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Dean Coneys boots

The problem with our model

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Is that it keeps us static as a top champs side only. We keep selling the players capable of helping us step up and then fall back down and groom some more. 
 

the model works if your ambition is to yo-yo- it takes a more ambitious model to become established in the premiership 

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Just now, Dean Coneys boots said:

Is that it keeps us static as a top champs side only. We keep selling the players capable of helping us step up and then fall back down and groom some more. 
 

the model works if your ambition is to yo-yo- it takes a more ambitious model to become established in the premiership 

Thank god you can see it. This model will never make Norwich a top level team. Selling your best players gives Norwich no chance.

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Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Yes, but look on the bright side, it gives you sooo much to whinge about!!

Yes perhaps I should shelve my ambition then I could join you cheering that we are currently down our two best players in skipp and emi - and thus currently weaker not stronger than last season before a ball is kicked. Meaning a budget of more than £20 million is needed just to stand still - hurrah!  

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The point of this model is to ensure the club does not remotely run the risk of being in administration. Unlike the time when Delia and Michael saved the club first time out, then when we were the sales of Murphy and Maddison shy of tumbling there again. We've already seen what's possible with the sales of Godfrey and Lewis resulting in the acquisitions of Gibson and Giannoulis. They build up, then try to buy in better players with the proceeds, or players with potential to be far ahead of what was sold, with the target of remaining top 26, so 26th is basically the floor.

We've already seen how good the football is when it clicks. We've seen a radical improvement in the training facilities to enable such football to be honed. And we've moved away from being in financial trouble with an aging team and few saleable assets to being financially very stable (not wealthy, just very stable), a younger side, a reputation for good youth development and we play entertaining football all in the space of four years.

We've at least two more potential top lads coming off the production line in Idah and Omobamidele. Hell knows who else is emerging from there.

It hurts seeing Emi go to Villa when we all thought he had more in him, but they ultimately bid more than everyone else, and we've done this quickly enough to get new players in fast so we can give them a full pre-season training with the rest of the crew and get up to speed. Not ideal, but better such a deal is done early.

And no doubt plenty more promising youngsters will think "I will be treated well there at Norwich, they will develop me, they will let me play first-team football and maybe I can get a huge move/salary somewhere else!". Obviously, the ideal aim is to do it and develop the club at the same time, but by definition it means going backwards to go forwards.

Progress was never linear. Those who seem to think it was are kidding themselves. You often have to go backwards or sidewards to go forwards. This is a classic example if we can pull it off.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Yes perhaps I should shelve my ambition then I could join you cheering that we are currently down our two best players in skipp and emi - and thus currently weaker not stronger than last season before a ball is kicked. Meaning a budget of more than £20 million is needed just to stand still - hurrah!  

You do realise the season has just ended and we aren’t currently playing games, don’t you?  

Put simply, there’s 2 months until we restart, a lot of time to get and bed-in new players.  Perhaps you could have just a little bit of faith and save your wailing until we know where we actually stand, rather than assuming that everything will be doom and gloom.  I feel really sorry for people like you who can’t ever be optimistic.

 

Edited by Branston Pickle

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Just now, Branston Pickle said:

You do realise the season has just ended and we aren’t currently playing games, don’t you?  

Put simply, there’s 2 months until we restart, a lot of time to get and bed-in new players.  Perhaps you could have just a little bit of faith and save your wailing until we know where we actually stand, rather than assuming that everything will be doom and gloom. 

 

You said that last time we went up. None of the signings broke into our team and Webber later admitted we went into a gun fight without a gun. This time we will, apparently, spend a bit more but only from a position where we are down a £35 million pound player and skipp. So unless we spend over £50million it is unlikely our team will be any better than last year 

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37 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

You said that last time we went up. None of the signings broke into our team and Webber later admitted we went into a gun fight without a gun. This time we will, apparently, spend a bit more but only from a position where we are down a £35 million pound player and skipp. So unless we spend over £50million it is unlikely our team will be any better than last year 

Last season we sold Godfrey and Lewis for around about £40m in total. We bought (after loan) Gibson and Giannoulis for about £14m in total. Our defence performed far better with the latter two players than the former. There is no straightforward correlation between money spent and performance.

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I’m not just concerned with Emi leaving, I’m concerned with the impact on the remaining players. Teemu for example, Emi’s been his best asset, his usual source for chances, he struggled in the Prem last time and now with Emi gone he could fine it harder. Also Todd, the 2 of them played together as an attacking unit for 2 years, he’s often seen as one of our most promising young talents and is an Arsenal fan, if Emi does go to Villa I can see Todd pushing for a move out in the same vein, especially since he has yet to put pen to paper on a new contract. I also wonder how Max, Gibson, Krul etc are feeling, knowing how integral Emi is to the team cohesion and how our chances of staying up this time have taken a massive hit with him gone.

We understand this model, and the necessity of these kinds of sales as part of it. Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow.

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Just now, horsefly said:

Last season we sold Godfrey and Lewis for around about £40m in total. We bought (after loan) Gibson and Giannoulis for about £14m in total. Our defence performed far better with the latter two players than the former. There is no straightforward correlation between money spent and performance.

That I agree with. But I fear the gulf between champs and prem is massive and our ability to attract talent at this level is questionable at best. 

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1 minute ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I’m not just concerned with Emi leaving, I’m concerned with the impact on the remaining players. Teemu for example, Emi’s been his best asset, his usual source for chances, he struggled in the Prem last time and now with Emi gone he could fine it harder. Also Todd, the 2 of them played together as an attacking unit for 2 years, he’s often seen as one of our most promising young talents and is an Arsenal fan, if Emi does go to Villa I can see Todd pushing for a move out in the same vein, especially since he has yet to put pen to paper on a new contract. I also wonder how Max, Gibson, Krul etc are feeling, knowing how integral Emi is to the team cohesion and how our chances of staying up this time have taken a massive hit with him gone.

We understand this model, and the necessity of these kinds of sales as part of it. Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow.

Yes abs that is before we consider what this sale signals to incoming players about our ambition…

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Just now, Canary Wundaboy said:

I’m not just concerned with Emi leaving, I’m concerned with the impact on the remaining players. Teemu for example, Emi’s been his best asset, his usual source for chances, he struggled in the Prem last time and now with Emi gone he could fine it harder. Also Todd, the 2 of them played together as an attacking unit for 2 years, he’s often seen as one of our most promising young talents and is an Arsenal fan, if Emi does go to Villa I can see Todd pushing for a move out in the same vein, especially since he has yet to put pen to paper on a new contract. I also wonder how Max, Gibson, Krul etc are feeling, knowing how integral Emi is to the team cohesion and how our chances of staying up this time have taken a massive hit with him gone.

We understand this model, and the necessity of these kinds of sales as part of it. Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow.

I understand the disappointment about Emi leaving but these are experienced professional footballers you're talking about and transfers happen every season. I'm sure they will look forward to working with whoever else arrives.

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2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Yes abs that is before we consider what this sale signals to incoming players about our ambition…

I think it signals to ambitious players that City is a fantastic club for furthering their careers.

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Can I point out that it was this model that brought Buendia to the club. Cant have it both ways, we either are a club that finds exceptional talent and develops it, or we go back to buy 'established Premier league players' like Naismith. 

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6 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

That I agree with. But I fear the gulf between champs and prem is massive and our ability to attract talent at this level is questionable at best. 

I don't think Buendia staying would have made any real difference to the reality of our ability to attract PL level talent. If anything his departure frees up an opportunity for a talented player to come in, get lots of games, and show that he is genuine PL quality.

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So basically, keep Emi against his will. Yeah, that'll work...

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1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Is that it keeps us static as a top champs side only. We keep selling the players capable of helping us step up and then fall back down and groom some more. 
 

the model works if your ambition is to yo-yo- it takes a more ambitious model to become established in the premiership 

The plan is to stop us stagnating in the 2nd tier ever again. So far it's working.

Unless you sell the club to a billionaire there doesn't seem to be a more effective or exciting route. 

Don't forget, many Championship clubs are in awe of what we've got and are doing.

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37 minutes ago, Highland Canary said:

As this board continues to demonstrate our (so called) model is entirely aligned with the ambition of our fan base.

You're probably right. The following excerpt from an earlier post sums up how risk averse our fans have become..

"The point of this model is to ensure the club does not remotely run the risk of being in administration"

Not sure that is the point of the model at all, but it seems to be good enough for some that we merely survive and have money in the bank. 

Well tonight they will be celebrating. 

Webber now needs to set the model aside, just for this season, to give us a fleeting chance of avoiding relegation. We have money in the bank, deadwood players to get shot of and turn this disappointment into an opportunity.

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The problem with our model is also that these fans who get excited by our bank balance more than the talent on the pitch, seem to think that every single time we get relegated, we are guaranteed to come straight back up.

We aren't.

There are no guarantees, any team can have a stinker of a season, manager resigns, player injuries etc. Nothing is guaranteed, so this top 26 thing is nonsense. We should just strive to do the best we can, including trying to cement our place in the top flight rather than just accepting relegation before a ball has been kicked by selling our best players.

If Chase had sold Buendia there would be riots. We can't keep getting lucky forever.

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3 minutes ago, alex_ncfc said:

The problem with our model is also that these fans who get excited by our bank balance more than the talent on the pitch, seem to think that every single time we get relegated, we are guaranteed to come straight back up.

We aren't.

There are no guarantees, any team can have a stinker of a season, manager resigns, player injuries etc. Nothing is guaranteed, so this top 26 thing is nonsense. We should just strive to do the best we can, including trying to cement our place in the top flight rather than just accepting relegation before a ball has been kicked by selling our best players.

If Chase had sold Buendia there would be riots. We can't keep getting lucky forever.

You are describing how we were going about things pre Webber and it didn't work (it didn't keep us as a top 26 side and actually threatened our financial safety!).

This model is about not worrying about luck ... it's about building from the roots up.

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Is this the whinging bottle-job poster hattrick for tonight?

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1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Yes perhaps I should shelve my ambition then I could join you cheering that we are currently down our two best players in skipp and emi - and thus currently weaker not stronger than last season before a ball is kicked. Meaning a budget of more than £20 million is needed just to stand still - hurrah!  

Yep but l've had it now.... No club has ever been promoted and sold its talisman. I mean Villa... the club people on here saying thank god we are not them... the club we came up with.. 

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1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

The point of this model is to ensure the club does not remotely run the risk of being in administration. Unlike the time when Delia and Michael saved the club first time out, then when we were the sales of Murphy and Maddison shy of tumbling there again. We've already seen what's possible with the sales of Godfrey and Lewis resulting in the acquisitions of Gibson and Giannoulis. They build up, then try to buy in better players with the proceeds, or players with potential to be far ahead of what was sold, with the target of remaining top 26, so 26th is basically the floor.

We've already seen how good the football is when it clicks. We've seen a radical improvement in the training facilities to enable such football to be honed. And we've moved away from being in financial trouble with an aging team and few saleable assets to being financially very stable (not wealthy, just very stable), a younger side, a reputation for good youth development and we play entertaining football all in the space of four years.

We've at least two more potential top lads coming off the production line in Idah and Omobamidele. Hell knows who else is emerging from there.

It hurts seeing Emi go to Villa when we all thought he had more in him, but they ultimately bid more than everyone else, and we've done this quickly enough to get new players in fast so we can give them a full pre-season training with the rest of the crew and get up to speed. Not ideal, but better such a deal is done early.

And no doubt plenty more promising youngsters will think "I will be treated well there at Norwich, they will develop me, they will let me play first-team football and maybe I can get a huge move/salary somewhere else!". Obviously, the ideal aim is to do it and develop the club at the same time, but by definition it means going backwards to go forwards.

Progress was never linear. Those who seem to think it was are kidding themselves. You often have to go backwards or sidewards to go forwards. This is a classic example if we can pull it off.

 

Good post. The prime directive for the owners of any business (and a football club is ultimately a business) is to stay in business. Boring but true. And even more relevant in a pandemic that eliminates that business's prime source of income.

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12 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Yep but l've had it now.... No club has ever been promoted and sold its talisman. I mean Villa... the club people on here saying thank god we are not them... the club we came up with.. 

The club that in under every criteria you could think of is a step up the food chain.

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