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Midlands Yellow

Who’s in shock

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13 minutes ago, Ash.m87 said:

I read they see Emi as a Ross Barkley replacement 

Yeah, I think that's more likely - I see it as a move to keep/placate Grealish, not replace him.

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43 minutes ago, hogesar said:

What's really funny is the OP and others of a similar ilk fail to realise that its the decisions Webber has made and ultimately,  Delia, Michael and the board that meant we signed Emi in the first place.

Jesus wept. 

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34 minutes ago, chicken said:

I don't think he is the finished product and it would appear neither does the Argentina national 

That is only going to improve Buendia's game too. So is he the finished article? No, not at 24 he isn't no. There is still time for him to improve. A footballers peak is considered to be around 26-30. Plus he has never delivered consistently in the premier league, that in itself would be progression for him.

OK, he will probably improve but we took the risk where others wouldn't, took him from a lower division and turned him into a player who is capable playing at the very top, so not so much of a risk for Villa and more to gain. 

I cannot see that we are relying on this sale to fund our purchases, ie selling so we can buy a lesser player. Webber said that we don't need to sell, only if the price is right. We wanted 40M, they offer 30M (plus some more, say if he scores a hat-trick in a world cup final) and we snap their hand off. 

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3 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

They can't both be facts. What will he definitely, factually be worth? £60m, or £90m?

... Got me there lol 

Umm he will be 150million

Im just heartbroke dude. 

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Posted (edited)

Nice one Webber....couldn’t wait a couple of weeks for him to be an international and increase his value by at least 10%....25% if he stars in Copa America 

Edited by Jezzard

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Looking forward to the bit when we get told that we don’t receive the full amount in one instalment, although this doesn’t seem to apply to any potential purchases 

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He will move on for double that when they are relegated 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Jezzard said:

Looking forward to the bit when we get told that we don’t receive the full amount in one instalment, although this doesn’t seem to apply to any potential purchases 

I think you will struggle to find any transfer that isn't paid in instalments unless it is very small. Likewise I think you'll find we pay our transfer fees in instalments too.

Edited by horsefly

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56 minutes ago, Haus said:

He will move on for double that when they are relegated 

At which point, hello 10% sell-on clause, hello seven million quid.

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4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

At which point, hello 10% sell-on clause, hello seven million quid.

Or 3.5m based on profit. 

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Just now, Midlands Yellow said:

Or 3.5m based on profit. 

In other words, extra dosh. Also, don't forget, we paid off Getafe from theirs two years ago. It's also more than feasible, if we're probably looking for a couple of quick million for whatever reason, that we can say to Villa "if you want all the proceeds from a future Buendia sale, we will sell the clause for.... ".

We'll only get nothing more if Buendia doesn't improve (if it's an "of-profit" clause instead of just a sales clause) or is released on a free.

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8 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

We couldn’t say yes quick enough to a derisory offer. Villa have a bargain, simples. 

 

8 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

It's not a silly price it's absolute steal.

 

8 hours ago, curious yellow said:

f he'd played well for Argentina, his price would have risen and other clubs might be interested.

Are you guys seriously suggesting that other clubs out there think Buendia is worth far more than Villa have paid for him, but simply decided to let them bag a ridiculous bargain before their very eyes? You need to accept that other "top" teams don't value Buendia as much as you believe they ought to. Buendia will have been scouted by every top club in football and they have clearly come to the judgement that they do not think he is worth more than the fee Villa are willing to pay. That's how transfers work. Webber is not an idiot, if he could have got a better deal for Buendia do you not think he would have? 

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4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

At which point, hello 10% sell-on clause, hello seven million quid.

Still peanuts. Fact is he’s automatically a £50-60mil player just by putting on a Villa shirt at the start of the season. Sadly that’s easily how much he was worth to this Norwich side too. Would anyone pay that at this stage? Probably not yet but Villa can set the price knowing they can dig their heels in like their have with Grealish. Seems Buendia doesn’t know this is his future though?

So when would we even get a sell on clause through either? Villa have no intentions of selling Grealish after how many years now, like 3 seasons of interest from top top clubs? A sell on clause for a player whose club have bollucks isn’t going to be much use.

And there was me hoping I’d wake up feeling a bit more positive at the whole thing...

Genuinely think I’d have rather sold him to Arsenal for a few million less, the sale to Villa has sent such a bad message out to our players and any potential players looking to join. Not to mention to the fans too after promising we’d shift him to the ‘right club’. Yes we’ve gotten the better deal on paper, but what’s the knock effect to everyone’s mood for the coming season?

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Are you guys seriously suggesting that other clubs out there think Buendia is worth far more than Villa have paid for him, but simply decided to let them bag a ridiculous bargain before their very eyes? 

Do you actually think £30-38 million is good money for Buendia? Just because it’s what clubs are willing to pay doesn’t mean it’s a good fee. He’s undoubtedly worth far more to this Norwich team than even the maximum fees which I’ve seen quoted.

And to answer your question, yes I absolutely think we could’ve gotten a better fee by waiting a little while longer, clubs get more and more desperate as the window goes on as they miss out on other targets and the start of the season gets closer. First word of any bid came out like 2 days ago, and it’s all done and dusted in about 24 hours? Hard to imagine we squeezed the absolute maximum amount out of any club in that time.

However I do totally respect that Webber wanted to get the deal done so we can get ready for post Buendia life. I can see the argument for it as we now have more time to build a stronger side. It’s just saddening that we have keeled over at the first sign of interest instead of trying to keep him and building a side round him, or at least holding out for the maximum fee.

This is our out-and-out star player we are talking about. The sale of Aarons, who I would describe as important but dispensable to the team in this way to raise good funds at the start of the window would make sense. But selling up for the absolute heart and soul of our attacking play from the last 3 seasons just because we want a quick sale? Come on that totally sucks...

I suppose we made whatever promises we made to him last season and it was a blessing he stayed that extra 12 months, but holy ****, don’t just sell him to Villa at the first sign of a fee.

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler

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9 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Still peanuts. Fact is he’s automatically a £50-60mil player just by putting on a Villa shirt at the start of the season. Sadly that’s easily how much he was worth to this Norwich side too. Would anyone pay that at this stage? Probably not yet but Villa can set the price knowing they can dig their heels in like their have with Grealish. Seems Buendia doesn’t know this is his future though?

So when would we even get a sell on clause through either? Villa have no intentions of selling Grealish after how many years now, like 3 seasons of interest from top top clubs? A sell on clause for a player whose club have bollucks isn’t going to be much use.

And there was me hoping I’d wake up feeling a bit more positive at the whole thing...

Genuinely think I’d have rather sold him to Arsenal for a few million less, the sale to Villa has sent such a bad message out to our players and any potential players looking to join. Not to mention to the fans too after promising we’d shift him to the ‘right club’. Yes we’ve gotten the better deal on paper, but what’s the knock effect to everyone’s mood for the coming season?

The deal was apparently £33 million plus £5 million in add-ons (we don't know what those are), plus a 10% sell-on clause. It goes without saying we don't have a bloody clue what Buendia would be sold for in the future. However, if he develops like we think he will we'll basically open up another income stream in one shot when that sale comes in. Also, I don't believe it does send such a bad message - the message I get is "if you are a promising youngster, and you are willing to commit to everything we ask of you and show promise, we will play you, we will show faith in you in the first team, and we will help you on your way whilst also benefiting from profit". This time around, we've done it in the South American market, which will probably be very important for us post-Brexit.

Look at sell-on clauses as potential, extra bonus income streams.

As for selling for less to Arsenal, I think that's cutting noses to spite faces especially as Webber has often reiterated the fact that he likes his business done promptly and this gives us more time to look for reinforcements - pretty much as the window starts. I do accept the notion that this puts far greater pressure on Webber to have an excellent window this time around, but I also say with the cash gained that we have an improved margin for error this time as we can theoretically spend a bit more on players that may be more proven.

We'll see. I'm very intrigued at who we will bring in here.

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7 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

And there was me hoping I’d wake up feeling a bit more positive at the whole thing...

Genuinely think I’d have rather sold him to Arsenal for a few million less, the sale to Villa has sent such a bad message out to our players and any potential players looking to join. Not to mention to the fans too after promising we’d shift him to the ‘right club’. Yes we’ve gotten the better deal on paper, but what’s the knock effect to everyone’s mood for the coming season?

Perhaps we need to spend some of that transfer fee to pay for a couple of grief counsellors to man a City hotline. I'm disappointed too, but ultimately this is "only" football, and it's "only" what happens every season. Even the fans of the richest club in the world had to get over the sale of Ronaldo. Remember how you felt when Maddison left? Did you ever believe he would be replaced by someone who turned out to be as good as Buendia proved? Don't let it ruin your Sunday. Personally,  since I can do nothing to change the truth of Buendia's departure I'm going to start getting excited about the prospect of new signings arriving soon.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Do you actually think £30-38 million is good money for Buendia? Just because it’s what clubs are willing to pay doesn’t mean it’s a good fee. He’s undoubtedly worth far more to this Norwich team than even the maximum fees which I’ve seen quoted.

And to answer your question, yes I absolutely think we could’ve gotten a better fee by waiting a little while longer, clubs get more and more desperate as the window goes on as they miss out on other targets and the start of the season gets closer. First word of any bid came out like 2 days ago, and it’s all done and dusted in about 24 hours? Hard to imagine we squeezed the absolute maximum amount out of any club in that time.

However I do totally respect that Webber wanted to get the deal done so we can get ready for post Buendia life. I can see the argument for it as we now have more time to build a stronger side. It’s just saddening that we have keeled over at the first sign of interest instead of trying to keep him and building a side round him, or at least holding out for the maximum fee.

This is our out-and-out star player we are talking about. The sale of Aarons, who I would describe as important but dispensable to the team in this way to raise good funds at the start of the window would make sense. But selling up for the absolute heart and soul of our attacking play from the last 3 seasons just because we want a quick sale? Come on that totally sucks...

I suppose we made whatever promises we made to him last season and it was a blessing he stayed that extra 12 months, but holy ****, don’t just sell him to Villa at the first sign of a fee.

Really? You honestly believe that these negotiations have only been on-going for a couple of days rather than several months? And do you honestly think it would have been wise for us to delay selling until the last moment, forcing us to spend massively extra on a last minute replacement in desperation? I understand your frustration but it really is nonsense to claim Webber snapped the hand off the DOF to make the first offer to come along.

Edited by horsefly
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9 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

It's not a silly price it's absolute steal...it feel like the time we sold Sutton for ridiculously low. It's not a good deal. It's pretty obvious that we are desperate for cash ..remember we don't have to sell rubbish?

 

Sutton was sold for a then British record. £5m is nothing now but then it was huge.

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Posted (edited)

He was always going, so just glad it’s getting sorted early on so it doesn’t drag right through the window and gives us time to recruit. Surprised it’s Villa but if he wants to go there and they are stumping up the wages and the transfer fee then that’s just how it is. I think they are a bigger club than many are giving them credit for anyway tbh.

Edited by Gordon Bennett
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2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Also, I don't believe it does send such a bad message - the message I get is "if you are a promising youngster, and you are willing to commit to everything we ask of you and show promise, we will play you, we will show faith in you in the first team, and we will help you on your way whilst also benefiting from profit".

This is a point that often gets made, and one I was on board with up to yesterday. However Villa are a club who have been unwilling to sell Grealish on, yet that doesn’t appear to have sent any kind of bad message to Buendia who undoubtedly wants to play in Europe someday soon via an even better club. Real tough one to take.

And yes rejecting a better bid from Villa and selling to Arsenal might be ‘cutting our nose to spite our face’ from a facts and figures point of view. But who can say of the intangible damage this has done behind the scenes, there has certainly been a loss of goodwill from me and I will be holding our performance this season to a higher account.

I just can’t see how this helps the prospect for any of our players wanting to stay and build with NCFC though, if we can’t feign off interest of a Villa then maybe they’ll all want to jump ship to a mid/lower level prem side. Holding out for only the top sides at least sends the message that we see ourselves on the same playing field as everyone else. We all agree the prem is split into two but this transfer makes it seem split into 3, with us in a mini league comprised of probably only ourselves at the bottom.... I mean no one else would’ve sold their star player like this, to Villa, on promotion, would they? But that’s okay because we got an extra couple of mil? Not for me, sorry.

Let’s just hope the players see it as you do and not as I do otherwise we could have a pretty unhappy team right now.

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Just now, Hank shoots Skyler said:

This is a point that often gets made, and one I was on board with up to yesterday. However Villa are a club who have been unwilling to sell Grealish on, yet that doesn’t appear to have sent any kind of bad message to Buendia who undoubtedly wants to play in Europe someday soon via an even better club. Real tough one to take.

And yes rejecting a better bid from Villa and selling to Arsenal might be ‘cutting our nose to spite our face’ from a facts and figures point of view. But who can say of the intangible damage this has done behind the scenes, there has certainly been a loss of goodwill from me and I will be holding our performance this season to a higher account.

I just can’t see how this helps the prospect for any of our players wanting to stay and build with NCFC though, if we can’t feign off interest of a Villa then maybe they’ll all want to jump ship to a mid/lower level prem side. Holding out for only the top sides at least sends the message that we see ourselves on the same playing field as everyone else. We all agree the prem is split into two but this transfer makes it seem split into 3, with us in a mini league comprised of probably only ourselves at the bottom.... I mean no one else would’ve sold their star player like this, to Villa, on promotion, would they? But that’s okay because we got an extra couple of mil? Not for me, sorry.

Let’s just hope the players see it as you do and not as I do otherwise we could have a pretty unhappy team right now.

Except Grealish is a born Brummie, a boyhood Villa fan, and playing at his home club. That rather changes the dynamic as under such circumstances a greater degree of loyalty would be expected then. For us, the model depends on regular sales of top players and, just as importantly, a steady stream of promising youngsters willing to fight and play their way in, scrambling for their big break and move. In the meantime, we use profits to improve facilities and the core squad in the hope that we can actually reach that status ourselves.

I am confident the players will have known this is part of the culture for years in a similar manner to Farke. After all, they got around the departures of Maddison, Murphy, Godfrey, Lewis et al without skipping ('arf) a beat.

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9 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Really? You honestly believe that these negotiations have only been on-going for a couple of days rather than several months? And do you honestly think it would have been wise for us to delay selling until the last moment, forcing us to spend massively extra on a last minute replacement in desperation? I understand your frustration but it really is nonsense to claim Webber snapped the hand off the DOF to make the first offer to come along.

Okay maybe a bit of an exaggeration but this thing has been pretty public the whole way. The point I was making is we absolutely could’ve gotten a better fee. I never said the first offer was accepted, but objectively looking at the position in the window for the sides and the timing it’s pretty clear this isn’t the absolute maximum we could get, is it not?

As I said, I could easily accept the quick sale approach for Aarons, or Cantwell. As I see these players a replaceable, and a fee of £30 mil I also could see replacing these. But a similar or slightly better fee under the same approach for the sale of Buendia, who is absolutely indispensable to our style of play, and priceless to the team? I just can’t be happy with, sorry 😔

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6 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Okay maybe a bit of an exaggeration but this thing has been pretty public the whole way. The point I was making is we absolutely could’ve gotten a better fee. I never said the first offer was accepted, but objectively looking at the position in the window for the sides and the timing it’s pretty clear this isn’t the absolute maximum we could get, is it not?

As I said, I could easily accept the quick sale approach for Aarons, or Cantwell. As I see these players a replaceable, and a fee of £30 mil I also could see replacing these. But a similar or slightly better fee under the same approach for the sale of Buendia, who is absolutely indispensable to our style of play, and priceless to the team? I just can’t be happy with, sorry 😔

I agree that we could have got even more cash, but we might have had to spend far more of it, and also on players who would not be our first choice but are more in the last-chance saloon.

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2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Except Grealish is a born Brummie, a boyhood Villa fan, and playing at his home club. That rather changes the dynamic as under such circumstances a greater degree of loyalty would be expected then. For us, the model depends on regular sales of top players and, just as importantly, a steady stream of promising youngsters willing to fight and play their way in, scrambling for their big break and move. In the meantime, we use profits to improve facilities and the core squad in the hope that we can actually reach that status ourselves.

I am confident the players will have known this is part of the culture for years in a similar manner to Farke. After all, they got around the departures of Maddison, Murphy, Godfrey, Lewis et al without skipping ('arf) a beat.

Does that mean we’ll never sell Cantwell then unless it’s for silly money? Somehow I don’t think so.

I’d also still fancy Grealish to jump at the first chance of a better club, so I don’t think it is a question of loyalty. If it was then he’d have turned away clubs that have had bids accepted, so this is all coming from Villa not the player. 

 

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1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

I agree that we could have got even more cash, but we might have had to spend far more of it, and also on players who would not be our first choice but are more in the last-chance saloon.

That is a good point to be fair. We’ve still sold our soul to the devil though for a quick buck. 

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35 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Perhaps we need to spend some of that transfer fee to pay for a couple of grief counsellors to man a City hotline. I'm disappointed too, but ultimately this is "only" football, and it's "only" what happens every season. Even the fans of the richest club in the world had to get over the sale of Ronaldo. Remember how you felt when Maddison left? Did you ever believe he would be replaced by someone who turned out to be as good as Buendia proved? Don't let it ruin your Sunday. Personally,  since I can do nothing to change the truth of Buendia's departure I'm going to start getting excited about the prospect of new signings arriving soon.

What is the number for the hotline please?

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7 hours ago, Jezzard said:

Nice one Webber....couldn’t wait a couple of weeks for him to be an international and increase his value by at least 10%....25% if he stars in Copa America 

He didn't make the Copa America squad. A friendly isn't going to increase his value.

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Suspect Villa will look to buy us out of the sell on clause a couple of years down the line. Like we did with Getafe.

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4 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

That is a good point to be fair. We’ve still sold our soul to the devil though for a quick buck. 

This is completely hypothetical, but let's just try it on for size. And let's assume that Pereira is available for £15m and Olise has an £8m release clause.

If we got both for those prices and Skipp on loan, would you see that as a potential success?

I'll understand any answer that says their performance will be the ultimate determinant of success, but we're talking about the potential of it working out and our potentially coming out in a stronger position than if we'd kept Buendia.

 

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