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TeemuVanBasten

Bye Ben Kensell

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9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I took that to mean with (some) supporters- the club wouldn’t say such a thing, surely?

Can you imagine the stress of the job if the club put out a press statement saying 'one more **** up and you're out!' 

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20 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

I don't particularly want a Betting firm on the shirt regardless. That said, genuine question, because I've only seen screenshots of Instagram, are the pictures of models in shorts, bikini top and vest what people are referring to as p0rn or is there more? If so then that is pretty much standard wear in parks, beaches etc across here and Europe. The use of scantily clad women for advertising seems to be outdated but to describe it as p0rn is sensationalist and dilutes the clear objections being made.

Interesting that no-one’s seen fit to address your perfectly reasonable point.  Many are so quick to jump onto the outraged woke bandwagon these days without necessarily considering the facts first.

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3 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Interesting that no-one’s seen fit to address your perfectly reasonable point.  Many are so quick to jump onto the outraged woke bandwagon these days without necessarily considering the facts first.

Which conveniently missed out the hot dog video.

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49 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:
1 hour ago, hertfordyellow said:

I don't particularly want a Betting firm on the shirt regardless. That said, genuine question, because I've only seen screenshots of Instagram, are the pictures of models in shorts, bikini top and vest what people are referring to as p0rn or is there more? If so then that is pretty much standard wear in parks, beaches etc across here and Europe. The use of scantily clad women for advertising seems to be outdated but to describe it as p0rn is sensationalist and dilutes the clear objections being made.

Interesting that no-one’s seen fit to address your perfectly reasonable point.  Many are so quick to jump onto the outraged woke bandwagon these days without necessarily considering the facts first.

The facts are that this goes way beyond scantily clad female images. There are BK8 videos on you tube of young females performing psuedo sex acts on phallic shaped items as a form of game. If that appeared on a game show anywhere in this country it would cause an absolute outcry as it is so pornographic in nature. 

Edited by lake district canary
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1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Which conveniently missed out the hot dog video.

But if they’ve removed that content, does that make it ok?  After all, BLM tried to sanitise their social media platforms by removing references to overthrowing capitalism, defunding the police, dismantling the western nuclear family structure and general promotion of Marxism and apparently taking a knee is now not only acceptable, it’s virtually compulsory.

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11 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

From The Athletic today:

"The narrative is a club trying to play by financial rules, and therefore commercial opportunities such as shirt sponsor must be maximised if Norwich are to stand a chance of success. Dafabet’s arrival in the summer of 2019 was labelled a club-record deal, worth in excess of £5 million a year. The BK8 deal comes slightly under that mark but is still seen as a very good financial package due to the current economic climate and continuing coronavirus pandemic."

So why move from Dafabet if they are paying more?  Now it doesn't even make financial sense!

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21 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

He said "Was he not on a last strike", which implied that the club had said something publicly... to me, anyway. Either way, he's on thin ice.

Didn’t mean to imply the club said something. It would be very unusual to say something like that so publicly. However I do remember Webber on the TNC podcast which came out around the time of the membership fiasco saying something like “Ben has owned that mistake”.

It was a very public embarrassment again and one I am sure behind closed doors the club made clear was not be repeated.

And here we are. 

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1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

So why move from Dafabet if they are paying more?  Now it doesn't even make financial sense!

The question is did we choose to move on or did Dafabet end early due to their own considerations.

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Just now, WD40 said:

Didn’t mean to imply the club said something. It would be very unusual to say something like that so publicly. However I do remember Webber on the TNC podcast which came out around the time of the membership fiasco saying something like “Ben has owned that mistake”.

It was a very public embarrassment again and one I am sure behind closed doors the club made clear was not be repeated.

And here we are. 

Thanks for replying. I'd already reasoned that I probably misinterpreted your original comment 🙂

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3 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

But if they’ve removed that content, does that make it ok?  After all, BLM tried to sanitise their social media platforms by removing references to overthrowing capitalism, defunding the police, dismantling the western nuclear family structure and general promotion of Marxism and apparently taking a knee is now not only acceptable, it’s virtually compulsory.

Would they have removed that content first if fans hadn't done their research?

As for the whataboutery and ignorance re. "general promotion of Marxism", I wonder if they know what Marxism is.

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2 minutes ago, king canary said:

The question is did we choose to move on or did Dafabet end early due to their own considerations.

Could be that they didn't want to extend sponsorship contract and Norwich wanted to secure sponsorship money for longer term. That is logical.

The bad thing is Norwich's due diligence apparently involved googling BK8 with p*** filter *on*. Talk about irony.

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3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Would they have removed that content first if fans hadn't done their research?

As for the whataboutery and ignorance re. "general promotion of Marxism", I wonder if they know what Marxism is.

I doubt it.

In some ways you can argue the club was unlucky. Dafabet have had similar marketing but nobody noticed because they didn't go digging.

The BK8 situation came about because people noticed our new sponsors tagged twitter account only had 100 followers, a suspiciously low amount. So I think based on that someone went to check out their other social media and then found the IG, then youtube and it go worse and worse.

So the digging is what led to the company having to remove it.

Not even worth engaging with the BLM whatabouterry to be honest.

Edited by king canary

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Look, Ben Kensell just wanted his name on the shirts.

Sorry to be flippant. But it is a bit of a joke. Family club image tarnished by employee shirt sponsor deal (with same initials) after being told to get more money after underselling best player. For shirts probably made by 12 year old whose Mum appeared in said advert causing concern while club and supplier make fortune to lobby G7, who are causing bleddy chaos here in Cornwall, to allow exploitation to continue.

Have I covered the salient points?

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21 minutes ago, king canary said:

Can you imagine the stress of the job if the club put out a press statement saying 'one more **** up and you're out!' 

I remember them doing that to Worthy back in the day

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5 minutes ago, king canary said:

I doubt it.

In some ways you can argue the club was unlucky. Dafabet have had similar marketing but nobody noticed because they didn't go digging.

The BK8 situation came about because people noticed our new sponsors tagged twitter account only had 100 followers, a suspiciously low amount. So I think based on that someone went to check out their other social media and then found the IG, then youtube and it go worse and worse.

So the digging is what led to the company having to remove it.

Not even worth engaging with the BLM whatabouterry to be honest.

Do Dafabet have similar promotional videos? I'll readily agree re. just about any bookmaker and pictures alluringly dressed ladies - a quick look at the casino features even at Ladbrokes and William Hill are enough to show that the comparison in terms of pictures is an understandable one and there's nothing too much different about BK8.

But many of the complaints appear to be about the promotional videos.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

I'm not saying its ruined our reputation but its clearly hurt it and damaged relationships with our own fanbase- look at the reactions from oganisations like Proud Canaries, Supporters Trust, etc etc.

Dafabet has similar girly websites but nobody has ever complained about them. Why is there outrage over one company but not the other?

This is yet another knee-jerk, social media pile-on trying to scapegoat an employee out of his job. 

Proud Canaries and Supporters Trust are examples of what happens when you give people power without responsibility for their actions. These are the people who put Christ on the Cross and would do the same to Ben Kensall. 

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22 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The facts are that this goes way beyond scantily clad female images. There are BK8 videos on you tube of young females performing psuedo sex acts on phallic shaled items as a form of game. If that appeared on a game show anywhere in this country it would cause an absolute outcry as it is so pornographic in nature. 

You seem extremely well informed about what is there...

I’ve not seen any of it - but for some reason got labelled as ‘repulsive’ just because I said the club is entitled to do business with them…which of course, it is.

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Kensell likely oversees these final commercial decisions but NCFC do have their own commercial and marketing teams, who are involved in organising the main sponsors. I went for a job to be a commercial manager a year or so back and this would have fallen into my remit should I have got the job. 

I didn't. But the BK8 thing probably wouldn't have happened on my watch! However, money talks I'm afraid. I think the club have done the right thing by trying to get BK8 to retract their marketing strategy but the damage has been somewhat done. 

Timing of selling Emi and then this was definitely a bit rubbish, mind.

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1 minute ago, BobLoz3 said:

Kensell likely oversees these final commercial decisions but NCFC do have their own commercial and marketing teams, who are involved in organising the main sponsors. I went for a job to be a commercial manager a year or so back and this would have fallen into my remit should I have got the job. 

I didn't. But the BK8 thing probably wouldn't have happened on my watch! However, money talks I'm afraid. I think the club have done the right thing by trying to get BK8 to retract their marketing strategy but the damage has been somewhat done. 

Timing of selling Emi and then this was definitely a bit rubbish, mind.

Totally agree with the bit in bold, and there is a potential argument that it reflects well on the club and the power it has, that it can request such a change in the early days of a partnership. It also tells me that there's a fair bit of mutual overlap between BK8's objects for gaining exposure ('arf) here, and maybe we're looking at getting more leverage in the Far Eastern market?

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43 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The facts are that this goes way beyond scantily clad female images. There are BK8 videos on you tube of young females performing psuedo sex acts on phallic shaled items as a form of game. If that appeared on a game show anywhere in this country it would cause an absolute outcry as it is so pornographic in nature. 

To be fair, I stated I had only seen screenshots and asked if there was anything more that I hadn't seen. I literally do that in the opening sentences.

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16 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

You seem extremely well informed about what is there...

I’ve not seen any of it - but for some reason got labelled as ‘repulsive’ just because I said the club is entitled to do business with them…which of course, it is.

It wasn't rocket science. One quick search for BK8 to see who they were was all it needed.

And yes, they are entitled to do business with who they like as long as it is legal, but if they upset a good proprtion of their customers in the process, then they have to accept the consequences and outcry.

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5 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

To be fair, I stated I had only seen screenshots and asked if there was anything more that I hadn't seen. I literally do that in the opening sentences.

Yes, agreed, that is what I answered, but I was answering branston as well.

Edited by lake district canary

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2 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

I don't particularly want a Betting firm on the shirt regardless. That said, genuine question, because I've only seen screenshots of Instagram, are the pictures of models in shorts, bikini top and vest what people are referring to as p0rn or is there more? If so then that is pretty much standard wear in parks, beaches etc across here and Europe. The use of scantily clad women for advertising seems to be outdated but to describe it as p0rn is sensationalist and dilutes the clear objections being made.

Do women walk around in European parks deep-throating foot long hot dog sausages?

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4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Do women walk around in European parks deep-throating foot long hot dog sausages?

No, but Cadburys used to have a girl in a bath deep-throating a Flake, yet many still buy their products.

Edited by Naturalcynic

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So we’re mad because they used sexualised women in commercials? I’ve not seen any of the adverts but…. Hasn’t sexualisation been used in advertisement since… literally forever…

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10 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Do women walk around in European parks deep-throating foot long hot dog sausages?

I've seen worse at the seats above the market in Norwich.... wasn't a foot long though,😇....the one in Norwich ,that is.

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1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

This is yet another knee-jerk, social media pile-on trying to scapegoat an employee out of his job. 

Normally I would totally agree with you, that there is often a social media fuelled over reaction that calls for a head on a plate. (Side note: the debate whether this forum is social media or not has been run before but I’ve not seen any call for head rolling outside of the forum tbh)

I genuinely feel this is different situation as it’s about accountability and making sure the custodians of the club are fit and proper and acting in its best interests.

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I'm not particularly fussed about BK8 or the business being sponsored (yet again) by a gambling company. What I find a bit annoying is this insistance that we are a wholesome family club. Scratch below the service and some of the strategy clearly isn't aligned, and clearly club values aren't what some like to think they are.

Kensell is employed to make money for the club and in a rather clumsy sort of way he does this. Whether he could have done this better who knows. Ultimately responsibility lays with the Board and the owners. I'm not saying they are wrong either but would say they need to stop making themselves into something they are not.

As someone said on another thread it's all about the money. If the £5m or whatever it is helps towards Premier League survival then I'm ok with it tbh.

There are far more serious issues in the world at the moment.

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