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Midlands Yellow

Who’s in shock

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Okay maybe a bit of an exaggeration but this thing has been pretty public the whole way. The point I was making is we absolutely could’ve gotten a better fee. I never said the first offer was accepted, but objectively looking at the position in the window for the sides and the timing it’s pretty clear this isn’t the absolute maximum we could get, is it not?

As I said, I could easily accept the quick sale approach for Aarons, or Cantwell. As I see these players a replaceable, and a fee of £30 mil I also could see replacing these. But a similar or slightly better fee under the same approach for the sale of Buendia, who is absolutely indispensable to our style of play, and priceless to the team? I just can’t be happy with, sorry 😔

Well you did say, "...don’t just sell him to Villa at the first sign of a fee" but let's not quibble over that. It may well be true that if we waited until the end of the transfer window we could have squeezed an extra couple of million for him, but then so would a club selling us a replacement squeeze an extra couple of million out of us knowing our desperation. Personally I would rather sell early in order to get in a replacement as early as possible. Let's hope we do so. 

Buendia has been angling for a move for sometime as is evidenced by his not so cryptic comments ever since demotion. That we got another rather splendid season out of him is a credit to him and to  Farke and Webber. Yes it's bloody frustrating that we are not quite big enough to retain a player of his exceptional talents, but since when has it been any different in our history? But before we beat our chests in despair we should perhaps consider the position of clubs like Coventry (imagine how it felt to lose Maddison for the fee we paid for him). Finally, I have to say I don't think any player is "indispensible" to any team, players come and go even at the very best of clubs.

Edited by horsefly

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I think £35M early in the window is decent business, the true value will depend on who we can buy to replace him and how much they cost.  I think it is going to be a whirlwind transfer window, I am half expecting 2 or 3 more to leave if the money is right, if so a hugely different side come August.

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8 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

What is the number for the hotline please?

Haha! Perhaps it should go straight to Webber's mobile phone.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Jezzard said:

Looking forward to the bit when we get told that we don’t receive the full amount in one instalment, although this doesn’t seem to apply to any potential purchases 

When you go to buy a new car they will always offer you an alternative to buying the car outright up front - lets face it, not a lot of people can drop that money. They offer something called finance.

Norwich have bought players on deals with instalments, but if we have indeed signed fewer on instalments it is because most of the players we have signed down the years haven't been expensive enough and teams have probably demanded we coughed up the £1.5-2mil in advance.

Remember, although we sold Sutton for a record breaking £5mil, it took us a long time to get to a position to  be able to spend £5million on a player. I think I am right in saying we have only a handful of players that have cost more than that in fact - RVW, Naismith and Klose off the top of my head.

Edited by chicken

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10 hours ago, horsefly said:

If we're selling him below a realistic price why haven't other clubs (especially Arsenal) gazumped the Villa bid? 

Exactly. I’m sure once Villas offer was accepted any other clubs who had shown an interest would have found out via the back channels what the deal was worth. The fact that none came in with an improved offer implies they thought he wasn’t worth any more, and for a player who’s only had a single half decent season in the top flight you can’t really blame them. Emi is a cracking player, and I believe he’ll end up at a bigger club than Villa, but currently they’re a stepping stone the same as we were, and if they sell him for £50m+ in a year or two then we’ve got over £40m for him in total

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8 hours ago, curious yellow said:

OK, he will probably improve but we took the risk where others wouldn't, took him from a lower division and turned him into a player who is capable playing at the very top, so not so much of a risk for Villa and more to gain. 

I cannot see that we are relying on this sale to fund our purchases, ie selling so we can buy a lesser player. Webber said that we don't need to sell, only if the price is right. We wanted 40M, they offer 30M (plus some more, say if he scores a hat-trick in a world cup final) and we snap their hand off. 

We won’t be buying a single lesser player. If we can sell a player destined for a major club, and buy three players of mid table premier league quality then you’ve given yourself more of a chance of staying up 

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4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Well you did say, "...don’t just sell him to Villa at the first sign of a fee" but let's not quibble over that. It may well be true that if we waited until the end of the transfer window we could have squeezed an extra couple of million for him, but then so would a club selling us a replacement squeeze an extra couple of million out of us knowing our desperation. Personally I would rather sell early in order to get in a replacement as early as possible. Let's hope we do so. 

Buendia has been angling for a move for sometime as is evidenced by his not so cryptic comments ever since demotion. That we got another rather splendid season out of him is a credit to him and to  Farke and Webber. Yes it's bloody frustrating that we are not quite big enough to retain a player of his exceptional talents, but since when has it been any different in our history? But before we beat our chests in despair we should perhaps consider the position of clubs like Coventry (imagine how it felt to lose Maddison for the fee we paid for him). Finally, I have to say I don't think any player is "indispensible" to any team, players come and go even at the very best of clubs.

Yes I did notice I had worded it like that. By  ‘first sign of a fee’ I meant first sign of a decent fee, I.e one close to our estimation.

It is a good point that doing it early now means we will be less desperate later in the window so could save some extra £££ back there. I won’t bring up that the early money bagged could also mean clubs demand extra money earlier in the window knowing we’re sitting on a transfer budget which has now been doubled but then I fear this could go on forever... 

And yes I think the line of ‘we were lucky to have him stay the extra 12 months in the first place’ is a good one, it just is hard to see it like that at the present time.

You are right I guess, but I don’t think you can as close to indispensable as Buendia for us. I think it’s a fair assumption to say we almost definitely won’t be replacing the best-ever NCFC player (in my lifetime) with an even better one. Certainly not one who will be able to do Buendia’s job as good as or better for the coming season, though maybe in the long term? But it will be hard for a lot to stomach if that means another cycle of relegation and promotion as part of it.

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1 minute ago, Fen Canary said:

Exactly. I’m sure once Villas offer was accepted any other clubs who had shown an interest would have found out via the back channels what the deal was worth. The fact that none came in with an improved offer implies they thought he wasn’t worth any more, and for a player who’s only had a single half decent season in the top flight you can’t really blame them. Emi is a cracking player, and I believe he’ll end up at a bigger club than Villa, but currently they’re a stepping stone the same as we were, and if they sell him for £50m+ in a year or two then we’ve got over £40m for him in total

Yep! Anyone who doesn't think Webber got on to the phone to Arsenal to let them know what Villa was offering is living in cloud cuckoo land.

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5 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Exactly. I’m sure once Villas offer was accepted any other clubs who had shown an interest would have found out via the back channels what the deal was worth. The fact that none came in with an improved offer implies they thought he wasn’t worth any more, and for a player who’s only had a single half decent season in the top flight you can’t really blame them. Emi is a cracking player, and I believe he’ll end up at a bigger club than Villa, but currently they’re a stepping stone the same as we were, and if they sell him for £50m+ in a year or two then we’ve got over £40m for him in total

If Buendia has a good season or two at Villa he’ll be given a £70-80mil price tag just like Grealish has been. Hell if he was a Villa player right at this second they’d be demanding £50mil

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2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I think it’s a fair assumption to say we almost definitely won’t be replacing the best-ever NCFC player (in my lifetime) with an even better one. Certainly not one who will be able to do Buendia’s job as good as or better for the coming season, though maybe in the long term?

What better way to begin a Sunday than find something we can definitely both agree on. With you all the way on that. I'm just hoping the money is spent in a way that makes the squad "overall" strong enough to prevent relegation. Time will tell (and time for a rousing chorus of OTBC).

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8 hours ago, curious yellow said:

OK, he will probably improve but we took the risk where others wouldn't, took him from a lower division and turned him into a player who is capable playing at the very top, so not so much of a risk for Villa and more to gain. 

I cannot see that we are relying on this sale to fund our purchases, ie selling so we can buy a lesser player. Webber said that we don't need to sell, only if the price is right. We wanted 40M, they offer 30M (plus some more, say if he scores a hat-trick in a world cup final) and we snap their hand off. 

We've accepted more than £30million. And to be fair to Webber, he said it would have to break the club record fee for him to pick up the phone. I believe it has hasn't it? No one ever said £40mil up front. And not only that, there is also a sell on clause.

The most frustrating thing about the fallout from this isn't just that fans are straight out gutted at losing a good player, but it's that they have to create some imaginary additional reasons to find blame with the club.

I'd much rather get £30-35mil up front right at the start of the window than hold off until the start of August to possibly get another £5-10mil when teams get desperate to sign someone. It would leave us with days to find a replacement and to spend that money on reinforcing our current squad with quality.

Make no mistake, we need that money. Rumour has it we have around £15-20mil before his sale. If this is true, and we are at least three players then even with Buendia, just like last time in the premier league, we would be trying to play a very, very fine line of loans and players at £2mil each to try and improve this squad.

Lets remember, that's 2-3 players we need right now. As in to fill holes left by Vrancic, Tettey and Skipp. Klose being on his way out meaning we need at least one other senior CB.

That's before you consider we may also be letting other players go out on loan or go altogether. It has been suggested we would be willing to sell Hugill for example. Some fans have questioned whether the time is right to let Stiepermann go. Some even suggesting Zimmermann and Hernandez.

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9 minutes ago, horsefly said:

What better way to begin a Sunday than find something we can definitely both agree on. With you all the way on that. I'm just hoping the money is spent in a way that makes the squad "overall" strong enough to prevent relegation. Time will tell (and time for a rousing chorus of OTBC).

Yep that’s what we have to hope for! It’s possible and Webber is the best man for the job, so let’s see where we end up 👍

 

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1 minute ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yep that’s what we have to hope for! It’s possible and Webber is the best man for the job, so let’s see where we end up 👍

 

Amen! (It is Sunday after all)

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6 minutes ago, chicken said:

We've accepted more than £30million. And to be fair to Webber, he said it would have to break the club record fee for him to pick up the phone. I believe it has hasn't it? No one ever said £40mil up front. And not only that, there is also a sell on clause.

The most frustrating thing about the fallout from this isn't just that fans are straight out gutted at losing a good player, but it's that they have to create some imaginary additional reasons to find blame with the club.

I'd much rather get £30-35mil up front right at the start of the window than hold off until the start of August to possibly get another £5-10mil when teams get desperate to sign someone. It would leave us with days to find a replacement and to spend that money on reinforcing our current squad with quality.

Make no mistake, we need that money. Rumour has it we have around £15-20mil before his sale. If this is true, and we are at least three players then even with Buendia, just like last time in the premier league, we would be trying to play a very, very fine line of loans and players at £2mil each to try and improve this squad.

Lets remember, that's 2-3 players we need right now. As in to fill holes left by Vrancic, Tettey and Skipp. Klose being on his way out meaning we need at least one other senior CB.

That's before you consider we may also be letting other players go out on loan or go altogether. It has been suggested we would be willing to sell Hugill for example. Some fans have questioned whether the time is right to let Stiepermann go. Some even suggesting Zimmermann and Hernandez.

Spot on Chicken!

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7 hours ago, NeymarSmith said:

... Got me there lol 

Umm he will be 150million

Im just heartbroke dude. 

I don't think there's a single Norwich fan who isn't feeling emotional about it today mate, I am too. I'm just trying to see the bigger picture and remind myself that the pain will pass and new heroes will emerge. OTBC!

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I've slept on it and I'm still disappointed in Emi. Not for leaving, he's earned the right to go, but just the fact it is to Villa. One of the top 4 in any league in Europe, fine not a problem, but Villa?! Still surprised that's his destination of choice

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Not shocked in the slightest. Emi would've left last summer but for a unique and unprecedented circumstance. He stayed and won us promotion. Had he gone last summer, we wouldn't be in the EPL this season. Remember that. We (as Norwich fans) have had the best of both worlds with Emi. We got the transfer fee, and we got the promotion back to the EPL. 

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When we came down last time SW said publicly that he had learned lessons and that DF had gone into battle without a gun.

I would suggest that the lessons he felt he learnt were that we weren’t physically strong enough and that the squad did not have the strength in depth to cope with injuries and loss of form.

This sale hurts big time but it’s clearly a strategic decision to spread the load by using the cash to buy in three or four new players to improve the physicality and squad depth. Ultimately to improve our chances of staying up.

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10 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Jesus wept. 

Good counter argument. As expected!

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2 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Okay maybe a bit of an exaggeration but this thing has been pretty public the whole way. The point I was making is we absolutely could’ve gotten a better fee. I never said the first offer was accepted, but objectively looking at the position in the window for the sides and the timing it’s pretty clear this isn’t the absolute maximum we could get, is it not?

As I said, I could easily accept the quick sale approach for Aarons, or Cantwell. As I see these players a replaceable, and a fee of £30 mil I also could see replacing these. But a similar or slightly better fee under the same approach for the sale of Buendia, who is absolutely indispensable to our style of play, and priceless to the team? I just can’t be happy with, sorry 😔

I suspect we couldn't have got a better offer though. Maybe could have risked waiting to see what other transfers shake out interest from other clubs, but then how much is the extra few mil worth with no time to reinvest?

Plus probably what happened last season is Arsenal tried to turn his head and made a low ball offer to the club.

Webber convinced him to stay to the end of the season which got us a promotion and probably 15m more cash. If that's the case we are in a much better position to reinvest in the squad as we have a bigger kitty and the lure of being in the Premier league.

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1 hour ago, AJ said:

I've slept on it and I'm still disappointed in Emi. Not for leaving, he's earned the right to go, but just the fact it is to Villa. One of the top 4 in any league in Europe, fine not a problem, but Villa?! Still surprised that's his destination of choice

Probably more likely to get into Europe next season with Villa than with Arsenal.

But Arsenal have that magical relationship with the FA Cup even when they are mid-table fodder, and so you'd probably consider it more likely that he'd win a trophy at Arsenal.

I just want to see the bloke win a few things and gain some recognition, and he's only going to do that if Villa is another stepping stone. I suppose Ashley Young and James Milner both went on to better things after Villa and won trophies, and Gareth Barry, so it may not be a terrible choice if that's the logic.

Just really hope we have a cracking sell on clause, e.g. 20% or profit on next move, as it would be grim if Villa end up getting £80m for him in 18 months. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Jezzard said:

When is the deadline date for squad submission then?

All of the evidence I can see so far is a squad of players for the Copa America which does not include Buendia at this time. Eg the following:
https://www.sportsunfold.com/copa-america-squad/

Edit: Just found articles elsewhere that said that submission of squads deadline is 3rd June. So the above is in fact the final squad and Buendia is not in it.

Eg: https://www.nationalworld.com/sport/football/copa-america-2021-fixtures-squads-tv-schedule-and-host-as-south-american-football-tournament-is-confirmed-3258315

Edited by chicken
Updated information

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1 hour ago, Moosebadge said:

Wow

 

One less relegation place to worry about.

 

Crazy

I wouldn’t be so sure about that if I were you. You might not even hold onto Sarr yourselves this window before you start giving it the smug Billy big B0110ck5 👍

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I am not in shock. My Dad was blue lighted into the NNUH on Thursday, totally unexpected, still reeling from it. A football club selling a player who wanted to leave, is neither surprising or of that much concern to me.........

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2 hours ago, chicken said:

We've accepted more than £30million. And to be fair to Webber, he said it would have to break the club record fee for him to pick up the phone. I believe it has hasn't it? No one ever said £40mil up front. And not only that, there is also a sell on clause.

The most frustrating thing about the fallout from this isn't just that fans are straight out gutted at losing a good player, but it's that they have to create some imaginary additional reasons to find blame with the club.


 

All I am saying is that I think we could have waited and got closer to what Emi is worth. If we didn't get any more offers we could keep him, this would be the best alternative. 

The transfer window isn't even open yet, people are on holiday and involved in internationals. Webber said we don't need to sell, you are saying that we are counting on selling one player to finance the whole squad. 

I'm not keen on add-ons, look what happened to Dean Ashton. If we're in the driving seat we should be able to negotiate a good deal. 

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20 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

All I am saying is that I think we could have waited and got closer to what Emi is worth. If we didn't get any more offers we could keep him, this would be the best alternative.

If we didn't get any more offers he'd still have gone to Villa, and we'd have wasted the time we could have had getting new players in.

The only way Emi was staying was if nobody was willing to pay the sort of price we were wanting (but within reason), and quite clearly, Villa really wanted him.

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