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Dean Coneys boots

Looking a gift horse in the mouth

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How many times can a club squander the opportunity gifted by promotion? Asking for a friend…

season 1: obviously need a striker - wait too late to sign Ashton and get relegated 

season 2: obviously need a defender - wait too late to sign Klose and get relegated 

season 3: spend £2.50 and fail to land a single player capable of breaking into starting XI and get relegated 

season 4: sell best player and main assist maker to a rival and…we shall see 

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21 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

How many times can a club squander the opportunity gifted by promotion? Asking for a friend…

season 1: obviously need a striker - wait too late to sign Ashton and get relegated 

season 2: obviously need a defender - wait too late to sign Klose and get relegated 

season 3: spend £2.50 and fail to land a single player capable of breaking into starting XI and get relegated 

season 4: sell best player and main assist maker to a rival and…we shall see 

Based on history I'd say 'many times'.

OK, you've had your answer, now stop posting the same question over and over again.

Go and have good cry in private.

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You see, there is a difference this year. The previous three relegations you quoted the club had very little cash to play with. 
 

This time we are in a different boat and there is now serious money to strengthen. Of course it depends on how much and on how well it’s spent but we should at least be in a position to give it a go. Big transfer window for SW

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6 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

You see, there is a difference this year. The previous three relegations you quoted the club had very little cash to play with. 
This time we are in a different boat and there is now serious money to strengthen. Of course it depends on how much and on how well it’s spent but we should at least be in a position to give it a go. Big transfer window for SW

There is some money, but we have had a £30m shortfall because of covid, so there may not be as much as some might think.  If we sell one more, maybe Aarons, then yes, the amount to spend will be more exciting.

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46 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

How many times can a club squander the opportunity gifted by promotion? Asking for a friend…

season 1: obviously need a striker - wait too late to sign Ashton and get relegated 

season 2: obviously need a defender - wait too late to sign Klose and get relegated 

season 3: spend £2.50 and fail to land a single player capable of breaking into starting XI and get relegated 

season 4: sell best player and main assist maker to a rival and…we shall see 

So why aren't you jumping with joy that Webber has got this deal done early in order to provide significant funds to strengthen the squad well in time for the beginning of the new season?

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51 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

How many times can a club squander the opportunity gifted by promotion? Asking for a friend…

season 1: obviously need a striker - wait too late to sign Ashton and get relegated 

season 2: obviously need a defender - wait too late to sign Klose and get relegated 

season 3: spend £2.50 and fail to land a single player capable of breaking into starting XI and get relegated 

season 4: sell best player and main assist maker to a rival and…we shall see 

I'm sure you'd do a better job than Webber. Send in a job application.

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Casually misses out the seasons we did stay up in the Premier League for one.

I'm not sure we 'squandered' the opportunity from our last promotion either. We knew exactly what we were doing to financially stabilise the club, invest in infrastructure, maintain an affordable wage bill, protect the future of the club, improve the youth academy both in terms of players and infrastructure....oh and then get promoted again the immediate season after anyway.

 

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

There is some money, but we have had a £30m shortfall because of covid, so there may not be as much as some might think.  If we sell one more, maybe Aarons, then yes, the amount to spend will be more exciting.

Was't Godfrey sold to cover that? And Lewis?

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1 minute ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Was't Godfrey sold to cover that? And Lewis?

How did we finance the Giannoulis and Gibson signings then? Not to mention they've been a considerable improvement.

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2 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Yawn. You are tiresome. Come back with some fresh material.

But he's correct. 

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7 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Was't Godfrey sold to cover that? And Lewis?

It certainly feels like the fans get shortchanged -  big transfer fees in, promotion wealth x2 and yet little of it seems to get spent on the squad. Gibson and Giannoulis are decent signings but the fee for Jamal covers them alone 

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Just now, Dean Coneys boots said:

It certainly feels like the fans get shortchanged -  big transfer fees in, promotion wealth x2 and yet little of it seems to get spent on the squad. Gibson and Giannoulis are decent signings but the fee for Jamal covers them alone 

It doesn't, as it ignores the likes of signing on fees, wages, etc.

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4 minutes ago, City fan said:

But he's correct. 

I mean he's not; he's cherry picking. He also brings everything down to being Delia's fault, eventually. I'm not sure it's Delia's fault that McNally tried to sign Kouliably who was never going to come to us in the summer and didn't have adequate back up options.

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1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

It doesn't, as it ignores the likes of signing on fees, wages, etc.

They were both signed upon promotion as well which means they'll be Premier League level wages (albeit at the lower end of them, you'd think)

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

There is some money, but we have had a £30m shortfall because of covid, so there may not be as much as some might think.  If we sell one more, maybe Aarons, then yes, the amount to spend will be more exciting.

this covid hole is surely all relative? Every side in the world will have a "covid hole" so why does it seem we are the only ones getting punished?

Does this mean we'll now get some bargains to cover up other sides covid holes like getting Armstrong from Blackburn or Tosin from Fulham?

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It’s not about blaming Delia - it’s about pointing out that we lack the investment to take this club any further and I believe it is time for new ownership. You might not like that view but it’s perfectly reasonable. 

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For me we just need to be a bit braver this year in regards to going over budget. The budget Webber is given is one that ensures we end the year at the very least breaking even. I personally think with the assets we have in the squad we can afford to go 10m odd over budget if it means getting the right players in and if it doesn't work out then we sell Cantwell and or Idah next year.

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7 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

It’s not about blaming Delia - it’s about pointing out that we lack the investment to take this club any further and I believe it is time for new ownership. You might not like that view but it’s perfectly reasonable. 

exactly. We've done unbelievably well to even get yo yo status with this current model but this appears to be our ceiling.

Is this it? Or are we hoping to genuinely compete as a regular lower prem side?

The days of being "happy to be in the prem and enjoying the days out to the big boys" are done now and fans rightly want a bit more otherwise what's the point?

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, City fan said:

But he's correct. 

Given that the definition of squander is "to spend extravagantly or foolishly", he is clearly not (correct). He wishes we had spent and saying that we didn't.

 

Of course, his argument hinges on us not just spending, but spending well, so we would have had to splashed the cash on players who weren't Duda, Amadou, RVW, Naismith or any of the other examples of when we did spend and actually wasted the money on duds.

Edited by Nuff Said

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6 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Given that the definition of squander is "to spend extravagantly or foolishly", he is clearly not (correct). He wishes we had spent and saying that we didn't.

 

Of course, his argument hinges on us not just spending, but spending well, so we would have had to splashed the cash on players who weren't Duda, Amadou, RVW, Naismith or any of the other examples of when we did spend and actually wasted the money on duds.

By squandering the opportunity I was clearly referring to the fact that many clubs would give their eye teeth for a shot in the premiership- and give it a real go to stay up. But we  always seem to roll over and not really try to stay up. 

Also I struggle with people who delight in pointing out that transfers also involve wage costs etc - isn’t that true for every team? Why then do we use it as an excuse for being unambitious?

I also note that the very same people who gave grief last time people bemoaned the obvious lack of ambition - are now happy to admit it was true once Webber himself admitted it. So we were right then- why are we wrong now? 

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Just now, Dean Coneys boots said:

By squandering the opportunity I was clearly referring to the fact that many clubs would give their eye teeth for a shot in the premiership- and give it a real go to stay up. But we  always seem to roll over and not really try to stay up. 

Also I struggle with people who delight in pointing out that transfers also involve wage costs etc - isn’t that true for every team? Why then do we use it as an excuse for being unambitious?

I also note that the very same people who gave grief last time people bemoaned the obvious lack of ambition - are now happy to admit it was true once Webber himself admitted it. So we were right then- why are we wrong now? 

They're not using it as an excuse for being unambitious. They're explaining how the finances stack up, particularly when our model is built around financial prudence.

Furthermore, it does not necessarily equate to "lack of ambition". In this case it arguably means "ambition with prudence". This does not mean we're "rolling over", it means we're trying a different tack.

The whole comment is based on flawed premises.

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2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

By squandering the opportunity I was clearly referring to the fact that many clubs would give their eye teeth for a shot in the premiership- and give it a real go to stay up. But we  always seem to roll over and not really try to stay up. 

Also I struggle with people who delight in pointing out that transfers also involve wage costs etc - isn’t that true for every team? Why then do we use it as an excuse for being unambitious?

I also note that the very same people who gave grief last time people bemoaned the obvious lack of ambition - are now happy to admit it was true once Webber himself admitted it. So we were right then- why are we wrong now? 

What I struggle with is the blind insistence that spending money=ambition. You can be ambitious but skint. Webber has NOT said the club wasn't ambitious last time, he said what we tried didn't work.

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Just now, Nuff Said said:

What I struggle with is the blind insistence that spending money=ambition. You can be ambitious but skint. Webber has NOT said the club wasn't ambitious last time, he said what we tried didn't work.

Actually he apologised for sending Farke into gun a fight with a knife. That is a clear admission that we were too cautious and didn’t give ourselves any chance of survival 

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47 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

How did we finance the Giannoulis and Gibson signings then? Not to mention they've been a considerable improvement.

Parachute payments ? 2 years premier League money ? 

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2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Actually he apologised for sending Farke into gun a fight with a knife. That is a clear admission that we were too cautious and didn’t give ourselves any chance of survival 

He did make that comment, true. However, no-one could have legislated for three centre-halves being injured at once for half the season, or indeed all our loan signings generally not working out, although I'll always maintain Fährmann was a decent deal as it clearly got the best out of Krul.

I don't think anyone could legislate for a Covid pandemic either. The effects of that across clubs will be interesting. I have a suspicion we might be coming up well here, showing a benefit of our model.

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Just now, TheGunnShow said:

He did make that comment, true. However, no-one could have legislated for three centre-halves being injured at once for half the season, or indeed all our loan signings generally not working out, although I'll always maintain Fährmann was a decent deal as it clearly got the best out of Krul.

I don't think anyone could legislate for a Covid pandemic either. The effects of that across clubs will be interesting. I have a suspicion we might be coming up well here, showing a benefit of our model.

FFP is going to be interesting thats for sure  - all these teams still throwing money around at the moment with a year of no fans

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4 minutes ago, Haus said:

Parachute payments ? 2 years premier League money ? 

Pretty certain that doesn't come all at once.

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Just now, Haus said:

FFP is going to be interesting thats for sure  - all these teams still throwing money around at the moment with a year of no fans

Yep, totally agreed on that one. Can see a lot of fudged figures a la Derby County or Bournemouth on this.

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Just now, TheGunnShow said:

Pretty certain that doesn't come all at once.

same as transfer fees and wages dont come all at once either.

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