We could lose all three

[corbs 147]

Just reading about Declan Rice, estimate 100m to buy!

[Jim Smith 2,314]

10 hours ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

If they all go then they all go.

We take the money and invest and we all trust in Webber and Scott to pick up some gems that move us forward.

To be honest, that's all we can do as fans 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

If they all go then it’s utterly pathetic and we may as well give up. I for one wish the club would stop telling everyone we will sell our best players if decent offers come in. Webber’s track record of signings at premier league level is ropey at best. It’s a big ask for him to replace our three best players plus Skipp and make us stronger in one summer. 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Norwich have a clear progression model for young, ambitious players they attract. 

They therefore have to be seen to be positive and open - welcoming even - of big money offers from top level clubs.

They have to promise this pathway to attract the Maddisons, Godfreys and Aarons’

They must also - reasonably regularly - deliver on it to show that it is more than rainbows and unicorns. 

However...

We are in the Premier League and Webber is no fool. 

At this moment in time the ‘open door’ strategy may be somewhat disingenuous. There is an element of ‘methinks he doth protest too much’ about the way we are so up front about it ...the way we are somewhat over-sharing the  ‘beauty parade’.

I suspect that this strategy is cuter than it first appears. It is really designed to appease players and their agents, to be whiter-than-white (vid the promise made to Max that ‘stay for a year, get us up and you can go’).

Maddison, Godfrey and Lewis - all replaceable - have already proved the integrity of the strategy, I suspect that Webber feels no need to labour the point at this Norwich City moment in time. Nor does he need to. 

Whilst These promises need to be seen to be upheld (in principle, as already shown) , Webber will all the while know that our Premier League Status, momentum and - hopefully - small influx of surprising-quality signings, can render the whole theatre moot. 

As @Bethnal Yellow and Green has pointed out the beauty-parade criteria: big step-up club + record transfer + tripling wages + player wants to go is actually pretty restrictive and even more so in current market context.

The ‘come-and-get-them’ strategy is thus conversely anything but. 

All 3 staying is far more likely than all 3 going in that context.

Parma

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Jim Smith 2,314]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

Except it really isn't. The two don't really go together at all as this is largely outside the clubs control. Should we get offers for all three that meet the clubs estimation of the players then they will go. The key is the club stands it ground and make sure the fees are appropriate (and yes that does include raising the prices of those left if and when one or more of the three leave). The club will never "bump the wages" up enough for the players to stay and if the majority of Webber's budget goes into the pockets of Buendia, Aarons & Cantwell that is not necessarily the difference that keeps us up. Afterall, the three all played when we were relegated last time. What will make the difference is who is incoming. As it happens any approaches appear to be in the realm of rumour, rather than fact, and I wouldn't be surprised if all three are here when the season starts. That would please me, but I suepect derail Webber's plans.

It absolutely is not outside the clubs control is it. It’s within the clubs control to simply not accept any bids at all and say they are staying. We won’t do that though because our model to allow our owners to keep hold of their train set dictates that when we get big enough offers we sell and all buying clubs know that.

Perhaps when tiny Brentford go up, keep Toney and probably outspend us people will see how much we are at a disadvantaging ourselves when it comes to trying to make a go of it in the premier league. We haven’t even really managed to expand the ground or anything either.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

That said, keep at least two of them and get it right with the transfers this summer and I do think we could have enough about us to stay up this time. 

[nutty nigel 7,506]

Misery loves company and the same people wallow together in bootsie's threads. Here's one he made earlier...

 

[birchfest 397]

47 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

It absolutely is not outside the clubs control is it. It’s within the clubs control to simply not accept any bids at all and say they are staying. We won’t do that though because our model to allow our owners to keep hold of their train set dictates that when we get big enough offers we sell and all buying clubs know that.

Perhaps when tiny Brentford go up, keep Toney and probably outspend us people will see how much we are at a disadvantaging ourselves when it comes to trying to make a go of it in the premier league. We haven’t even really managed to expand the ground or anything either.

Brentford is a bit of a curious example you've given, considering in the last 3 seasons they've sold their standout players. Same with talking about ground expansion when we've literally just had a season and a 1/4 with it being empty, whilst you've also not brought up the recent and on going upgrades at Colney. 

 

Im not really having a dig Jim, Id rather the player than the cash too. But I think that those just don't really float as criticisms. 

[hogesar 9,611]

15 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Misery loves company and the same people wallow together in bootsie's threads. Here's one he made earlier...

 

Its tragic. But they all get to wallow in self pity in these threads and it probably does them good in their private lives. Let them crack on!

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,776]

Back to the subject at hand, the only one that I really worry about losing is Buendia.

I don't worry about losing Aarons because as fantastic as he is, if we get £30m for him, we can hopefully find a Premier League right back for half that and use the other half on other areas.

I don't worry about losing Cantwell because I can't see him going. I don't think he'd quite attract interest from a genuine big club, not at £20m plus anyway, and I'd like to think that he wouldn't leave us for a mid-table one. 

Buendia however will attract interest and he is quite simply irreplaceable. I just can't see how we could find and attract a player of his quality, but unfortunately, if Arsenal or Atletico offer £40m it would be nearly impossible to stand in his way.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Its tragic. But they all get to wallow in self pity in these threads and it probably does them good in their private lives. Let them crack on!

Oh I agree Hoggy. It's like when things are bad, probably the last time was 2009, I used love to find a happy thread to make me feel more at home🙃

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,421]

.

.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Graham Paddons Beard

[Jim Smith 2,314]

1 hour ago, birchfest said:

Brentford is a bit of a curious example you've given, considering in the last 3 seasons they've sold their standout players. Same with talking about ground expansion when we've literally just had a season and a 1/4 with it being empty, whilst you've also not brought up the recent and on going upgrades at Colney. 

 

Im not really having a dig Jim, Id rather the player than the cash too. But I think that those just don't really float as criticisms. 

Improving Colney is a start although originally paid for by the fans.

i take the point re Brentford but my point is more that I would be amazed if they sell players IF they are promoted. They have sold in the past when they have missed out on promotion which given their lack of any parachute payments is perhaps understandable. 
 

if we stay up this time we simply have to expand the ground. We are well capable of filling a larger ground and we need that legacy to show from our periods in the top flight. 

[birchfest 397]

31 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Improving Colney is a start although originally paid for by the fans.

i take the point re Brentford but my point is more that I would be amazed if they sell players IF they are promoted. They have sold in the past when they have missed out on promotion which given their lack of any parachute payments is perhaps understandable. 
 

if we stay up this time we simply have to expand the ground. We are well capable of filling a larger ground and we need that legacy to show from our periods in the top flight. 

Thats fair enough, and Im actually a very pro-ground expansion fan, its long over due and as one of the clubs with the best match day revenue streams, we are missing out on a lot of potential income whilst also having the space to bring in the next generation of fans. 

 

Brentford will be a funny one, you could argue they sold Watkins to pre-empt promotion this season and not having to sell again. I wonder if it had been the case that he has stayed another year and they were going up, they might have found themselves in a situation like our own with Buendia; a player too good for the championship and attracting serious interest with a big fee. 

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Improving Colney is a start although originally paid for by the fans.

i take the point re Brentford but my point is more that I would be amazed if they sell players IF they are promoted. They have sold in the past when they have missed out on promotion which given their lack of any parachute payments is perhaps understandable. 
 

if we stay up this time we simply have to expand the ground. We are well capable of filling a larger ground and we need that legacy to show from our periods in the top flight. 

Fine, Jim, provided you are willing to accept that a significant chunk of the cost of expansion will have to be paid for with money that otherwise could have been spent on players.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,075]

14 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

If Atletico do make a firm bid it could be a tricky decision for Emi. Stop at Norwich to help the team stay up or play Champions league, fight for another Spanish title and triple your wages. 

I think the Max and Barcelona thing needs to be remembered here. On paper it sounds hard to deny Emi such a move should something materialise, but it has to be the right move. Imagine being Max Aarons at a tender age, having just been relegated and you hear Barcelona want to sign you. Imagine then being 'denied' that move. Lesser players would have thrown a tantrum. How remarkable then that Max not only commited to the club but also was fully accepting and kept his head, professionalism and stayed grounded to have another great season. Most players would surely think 'this may be the only opportunity I ever get to play at the highest level for one of the greatest clubs in the world'. 

It must have been hard to 'deny' Max that opportunity, even though it didnt come in the ideal form.

It would be hard to say no to any dream move for Emi. Like Max he has proved his loyalty and stayed playing at 2nd tier to help the club back up when he could easily have left, so I think few fans would begrudge a move - but what if its the wrong move? A low-ball fee, or a loan ala Max. Then we will see Emi's true character I guess. Given the loyalty he has shown Id like to think he'd behave like Max did.

Cantwell we know from a few seasons ago is a bit more petulant - but he may well have matured a little since then

[sgncfc 1,221]

 

4 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Perhaps when tiny Brentford go up, keep Toney and probably outspend us people will see how much we are at a disadvantaging ourselves when it comes to trying to make a go of it in the premier league. We haven’t even really managed to expand the ground or anything either.

You mean that tiny Brentford owned by Matthew Benham who is conservatively worth £500m? That Brentford who have just built a new ground as part of his £100m investment to date? They may have been among the first moneyball clubs but they're close to our model in that they have sold their best players every summer for the last few years and replaced them successfully with young, hungry bargains.

I suspect Toney and others will get a nice new contract if they win on Saturday - that sounds a bit familiar. That sounds like they might be two years behind us but doing exactly the same things but with the insurance of a nice wealthy owner. That Brentford?

[Midlands Yellow 3,920]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Oh I agree Hoggy. It's like when things are bad, probably the last time was 2009, I used love to find a happy thread to make me feel more at home🙃

 

Hoggy and Nutty in deep embrace shocker (again, and again and again) 

[Herman 9,698]

23 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I hope we have some good players lined up as it is increasingly looking like we could lose all 3 of our stars...Emi is a dead cert I think, Aarons very likely and Toddy could be tempted. It’s going to be an interesting summer...

 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

7 hours ago, sgncfc said:

 

You mean that tiny Brentford owned by Matthew Benham who is conservatively worth £500m? That Brentford who have just built a new ground as part of his £100m investment to date? They may have been among the first moneyball clubs but they're close to our model in that they have sold their best players every summer for the last few years and replaced them successfully with young, hungry bargains.

I suspect Toney and others will get a nice new contract if they win on Saturday - that sounds a bit familiar. That sounds like they might be two years behind us but doing exactly the same things but with the insurance of a nice wealthy owner. That Brentford?

Yes that Brentford. “Insurance of a nice wealthy owner”. Quite. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Yes that Brentford. “Insurance of a nice wealthy owner”. Quite. 

I actually have no issue with our model and wish to operate largely sustainably long term. It’s the attitude/approach to trying to stay in the premier at key moments that I am worried about. Such as now when rather than improving our current side we are all worrying about losing our two or three best players. That’s what the “insurance of a wealthy owner” or even investors can give you. Cash flow. The ability to take a bit of a punt occasionally. They also often pay for ground improvements! 

[duke63 541]

Most of the rumours are just media talk.

Writers have to  fill their daily quota of space to keep the advertisers happy.

Whatever happens this summer, we do have to remmeber that two years ago we were not good enough to stay in the premier League and we still have a very similar squad. To have any chance of staying up there does need to be 3  or 4 substantial investments in players who improve the team on the pitch.  If one or two players have to leave for big money to be able to do that then so be it.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

 

[Move Klose 303]

On 27/05/2021 at 07:19, Dean Coneys boots said:

I hope we have some good players lined up as it is increasingly looking like we could lose all 3 of our stars...Emi is a dead cert I think, Aarons very likely and Toddy could be tempted. It’s going to be an interesting summer...

Realistically what do these 3 go for.

Buendia - 35/40

Aarons - 25/30

Cantwell - 15/20

So 80ish million plus the rumoured 20m we have to spend, thats nearly 100m. I know its not as simple as that but thats potentially 8-10 very good new players if spent wisely.

[hogesar 9,611]

15 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

It absolutely is not outside the clubs control is it. It’s within the clubs control to simply not accept any bids at all and say they are staying. We won’t do that though because our model to allow our owners to keep hold of their train set dictates that when we get big enough offers we sell and all buying clubs know that.

Perhaps when tiny Brentford go up, keep Toney and probably outspend us people will see how much we are at a disadvantaging ourselves when it comes to trying to make a go of it in the premier league. We haven’t even really managed to expand the ground or anything either.

Disingenuous, disrespectful and ignorant of the fact that even a team like Spurs sell when they get big enough offers. Leciester sell when they get big enough offers. They all do. This weird thought process that we're unique in this is only explainable if you've never paid attention to the footballing world outside of NCFC for your entire living life.

[Thumbbass 318]

5 minutes ago, Move Klose said:

Realistically what do these 3 go for.

Buendia - 35/40

Aarons - 25/30

Cantwell - 15/20

So 80ish million plus the rumoured 20m we have to spend, thats nearly 100m. I know its not as simple as that but thats potentially 8-10 very good new players if spent wisely.

I know this is finger in the air stuff, but Cantwell is a proven goalscorer at PL level, England U21 and not reached his peak years. Plus he's an attacking player which is an additional premium - both him and MA are £25m+ surely? All we need to do is find someone who is a proven goalscorer at PL level, England U21 and not reached his peak years for less than £15m!

[BigFish 1,986]

15 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Norwich have a clear progression model for young, ambitious players they attract. 

They therefore have to be seen to be positive and open - welcoming even - of big money offers from top level clubs.

They have to promise this pathway to attract the Maddisons, Godfreys and Aarons’

They must also - reasonably regularly - deliver on it to show that it is more than rainbows and unicorns. 

However...

We are in the Premier League and Webber is no fool. 

At this moment in time the ‘open door’ strategy may be somewhat disingenuous. There is an element of ‘methinks he doth protest too much’ about the way we are so up front about it ...the way we are somewhat over-sharing the  ‘beauty parade’.

I suspect that this strategy is cuter than it first appears. It is really designed to appease players and their agents, to be whiter-than-white (vid the promise made to Max that ‘stay for a year, get us up and you can go’).

Maddison, Godfrey and Lewis - all replaceable - have already proved the integrity of the strategy, I suspect that Webber feels no need to labour the point at this Norwich City moment in time. Nor does he need to. 

Whilst These promises need to be seen to be upheld (in principle, as already shown) , Webber will all the while know that our Premier League Status, momentum and - hopefully - small influx of surprising-quality signings, can render the whole theatre moot. 

As @Bethnal Yellow and Green has pointed out the beauty-parade criteria: big step-up club + record transfer + tripling wages + player wants to go is actually pretty restrictive and even more so in current market context.

The ‘come-and-get-them’ strategy is thus conversely anything but. 

All 3 staying is far more likely than all 3 going in that context.

Parma

 

On this thread every poster should read this before throwing theit toys.

By all appearances the football world generally don't value the 3 as highly as we do

[hogesar 9,611]

10 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Hoggy and Nutty in deep embrace shocker (again, and again and again) 

Sensible people in agreement shocker, is what you likely meant to say.

[sgncfc 1,221]

3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I actually have no issue with our model and wish to operate largely sustainably long term. It’s the attitude/approach to trying to stay in the premier at key moments that I am worried about. Such as now when rather than improving our current side we are all worrying about losing our two or three best players. That’s what the “insurance of a wealthy owner” or even investors can give you. Cash flow. The ability to take a bit of a punt occasionally. They also often pay for ground improvements! 

Well, they build 17,500 capacity stadiums. Is that really ambitious enough for you, or anyone else on here? They have lost 9 previous playoff campaigns. Hopefully on Saturday they will lose another. We, on the other hand, have provided our "cash flow" by success on the pitch; I know which I prefer.

[canarydan23 4,060]

38 minutes ago, Thumbbass said:

I know this is finger in the air stuff, but Cantwell is a proven goalscorer at PL level, England U21 and not reached his peak years. Plus he's an attacking player which is an additional premium - both him and MA are £25m+ surely? All we need to do is find someone who is a proven goalscorer at PL level, England U21 and not reached his peak years for less than £15m!

Agree with this. Maddison was sold for was it £24 million without having graced the Premier League. Cantwell has proven himself an attacking threat and goalscorer in a very poor Premier League side. I would be very surprised if he went for less than Maddision did, despite the Covid hit to football finances.

[Rock The Boat 1,323]

Despite a moral-sapping relegation,we went into this season holding on to the trio of most saleable assets. That was no accident that EMI, Todd and Max all stayed with us. 

In the same vein, we sold Lewis, Godfrey and Madison for good fees and brought in replacements that were at least as good in quality. Again no accident. 

We now longer worry about carrying deadwood. 

Webber is a highly skilled operator and I have no doubts about his ability to navigate his way around building our squad for the coming season. I'm confident he has a plan B for every situation as it unfolds and he'll have a better budget this time around that gives him more room to maneuver. 

I totally trust Webber and look forward to seeing how it all plays out. Even if one our our stars leave Webber will have a contingency to deal with it.