit like the saying 'people in greenhouses') there's a more rounded maxim..."there for the grace of god go I". No-one is perfect (thankfully).

Edited by sonyc

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9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

‘You think….’ - based on what, exactly?

Commonsense,  would be my guess 😀

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Just now, Robornio said:

Well, this is massive. Well done to the club for being bold and admitting it’s an error. 

I don’t like being sponsored by betting firms, as it contradicts and seems to go against all that we’re supposed to stand for. And as for ethics, international betting firms are even less regulated. To be honest, I don’t care about attractive women being used in advertising, because like my friend who’s a former darts and promo girl, if they want to do that, then it’s totally their freedom of choice. Having links to the **** industry, however, that is a totally different ball game (excuse the pun). 😇

All in all, what a dreadful mess by the marketing and procurement teams. Due diligence is everything, especially in the high-profile, billion-pound world of sport. 

You reckon it's just a coincidence that the women most likely to suffer horrible sexual exploitation have the worst socio economic prospects?

 

 

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