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Tony DaWonderful

Was this already agreed with Emi last season?

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Posted (edited)

This now has a total feel of 'get us back to the Premiership and you can pick your deal' ...'with whoever!!!'

This would of been drummed out when he and cantwell... the two who were involved in missing early doors last season in my opinion.

Absolutely gutted he has chosen Villa though and cannot get my head around it. Unfortunately for Emi probably the best player to have worn the Green and Yellow he won't be walking away with the most respect.

Edited by Tony DaWonderful

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Tony DaWonderful said:

This now has a total feel of 'get us back to the Premiership and you can pick your deal' ...'with whoever!!!'

This would of been drummed out when he and cantwell... the two who were involved in missing early doors last season in my opinion.

Absolutely gutted he has chosen Villa though and cannot get my head around it. Unfortunately for Emi probably the best player to have worn the Green and Yellow he won't be walking away with the most respect.

I think this is the thing. We have to offset that possible agreement with what it’s given us this season. A return to the Premier League. We at least had him for another season than most would have expected, and he made sure that lockdown was somewhat more bearable. But I can’t lie, I do feel disappointment towards him, though certainly not towards the club or even Villa. This was ultimately Emi’s doing, and it’s clear he certainly didn’t leave us for silverware and Europe, which ultimately was what I thought the whole point of him moving on would be.

Edited by Alex Moss
Added text at end
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12 minutes ago, Tony DaWonderful said:

This now has a total feel of 'get us back to the Premiership and you can pick your deal' ...'with whoever!!!'

This would of been drummed out when he and cantwell... the two who were involved in missing early doors last season in my opinion.

Absolutely gutted he has chosen Villa though and cannot get my head around it. Unfortunately for Emi probably the best player to have worn the Green and Yellow he won't be walking away with the most respect.

It probably was but the final fee is laughable, check out what Villa fans think. 

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13 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

It probably was but the final fee is laughable, check out what Villa fans think. 

It was 35 MILLION pounds +. It's a bloody good fee. What is wrong with you?

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7 minutes ago, Herman said:

It was 35 MILLION pounds +. It's a bloody good fee. What is wrong with you?

No it's not! It's £33m and I think that is an absolute bargain. It's not a great fee. Villa have a price of £120m for Freakish, Madison is now £80m. Really poor from the club but totally predictable.

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40 million would have been a brilliant fee. 35 is a great one. Get a grip.

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Posted (edited)

£35m is slightly on the low side, but the 10% sell-on clause is probably going to be very useful. Don't know what the add-ons are, but I suspect one will be linked to getting into Europe and another will be for Argentina caps.

Edited by TheGunnShow

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10 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

No it's not! It's £33m and I think that is an absolute bargain. It's not a great fee. Villa have a price of £120m for Freakish, Madison is now £80m. Really poor from the club but totally predictable.

But Maddison and Grealish were not valued anywhere near that when they were in the Championship; they actually had to have a couple of excellent seasons in the Premier League before they increased their value to those sort of levels, and even then, I doubt anyone would pay the figures you quote.

We've sold Buendia for our record sale, Villa's record buy and a higher figure than any Championship or newly-promoted Premier League side have ever sold a player for. During Corona times, too.

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55 minutes ago, Tony DaWonderful said:

This now has a total feel of 'get us back to the Premiership and you can pick your deal' ...'with whoever!!!'

This would of been drummed out when he and cantwell... the two who were involved in missing early doors last season in my opinion.

Absolutely gutted he has chosen Villa though and cannot get my head around it. Unfortunately for Emi probably the best player to have worn the Green and Yellow he won't be walking away with the most respect.

Stop starting new Emi threads. You're going to hell

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Possibly, if so it's right to let him go. At the end of the day players come and go, yes there will be disappointment for a while, but new favourites will come that's just football. Its not unique to us, Spurs are 99% likely to lose their best player this summer. 

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10 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

It probably was but the final fee is laughable, check out what Villa fans think. 

It's not. People think it's laughable because they see a fee for another player and feel Buendia is a better player which makes him worth more.

But that just demonstrates naivety and a complete lack of understanding for how football works. People have gone into detail about this on other threads and you have repeatedly ignore them and continued with your Greek tragedy style performance of official mourning.

We get that YOU feel he was worth more but that doesn't mean he is worth more. Now please, give it a bit of a rest, take a break and go get a cup of tea or something.

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Any player is only worth what another club are willing to spend on them regardless of talent or perceived value.

Was Coutinho worth £142 million? Not in my view, but Barca were willing to pay it.

We could have valued Buendia at £200 million, but if nobody was ever going to pay that, then it's simply an arbitrary value designed to do nothing more than try to prevent any deal ever happening.

When a player makes it clear they want to move, the goalposts change, as you know a deal realistically needs to happen, and then it comes down to which clubs are interested and how much they will pay.

I do feel Emi is a 50+ million player, but clearly no other club did, and if the likes of Arsenal or Athletico really wanted him, then they'd have put in a bid to at least match Villa, if not completely beat them - they didn't. Which leaves us with a player determined to move, no better offers on the table, and a need to start our own recruitment asap, thus the deal happens, even if it's at a value below what many of us think is fair.

It will be interesting to see what other deals happen across the globe in the next couple of months as we'll have more data to show the real impact Covid has had on finances and valuations, but outside of the ultra-rich clubs, I expect values to be somewhat lower than many would think, and it may well show we actually got a relatively fair deal all things considered, or it could show that Villa got a complete bargain (even if there was little we could do to prevent it).

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10 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

No it's not! It's £33m and I think that is an absolute bargain. It's not a great fee. Villa have a price of £120m for Freakish, Madison is now £80m. Really poor from the club but totally predictable.

Nobody is going to pay 50+ mill for an established championship player that's had one outing in the premier league and scored 1 goal.

Those valuations of Grealish and Madders mean nothing unless somebody actually bids, it's just pie in the sky. 

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It certainly seems like it which is a shame. He flopped last time in the prem which is why his fee is lower than it should be. Another season in the prem would have raised his stock no end so it's a shame we're letting him go a season too soon

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3 minutes ago, Wardogz said:

Nobody is going to pay 50+ mill for an established championship player that's had one outing in the premier league and scored 1 goal.

Those valuations of Grealish and Madders mean nothing unless somebody actually bids, it's just pie in the sky. 

Yep. Plus it's a depressed market with covid effects still being felt across football finances.

Webber came up with the price tag, so he must feel at that level the cash is more wisely reinvested in the squad than tied up in one player (who might get injured or might fail to impress at the Premier league level again).

Tbh it's difficult right now to believe Webber was right on that, but let's see who we sign first. Hopefully doing this early in the window works in our favour

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1 hour ago, chicken said:

It's not. People think it's laughable because they see a fee for another player and feel Buendia is a better player which makes him worth more.

But that just demonstrates naivety and a complete lack of understanding for how football works. People have gone into detail about this on other threads and you have repeatedly ignore them and continued with your Greek tragedy style performance of official mourning.

We get that YOU feel he was worth more but that doesn't mean he is worth more. Now please, give it a bit of a rest, take a break and go get a cup of tea or something.

Had a lovely mocha which should stimulate me to write more wise words soon enough. I very much hope you enjoy reading them and any positive feedback would be appreciated. 

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17 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Had a lovely mocha which should stimulate me to write more wise words soon enough. I very much hope you enjoy reading them and any positive feedback would be appreciated. 

Mocha.!!!..... a totally girly whingers drink. What a wooss,!!!!

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2 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Mocha.!!!..... a totally girly whingers drink. What a wooss,!!!!

What's wrong with a nice coffee? Back in my day grumble grumble..

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2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

What's wrong with a nice coffee? Back in my day grumble grumble..

Having a Cortado right now, nothing wrong with coffee.... but mocha? Its the coffee equivalent of lager and blackcurrant 😇😇😇

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11 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

But Maddison and Grealish were not valued anywhere near that when they were in the Championship; they actually had to have a couple of excellent seasons in the Premier League before they increased their value to those sort of levels, and even then, I doubt anyone would pay the figures you quote.

We've sold Buendia for our record sale, Villa's record buy and a higher figure than any Championship or newly-promoted Premier League side have ever sold a player for. During Corona times, too.

This is true. But it’s also true that if Buendia were already a Villa player right now, with the same level of experience etc, in no way would they let him go for £35mil.

So quite literally overnight in changing shirts from Norwich to Villa his transfer fee goes from £35mil to £45-50mil. In that respect it is disappointing, we obviously just don’t have the financial power or stature that they do to demand more sadly or keep hold of him and fend off interest.

Instead we’ve let our heart and soul go for a fee which does not come close to representing his value and contribution to our team which is absolutely massive. 

A proper humbling sale for a lot of fans who probably saw Villa as a club we could and should be aiming to compete with next season. Guess that’s unrealistic now!

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On a more positive note, we did win the championship after selling Maddison which absolutely no one would’ve come close predicting. 

1500 - 1 to win the league next season...

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2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

This is true. But it’s also true that if Buendia were already a Villa player right now, with the same level of experience etc, in no way would they let him go for £35mil.

So quite literally overnight in changing shirts from Norwich to Villa his transfer fee goes from £35mil to £45-50mil. In that respect it is disappointing, we obviously just don’t have the financial power or stature that they do to demand more sadly or keep hold of him and fend off interest.

The flip side is that if he were wearing any shirt with a Skybet Championship logo on the sleeve, you can knock another £10m off the transfer fee that we're going to receive.

Unfortunately it's the food chain. We'll lose players to Everton, Villa, Leicester etc. right now but we'll be able to pick up most players in the Football League should we choose.

I'm just disappointed that Emi hasn't made a bigger jump.

 

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2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The flip side is that if he were wearing any shirt with a Skybet Championship logo on the sleeve, you can knock another £10m off the transfer fee that we're going to receive.

Unfortunately it's the food chain. We'll lose players to Everton, Villa, Leicester etc. right now but we'll be able to pick up most players in the Football League should we choose.

I'm just disappointed that Emi hasn't made a bigger jump.

 

I’m with you but I just wouldn’t have put Villa in the same bracket as Leicester and Everton, more the bracket below which is where I feel we should be aiming for. And yes it seems a weird decision from Emi, he’ll realistically be there for at least 2 seasons and more if Villa dig their heels in like they have done with Grealish. 

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35 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

This is true. But it’s also true that if Buendia were already a Villa player right now, with the same level of experience etc, in no way would they let him go for £35mil.

So quite literally overnight in changing shirts from Norwich to Villa his transfer fee goes from £35mil to £45-50mil.

Sorry but that's just junk.

A players valuation will automatically go up straight after they sign for someone else due to them having just moved and signed a contract with a new club. This is usually because the new contract will have higher wages, will be longer and the new club have just signed them.

Buendia's value has only gone up because of that, not because of the shirt he is wearing. Villa won the bidding war, that means other clubs were not willing to meet that valuation. Which means it is highly unlikely he is worth more overnight because that would suggest a team is wanting to sign him for more - which there is zero evidence of.

Not only that, but Villa have a wealthy owner who can offset money and can afford to rebuff and it means they don't need to sell to rebuild.

As for if Buendia were a Villa player given the same experience he would be worth more than £35mil - I disagree. One relegation PL season and two championship promotion campaigns. If he was with Villa before, he would have played more than one season of PL football, and remember - he did struggle to adapt that season, becoming a bit of a liability in our own third/half. He improved upon that last season.

Grealish in comparison, was instrumental in both Villa's survival campaign and their amassing of 55pts to finish in 11th. Not to mention he is now regularly featured in the England sqauds and starting line ups and has surpassed Maddison in that regard. Buendia has just been rejected from the Copa America Agentina Squad.

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18 minutes ago, chicken said:

Sorry but that's just junk.

A players valuation will automatically go up straight after they sign for someone else due to them having just moved and signed a contract with a new club. This is usually because the new contract will have higher wages, will be longer and the new club have just signed them.

Buendia's value has only gone up because of that, not because of the shirt he is wearing. Villa won the bidding war, that means other clubs were not willing to meet that valuation. Which means it is highly unlikely he is worth more overnight because that would suggest a team is wanting to sign him for more - which there is zero evidence of.

Not only that, but Villa have a wealthy owner who can offset money and can afford to rebuff and it means they don't need to sell to rebuild.

As for if Buendia were a Villa player given the same experience he would be worth more than £35mil - I disagree. One relegation PL season and two championship promotion campaigns. If he was with Villa before, he would have played more than one season of PL football, and remember - he did struggle to adapt that season, becoming a bit of a liability in our own third/half. He improved upon that last season.

Grealish in comparison, was instrumental in both Villa's survival campaign and their amassing of 55pts to finish in 11th. Not to mention he is now regularly featured in the England sqauds and starting line ups and has surpassed Maddison in that regard. Buendia has just been rejected from the Copa America Agentina Squad.

I disagree. I’m not talking about his new contract or the recent transfer, I’m just talking about him being at Villa in general. My comparison was him having the same contract as he does here, since joining Villa from Getafe 4 seasons ago without ever coming to NCFC. There is no way they would sell him to another club for what we have just done to them. And I wasn’t really comparing about which league both respective teams have been in for the past few seasons, but in all honesty he could’ve gone down with Villa last season and taken them back up like he has done with us and they still wouldn’t have sold him for what we have done.

It’s a sad realisation for where we are in the pecking order, and it’s even sadder to think that we absolutely won’t we’ll see Brentford sell Toney or Watford sell Sarr to a Palace, Wolves, Newcastle etc. for a similar sum.  

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5 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I disagree. I’m not talking about his new contract or the recent transfer, I’m just talking about him being at Villa in general. My comparison was him having the same contract as he does here, since joining Villa from Getafe 4 seasons ago without ever coming to NCFC. There is no way they would sell him to another club for what we have just done to them. And I wasn’t really comparing about which league both respective teams have been in for the past few seasons, but in all honesty he could’ve gone down with Villa last season and taken them back up like he has done with us and they still wouldn’t have sold him for what we have done.

It’s a sad realisation for where we are in the pecking order, and it’s even sadder to think that we absolutely won’t we’ll see Brentford sell Toney or Watford sell Sarr to a Palace, Wolves, Newcastle etc. for a similar sum.  

You will if they get relegated, the difference is we kept Emi for an extra year. Few people seem to be grasping we're in a totally different situation to Brentford. Emi wanted to leave a year ago, the impact of Covid stopped it. We got an extra year, when in normal circumstances, he'd have been sold. We'll see what happens with Sarr.

Nobody will bid 35 mill for Toney yet, he's not proved he can do it in the prem. 

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6 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I disagree. I’m not talking about his new contract or the recent transfer, I’m just talking about him being at Villa in general. My comparison was him having the same contract as he does here, since joining Villa from Getafe 4 seasons ago without ever coming to NCFC. There is no way they would sell him to another club for what we have just done to them. And I wasn’t really comparing about which league both respective teams have been in for the past few seasons, but in all honesty he could’ve gone down with Villa last season and taken them back up like he has done with us and they still wouldn’t have sold him for what we have done.

It’s a sad realisation for where we are in the pecking order, and it’s even sadder to think that we absolutely won’t we’ll see Brentford sell Toney or Watford sell Sarr to a Palace, Wolves, Newcastle etc. for a similar sum.  

That just makes your argument even more nuts.

So a player goes to a club that have a wealthier owner, spent £150million to stay up by one place in the PL, then to invest tens of millions more to push on to mid table, so has two seasons of continued PL improvement would be worth more than a player who has three seasons of regular higher level football, 2 in the Champs and 1 in the PL - who'd a thunk it?!!

It's not about pecking order. It's about models. The likes of Villa buy success, they also overpay for players. And in a couple of seasons they could be like Bournemouth. However, one also has to accept that until they were relegated, Villa had never been outside of the PL since it's inception. If you honestly thought Villa were ever our "equals" in terms of recent history then maybe that's worth reconsidering?

That is one of the reasons Grealish stayed and continues to stay. They are doing well.

As said before we didn't sell ANY of our star players upon promotion last time - in many ways that cost us. We were forced to shop in the bargain basement of loans and cheapies - meaning players not wanted or in Byram's case, coming with an injury record despite being clearly a very, very good player.

It needed a different strategy and that is exactly what Webber and Farke have been saying since. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Herman said:

It was 35 MILLION pounds +. It's a bloody good fee. What is wrong with you?

Its not a particularly good fee really is it, and most media outlets seem to be going with £33m rather than £35m, not when AWB went to Man Utd for £45m and he can't get in an England squad which chose four right backs. 

It is probably a fee which currently reflects the financial problems being caused by covid, but its only really a good fee if we spend it and get equally good value in the market. If we bank this money and wait for the crisis to tide over then its not a good fee at all.

Have to spend in this window, whilst there are desperate clubs and bargains to be had for it to turn out to be sensible business.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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