Get promoted. Sell your best player.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

Nobodys answered the original question though?

...last time we did it was 85/86 where we sold both Watson and Woods in the same summer (finished 5th the following season , replacing them with Butterworth and Gunn)

...cant think of too many clubs who have done this off the top of my head??

[hogesar 9,618]

5 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I saw that photo last week, and thought about it again yesterday afternoon.

It's like seeing your ex with her new bloke and realising something was going on behind your back.

Unfortunately re-enforces how Emi was likely pushing for this move. Webber tends to be pretty open about it if its the case (remember Howson?) 

Actually speaking about Howson, he's not a bad example. When Webber pointed out he was desperate for the move, Webber received a bit of stick and abuse on here about how he didn't know what he was doing and we'd never sign anyone as good with our finances.

The rest, as people say, is history.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,781]

Just now, hogesar said:

Unfortunately re-enforces how Emi was likely pushing for this move. Webber tends to be pretty open about it if its the case (remember Howson?) 

Actually speaking about Howson, he's not a bad example. When Webber pointed out he was desperate for the move, Webber received a bit of stick and abuse on here about how he didn't know what he was doing and we'd never sign anyone as good with our finances.

The rest, as people say, is history.

I think it's pretty clear Buendia was pushing for this move. The only alternative is that we accepted a bid and pushed him out against his will, which is quite frankly ludicrous.

[Indy_Bones 441]

Let's be totally clear here, there's no directly attributable quote from the player saying "I want to move", but as many others have also alluded to - anything else simply doesn't make any sense.

Webber has been very honest and transparent with us as fans from day 1, he accepts responsibility for failures and has made a whole host of changes at the club all of which are designed to make us better, more attractive, more succesful and all whilst keeping us financially stable.

Firstly, when bids have come in under what we're willing to accept, be this for Lewis (Liverpool), Godfrey (Everton's Initial Bid), Max (Barca and Roma) or Emi (Arsenal), Webber has simply rejected them and basically said not to come back unless you're willing to pay what we want.

Secondly, it's pretty obvious that we've improved our team quality quite a bit since Webber came in, and there's been zero evidence of him trying to sell players on the cheap unless we actually wanted rid of them (e.g. Drmic).

Thirdly, we've been clearly told what sort of financial position the club is in, what approximate funds we had available for signings, and that we have absolutely no need to sell, so unless it's a big offer that too good to refuse or if a player is looking to leave, we won't be letting anyone go.

Fourthly, there was clearly an issue with Emi at a point last season, we can all speculate as to the reason (interest from Arsenal which caused a head turn is the most plausible reason I've heard), but it lead to a run of poor performances and Farke dropping him, and this is where the suggestion that a gentleman's agreement regarding a sale this summer came from - again, no concrete evidence on either.

Finally, there's not a fan, manager or anyone else out there who doesn't consider Emi one of our key players, probably the most valuable asset we had on paper, the creative genius which has helped Pukki storm the scoring charts whilst weighing in with goals and assists themselves, so what possible reason could we have to want this player to leave the club?

Now take all these factors into account and ask yourself which is more likely:

1) Webber is simply jumping the gun, cashing in early and forcing one of integral players out of the club, knowing full well that a direct replacement simply isn't just around the next door and what impact this could have on our chances of staying up, or

2) Emi has wanted a move since our relegation, had his head turned by suggestions of Arsenal, Athletico and similar, but was told if he knuckled down and helped us back up, we'd let him have his move this summer to a club who would pay the asking price and if he wanted to go there?

I'm pretty damn sure that Leicester weren't looking to offload either Kante or Mahrez when they did (winning the league not enough?), but I didn't see any suggestion at that point that they were lacking in ambition, that they were forcing Kante out or that they were foolishly selling their best players when they didn't have to, and that's a club with FAR more wealthy owners who could easily pay bigger wages and had just won the PL ffs, so why did they let them go - Because the players wanted the moves and the price was right.

Funny how it's perfectly ok and plausible when it happens to a bigger club than us, yet somehow we're different and it's all Webber's fault? Pull the other one ffs.

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

32 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

Let's be totally clear here, there's no directly attributable quote from the player saying "I want to move", but as many others have also alluded to - anything else simply doesn't make any sense.

Webber has been very honest and transparent with us as fans from day 1, he accepts responsibility for failures and has made a whole host of changes at the club all of which are designed to make us better, more attractive, more succesful and all whilst keeping us financially stable.

Firstly, when bids have come in under what we're willing to accept, be this for Lewis (Liverpool), Godfrey (Everton's Initial Bid), Max (Barca and Roma) or Emi (Arsenal), Webber has simply rejected them and basically said not to come back unless you're willing to pay what we want.

Secondly, it's pretty obvious that we've improved our team quality quite a bit since Webber came in, and there's been zero evidence of him trying to sell players on the cheap unless we actually wanted rid of them (e.g. Drmic).

Thirdly, we've been clearly told what sort of financial position the club is in, what approximate funds we had available for signings, and that we have absolutely no need to sell, so unless it's a big offer that too good to refuse or if a player is looking to leave, we won't be letting anyone go.

Fourthly, there was clearly an issue with Emi at a point last season, we can all speculate as to the reason (interest from Arsenal which caused a head turn is the most plausible reason I've heard), but it lead to a run of poor performances and Farke dropping him, and this is where the suggestion that a gentleman's agreement regarding a sale this summer came from - again, no concrete evidence on either.

Finally, there's not a fan, manager or anyone else out there who doesn't consider Emi one of our key players, probably the most valuable asset we had on paper, the creative genius which has helped Pukki storm the scoring charts whilst weighing in with goals and assists themselves, so what possible reason could we have to want this player to leave the club?

Now take all these factors into account and ask yourself which is more likely:

1) Webber is simply jumping the gun, cashing in early and forcing one of integral players out of the club, knowing full well that a direct replacement simply isn't just around the next door and what impact this could have on our chances of staying up, or

2) Emi has wanted a move since our relegation, had his head turned by suggestions of Arsenal, Athletico and similar, but was told if he knuckled down and helped us back up, we'd let him have his move this summer to a club who would pay the asking price and if he wanted to go there?

I'm pretty damn sure that Leicester weren't looking to offload either Kante or Mahrez when they did (winning the league not enough?), but I didn't see any suggestion at that point that they were lacking in ambition, that they were forcing Kante out or that they were foolishly selling their best players when they didn't have to, and that's a club with FAR more wealthy owners who could easily pay bigger wages and had just won the PL ffs, so why did they let them go - Because the players wanted the moves and the price was right.

Funny how it's perfectly ok and plausible when it happens to a bigger club than us, yet somehow we're different and it's all Webber's fault? Pull the other one ffs.

Bravo, yes you are spot on again.

I would also add to your last remark that it's funny how it's perfectly okay and plausible when we pluck a star player from a smaller fish ourselves! Remember Snodgrass?!

[sonyc 5,492]

37 minutes ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Bravo, yes you are spot on again.

I would also add to your last remark that it's funny how it's perfectly okay and plausible when we pluck a star player from a smaller fish ourselves! Remember Snodgrass?!

Indeed? Or Ashton, Maddison .....the list is long. We are just part of a football pyramid or food chain. Always have been. Yet now I would argue we are moving into different waters (apologies for mixing my metaphors now) and actually we are fishing from a finer lake than ever before. If you/we reflect for a moment, our recruitment ten years ago or longer was nothing like that of today. We are buying the potential stars of tomorrow (look at Flynn Clarke etc etc). We went to Newcastle for Hanley, Burnley for Gibson,  PAOK for Dimi etc. We are more becoming a top 20 club than ever in my view. And we are doing it in some style. (Ps. the Murphy's are more examples where we extracted value...though more out of necessity then).

It isn't that we should be seen as little Norwich but a proper business. After all, of course we are fans but someone has to also look after the bottom line. That will often mean change. It doesn't mean running your business either with people not 100% motivated in your cause. It is always a balance.

Let's just see what happens in the coming season. Proof is in the pudding. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by sonyc

[king canary 7,580]

15 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I am tickled by the notion that the only evidence that can be accepted for a player wanting a transfer is if they have issued a formal press statement to that effect, and that without that any amount of less formal evidence (such as exists in the case of Buendia) has to be discounted..

If I were a cynic I might think some posters would happily accept such non-formal evidence in the case of a player they are happy to see go (or indeed to come in) but not when there is an opportunity to slag off the club...

Works both ways though.

I'm sure Webber will come out and say Emi pushed for the move and that will be taken as gospel truth, even though it benefits the club from a PR stand point.

I have no doubt that Emi was interested in Villa, just what we'll never know is actually how hard we fought to keep him. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

36 minutes ago, king canary said:

Works both ways though.

I'm sure Webber will come out and say Emi pushed for the move and that will be taken as gospel truth, even though it benefits the club from a PR stand point.

I have no doubt that Emi was interested in Villa, just what we'll never know is actually how hard we fought to keep him. 

That is my major reservation. Just how hard did we try to keep him? If it was wages? If it was club size and potential?

 

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

I reckon we could have kept him but only if we weree willing to smash our wage structure and that's never going to happen.

[YellowSubmarine 39]

On 06/06/2021 at 10:30, Indy_Bones said:

And which clubs have come up from the Champs with a player of Emi's standard who's made it clear they want a move?

We could EASILY have lost the lot of them last year when we went down, instead it was just Lewis and Godfrey on the way out (for good fees btw), so would it have been better for us to lose Emi a year ago for probably 10-15 mil (or more) LESS than what we're getting now, and all on the back of him helping us get back up?

Somebody with some sense. Buendia wanted to leave last season and had an arrangement that if he delivered this season and got the club 25m+ he could leave. He delivered more which lead to the bigger fee. 

He doesn’t want to be here any longer. He wants to be in the national team regularly, aiming to play in Europe and more importantly paid what we can’t give him. 
 

This has been planned for since last summer

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

"This has been planned for since last summer"

Why do people make stuff up? There is no way you can know what Emi / Webber / the club have agreed.

I could equal say that Buendia was happy here, the club got an offer & told him they wanted to accept it. He then decided to move. We do not know and people should stop saying it's a fact. It maybe, it might not.

The player I expected to leave was Aarons and I think he still might. If that's the case, that's my top three performers from last year gone..... 

Those signings will have to be absolutely belters to go anywhere near making us stronger next season.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

It was glaringly obvious that Emi Buendia didn’t want to be here, and he’s got his wish. Anyone who doubts it must have been living in a cave - you only need to listen to the constant noise he was making in interviews about furthering his career and ‘we’ll see what the future holds’ blah blah blah - he really couldn’t have been more obvious about it!

And am pretty sure during all that disruption towards the end of that transfer window, Farke wasn’t giving Emi some time out for being way too committed to the Norwich City cause... 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

17 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I am tickled by the notion that the only evidence that can be accepted for a player wanting a transfer is if they have issued a formal press statement to that effect, and that without that any amount of less formal evidence (such as exists in the case of Buendia) has to be discounted..

Its equally ticking that Buendia is made out like some want-away player, just because he's agreed terms with another club.

I'm sure lots of players of a newly promoted team would jump to a higher club if a bid was accepted for them, does that make them want away players too? 

If we set out our stall higher and a club didn't meet our valuation, I expect he would've got his head down for another season with us like he and Cantwell did last year. 

[Indy_Bones 441]

Why do you seem so convinced that Webber blindly wanted to sell Emi just for the hell of it, especially after making it clear we don't need to sell?

There's been interest in him since LAST season from clubs like Arsenal, but apparently Webber is completely focused on selling arguably our best player for no good reason???

[The Bunny 305]

11 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

Why do you seem so convinced that Webber blindly wanted to sell Emi just for the hell of it, especially after making it clear we don't need to sell?

Well, it's pretty obvious. 

Webber's press statement was a very thinly disguised "come and get him for 30m". And that is exactly what transpired. 

It's not like we held out for weeks trying to get him to stay. This all went through very quickly. 

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

I buy the handshake last year line. Possibly could have waited and gotten more money but I'd imagine he's consious of missing out on other deals.

[Chip20 69]

Just to revert somewhat to the OP's question. I think we are comparing apples and oranges somewhat in that we are in a fairly rare position this year. To compare more directly we would have to ask which other teams have been promoted, kept this star player that got them there on relegation, then still had that same star player to sell on the next promotion. 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,181]

1 hour ago, The Bunny said:

Well, it's pretty obvious. 

Webber's press statement was a very thinly disguised "come and get him for 30m". And that is exactly what transpired. 

It's not like we held out for weeks trying to get him to stay. This all went through very quickly. 

Maybe we spent weeks/months during the season trying to persuade him to stay, and realised that it wasn't going to happen?

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,181]

5 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Its equally ticking that Buendia is made out like some want-away player, just because he's agreed terms with another club.

I'm sure lots of players of a newly promoted team would jump to a higher club if a bid was accepted for them, does that make them want away players too? 

If we set out our stall higher and a club didn't meet our valuation, I expect he would've got his head down for another season with us like he and Cantwell did last year. 

Fair point 

I hope he was perfectly happy in his last few months with us. 

Just wanted a  bigger stage and felt the time was right to leave 

Good luck to him, except when playing us

😊

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

5 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Its equally ticking that Buendia is made out like some want-away player, just because he's agreed terms with another club.

I'm sure lots of players of a newly promoted team would jump to a higher club if a bid was accepted for them, does that make them want away players too? 

If we set out our stall higher and a club didn't meet our valuation, I expect he would've got his head down for another season with us like he and Cantwell did last year. 

Possibly, but not something I have claimed.🤩

Edited June 7, 2021 by PurpleCanary