Is Max the best RB we've ever had?

[shefcanary 2,385]

I'd say Max has yet to prove defensively he can cut the mustard with Culverhouse, Ryan, Elworthy, Needegard et al.  In the EPL last time, all the opposition had to do was fire a crossfield ball across to Aaron's area of the pitch, he would invariably be outmuscled and goals inevitably were scored.  On that basis, it's a big fat no, because a full back's first responsibility surely is to defend! 

Maybe if he stays and proves he has learnt from that previous EPL season, I might change my mind.  But will we get that chance ....

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

2 hours ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

Unless my mind is playing tricks on me.  I seem to remember our fullbacks getting forward a fair bit in the era of Bowen and Culverhouse.  Bowen especially liked to get forward and was really effective at it too.

No that can’t possibly be right . In those days the players wore a top hat and frock coat , and barely broke into a sweat. That goal Bowen scored in Munich was a figment of old fans’ imagination. 

Ive blocked a few bell ends in the last few days .

It’s easier to ignore the ones that don’t think footballers were any good before last Friday . 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

12 hours ago, king canary said:

Indeed it is!

Are YOU Keith Briggs?

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

10 hours ago, chicken said:

Not really. At the time Jamie Carragher was injured and was the 2nd choice England right back. Mills wouldn't have made the plane if our first and 2nd choice were available. Also, Brown often deputised there if needed and Hargreaves could cover too. Also Phil Neville wasn't in that squad either, and he can also play right back and was picked head of Mills after 2002.

It's also worth considering that Mills was 25 at the time. He wasn't selected for Euro 2004 or the 2006 world cup. This old Guardian article sums it up rather nicely if you ask me:


https://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/may/26/worldcupfootball2002.sport1

So yup, process of illumination he really wasn't picked over anyone to be in the world cup squad, at least, not top level full backs. He was 3rd or 4th choice at best. Not to mention, in 2004 they took Gary Neville, Phil Neville, Carragher and didn't take Brown. So by less than two years later, he was 5th choice at best.

Sometimes you just have to accept that you get picked not because you are a great player, but because of the lack of other options. And that is exactly what everyone knew back in 2002. 

 

Jamie Carragher at RB. Now that would have been a horror show. I have in my head that Trevor Sinclair (or perhaps some other winger) was tried at right-back in this era - or am I just making that up?

[crispeduk 282]

Time and affection for players we watched in our youth distort judgement, but recall Dave Stringer as a pretty decent full back before being switched to centre back and then catching ruthless off Duncan 😁. Reckon he was as good as a lot of the candidates mentioned here but while the way the full back job has evolved makes direct comparison tough, Max for me edges it as the best of my time looking on though agree with Sheff there are times when he's outmuscled at the top table (but maybes not as often as suggested).  But he's still developing and I think his departure might be more disruptive than any among the current or recent crops of defenders. If he's outgrown our club I'd wish him well in moving on. A model professional, mature beyond his years.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Max is perhaps better in a team that is predominantly on the forefront and he spends most of his time attacking. This is probably why Barcelona were looking at him. La Liga is not as physical as the Premier League and Barcelona would in the large part be dominating games and needing the additional numbers in attack but requiring someone with the pace and stamina to also get back when possession is lost. Max isnt a snarling bull-dog of a defender, but most of the time thats not what Barca need. For games where teams would be matching them they could play someone stronger and more defensively minded.

Edited May 31, 2021 by The Great Mass Debater

[king canary 7,578]

11 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Are YOU Keith Briggs?

I wish.

#justiceforbriggsy

[Newtopia 517]

Best, is subjective, ‘ever had’ could mean played for or developed here, and best means different things to different people.  
Culverhouse he played in the highest achieving Norwich side I saw play, and was one of our best players at the time (MOTD) did pieces on him etc.  He also played the best football of his career at Carrow road.  

Danny Mills had a great career, but not at Norwich, the coaches and managers here did not fancy him.  

Max is so focused he has the potential for an amazing career, and he has developed hugely whilst here. 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

Supported since the 70s and in my time, Culverhouse stands out a distance above Max who stands out a distance above the rest.  Culverhouse really deserved to play for England at the time and would have had he been at Man Utd or Arsenal.    Culverhouse's understanding of the game was exceptional and he also played as a sweeper very successfully.  

[sgncfc 1,221]

It is true that football players at the professional level are generally faster, stronger and more "athletic" than they have ever been. That improvement has been ongoing over many years and is reasonably consistent.

I would be pretty confident that Aarons would destroy Culverhouse's stats in terms of sprinting speed, recovery time, strength etc. I would be equally confident that Culverhouse would win handsomely on crosses blocked, tackles made and headers won; maybe even on chances created.

If you put the 1994 Culverhouse in the 2021 team he would probably struggle a bit physically, as would any player from that era, but in terms of the players he was up against at the time (the best in the Premier League and in Europe) he performed for us better than Aarons has so far. 

To date, Aarons has stood out in two Championship seasons and been average in his one PL season. Culverhouse excelled over several years whilst Norwich were reasonably regular top 6 PL finishers, so he is still comfortably the best RB we have ever had. 

[Cornwall Canaryfan 16]

21 hours ago, shefcanary said:

I'd say Max has yet to prove defensively he can cut the mustard with Culverhouse, Ryan, Elworthy, Needegard et al.  In the EPL last time, all the opposition had to do was fire a crossfield ball across to Aaron's area of the pitch, he would invariably be outmuscled and goals inevitably were scored.  On that basis, it's a big fat no, because a full back's first responsibility surely is to defend! 

Maybe if he stays and proves he has learnt from that previous EPL season, I might change my mind.  But will we get that chance ....

Pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

Along with Lewis, was the most photographed player in the EPL season before last. Unfortunately usually a yard or so behind the player snapped scoring against us.

Did Barcelona show an interest in him on the basis 'Norwich conceded more goals than almost anyone else in the English leagues. That's the full back for us then'.

As with most of the team, Max did not cover himself with glory last time out in the EPL. Along with Cantwell & Buendia, he has a lot to prove this coming season. All three really started to get their acts together last season, perhaps after Farke/Webber whispered a few home truths to them, & I really hope they are determined to make their marks this time around.

Hopefully, with us!

PS - Supporter since 1979 & Culverhouse is the best I have seen. If Max stays it would be great to see him better Ian. I really feel he has the potential.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Cornwall Canaryfan

[Six Pack 91]

On 01/06/2021 at 00:54, FatCanary said:

Thats just revisionism of a poorer standard of football based on nostalgia though. Our current team would be fitter, faster, more intelligent tactically across the board and would murder the team Culverhouse was in.

To disagree is to ignore progress and evolution in football and essentially be a Philistine in my view.

Just had image flashes of Sutton, Ekoku and Ruel Fox running at Hanley and Ben Gibson ! Not sure who is going to get murdered ?

[chicken 2,604]

22 hours ago, Newtopia said:

Danny Mills had a great career, but not at Norwich, the coaches and managers here did not fancy him.  

I believe there was more to it than that. Threw his toys out of the pram a lot that he wasn't getting picked regularly enough. 

[chicken 2,604]

On 31/05/2021 at 22:36, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Jamie Carragher at RB. Now that would have been a horror show. I have in my head that Trevor Sinclair (or perhaps some other winger) was tried at right-back in this era - or am I just making that up?

Carragher was a RB that switched to CB. In fact it was in 2004 that he was moved to CB. So it really wasn't a "horror show".

[FatCanary 249]

2 hours ago, Six Pack said:

Just had image flashes of Sutton, Ekoku and Ruel Fox running at Hanley and Ben Gibson ! Not sure who is going to get murdered ?

Sutton, Ekoku and Ruel Fox.

I can produce some articles indicating just how much fitness and athleticism have moved on in the game if you'd like, but from your dismissive and nostalgic angle I assume it is a waste of my time 

[FatCanary 249]

Also you can't create a hypothetical 3 v 2 to prove your point, that's just weird 

[FatCanary 249]

I'm glad that someone with no counter argument liked your response though 

[FatCanary 249]

Its also very disrespectful to all of the fitness work modern players like Grant and Ben put in compared to their revered 90s counterparts. You think Hanley and Gibson couldn't handle Ekoku and Fox? They weren't even quick by modern standards.

[king canary 7,578]

28 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

Its also very disrespectful to all of the fitness work modern players like Grant and Ben put in compared to their revered 90s counterparts. You think Hanley and Gibson couldn't handle Ekoku and Fox? They weren't even quick by modern standards.

This is why its pointless trying to compare players from different era's based on what they'd do today.

Sure if you dropped Ekoku and Fox straight from 1994 into 2021 they'd struggle. But if they were playing in 2021 they'd likely be entirely different players with all the fitness and work they'd be putting in. I'd wager if Aarons and Culverhouse swapped eras, not only would they be different players, they'd quite likely be playing different positions. 

[FatCanary 249]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

This is why its pointless trying to compare players from different era's based on what they'd do today.

Sure if you dropped Ekoku and Fox straight from 1994 into 2021 they'd struggle. But if they were playing in 2021 they'd likely be entirely different players with all the fitness and work they'd be putting in. I'd wager if Aarons and Culverhouse swapped eras, not only would they be different players, they'd quite likely be playing different positions. 

Yeah that's a fair point, but the question was Is Max the Best RB We Have Ever Had? 

There were no disclaimers on If Ian Culverhouse Received Modern Coaching And Was Born Later, more a genuine school of thought that the Culverhouse of then is better than the Max of now, which I must strongly disagree with as nostalgia, while lovely, is the enemy of progress.

[Andy G 10]

Is everyone forgetting that we had Kyle Naughton @ RB for a while...........

Seriously though, tI think Culverhouse but Max is up there somewhere.

[Badger 2,405]

On 30/05/2021 at 20:58, FenwayFrank said:

Clive Payne ? 

Not bad for £10 quid.

(You will have to have a long memory and in the River End) c1970 to understand this!)

[Six Pack 91]

3 hours ago, FatCanary said:

I'm glad that someone with no counter argument liked your response though 

Be patient - I have more to my  life than just sitting on this forum waiting for responses.  I agree that through natural evolution along with superior training techniques, healthier awareness & advance medical techniques produces a more physically faster & stronger athlete. Clubs have a more coaches & personal trainers now than the playing staff ! I think the current squad have some better players than that of the 1992-93 squad but you are underestimating the attack force of Sutton, Ekoku & Ruel Fox  - they can run rings around some of the current defenders.  Of course Buendia, Cantwell & Pukki can do the same to the 90s defenders as well. 

Sutton, Ekoku & Ruel Fox - they just have natural skill that can be applied in any era - all three in the same team - it's not nostalgia - our current defenders will find those 3 too hot to handle !

[FatCanary 249]

1 minute ago, Six Pack said:

Be patient - I have more to my  life than just sitting on this forum waiting for responses.  I agree that through natural evolution along with superior training techniques, healthier awareness & advance medical techniques produces a more physically faster & stronger athlete. Clubs have a more coaches & personal trainers now than the playing staff ! I think the current squad have some better players than that of the 1992-93 squad but you are underestimating the attack force of Sutton, Ekoku & Ruel Fox  - they can run rings around some of the current defenders.  Of course Buendia, Cantwell & Pukki can do the same to the 90s defenders as well. 

Sutton, Ekoku & Ruel Fox - they just have natural skill that can be applied in any era - all three in the same team - it's not nostalgia - our current defenders will find those 3 too hot to handle !

I'm sorry I don't agree that natural skill can just be applied in any era, because the time to execute the skill requires the players' ability to operate at the speed of the modern game. None of those players are running rings round solid modern defenders. They'd be run ragged and run out of the game. The only time they'd 'run rings' round Hanley and Gibson (one of which isn't slow) would be in the first 30 minutes at a push.

[FatCanary 249]

Also why does it matter how much of a life you have outside this forum, I don't understand how that relates to this conversation...?

[Six Pack 91]

3 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

I'm sorry I don't agree that natural skill can just be applied in any era, because the time to execute the skill requires the players' ability to operate at the speed of the modern game. None of those players are running rings round solid modern defenders. They'd be run ragged and run out of the game. The only time they'd 'run rings' round Hanley and Gibson (one of which isn't slow) would be in the first 30 minutes at a push.

Oh you're talking about stamina ?  OK so if Sutton, Ekoku & Ruel Fox had the benefits of todays training regime  and DF coaching them - along with their natural skill - they would just smash Gibson & Co wouldn't they ?

I think we need to put everyone on equal footing and into todays era or else it would be pointless.

 

[Six Pack 91]

27 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

Also why does it matter how much of a life you have outside this forum, I don't understand how that relates to this conversation...?

Oh that - it seems you don't do anything but camp on here !

[FatCanary 249]

28 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

Oh you're talking about stamina ?  OK so if Sutton, Ekoku & Ruel Fox had the benefits of todays training regime  and DF coaching them - along with their natural skill - they would just smash Gibson & Co wouldn't they ?

I think we need to put everyone on equal footing and into todays era or else it would be pointless.

 

I disagree, what you now have is your subjective perception of the ability of those players married to a low-definition concept of 'stamina' which is merely part of the evolution of football and also not mentioned by anybody I was talking to on this thread before.

I don't have to agree that those players were better than our current ones just because they looked good in a bygone era.

[FatCanary 249]

29 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

Oh that - it seems you don't do anything but camp on here !

Oh right, thanks, so what if I do?

[FatCanary 249]

Point is Culverhouse didn't have the benefits of today's training regime and working with DF, so we can conclude that he wasn't as good as Max Aarons is.