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Transfer Rumour Thread Season 2021/22

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33 minutes ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

Worth noting however this wasn’t their promotion season, it was Ronald Koman replace Poch in their third season stamping his own identity on a team which tumbled down the league thereafter finishing one point above relegation a couple of years later.

@Fiery Zac's point is valid but so is this. Southampton waited a couple of seasons to establish themselves before selling off their star players and replacing them with (slightly) cheaper versions.

It is equally valid to ask if we'd expect Brentford to sell Toney, DaSilva and Raya this season? Or Watford to sell Sarr, Sema and Pedro?

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

@Fiery Zac's point is valid but so is this. Southampton waited a couple of seasons to establish themselves before selling off their star players and replacing them with (slightly) cheaper versions.

It is equally valid to ask if we'd expect Brentford to sell Toney, DaSilva and Raya this season? Or Watford to sell Sarr, Sema and Pedro?

Just on the subject of Raya, I had a quick look on transfermatkt to see what they value the new Brentford signings at (€7m each if interested), but, also noticed that they value Raya at €14m. Gunn is only rated at €3m and krul only €2.5m! Whilst I appreciate he is a good keeper and young, is he really any better than krul or nearly 5 times the player of Gunn?

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

@Jim Smith ....

I doubt that there will be a response - the "knockers" tend not to respond to facts and detail and prefer their simplistic prejudices.

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6 minutes ago, Badger said:

I doubt that there will be a response - the "knockers" tend not to respond to facts and detail and prefer their simplistic prejudices.

I think that is pretty unfair to Jim- you might not agree with him but he's never shied away from debate. 

It also doesn't help when you dismiss people who disagree with you as simplistic.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

@Fiery Zac's point is valid but so is this. Southampton waited a couple of seasons to establish themselves before selling off their star players and replacing them with (slightly) cheaper versions.

It is equally valid to ask if we'd expect Brentford to sell Toney, DaSilva and Raya this season? Or Watford to sell Sarr, Sema and Pedro?

Did Southampton wait, or did they not have the necessary interest in the players. Did they have someone as exceptional as Emi Buendia, already proven to be capable at Prem level, still young, a unique talent, who they managed to keep hold of despite relegation?

I know people don't like to hear it but it's a very unique scenario. I don't think Brentford or Watford would have held onto Buendia in the same situation, personally.

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4 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think that is pretty unfair to Jim- you might not agree with him but he's never shied away from debate. 

It also doesn't help when you dismiss people who disagree with you as simplistic.

The general point is undoubtedly correct.

We will see in Jim's case ...

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16 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Forget the football squad. What this thread has shown, yet again, is that the squad of reaction emojis is woefully short. Among many others there is a crying need for:

A clearly defined ‘Laughing Hysterically At’ to differentiate it from a ‘Laughing Affectionately With’.

A ‘You are a pea-brained miserabilist idiot but I am not allowed to say that’.

A ‘Yes, I know I said the exact opposite two hours ago. What of it?’

A ‘You say our pauper owners are holding us back? Interesting. Not an argument I’ve heard before’.

A ‘No, the owners are not pocketing money from the club. If they were they wouldn’t be paupers now, would they?’

An all-purpose suicidal ‘Goodbye cruel world - I cannot take anymore’.

A ‘You do know the transfer window has only been open for one day, right?’

Suicide Icon #277506 - Free Icons Library
 
 

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Just now, hogesar said:

Did Southampton wait, or did they not have the necessary interest in the players. Did they have someone as exceptional as Emi Buendia, already proven to be capable at Prem level, still young, a unique talent, who they managed to keep hold of despite relegation?

I know people don't like to hear it but it's a very unique scenario. I don't think Brentford or Watford would have held onto Buendia in the same situation, personally.

Obviously impossible to know either way how much interest a player like Lallana generated when they get promoted. I can't imagine though they'd have been keen to sell him to a team like Sunderland or Villa who were both midtable the season before.

I think Sarr and Buendia are pretty equivalent to be honest- players who have shown talent in the Premier League previously, had excellent Championship seasons and young enough to improve going forward.

Yet the noises from the respective clubs are night and day- here is a quote from the Watford chairman...

In May Giaretta told the Observer:"We want to keep the best players that we have in the squad. Sarr, Joao Pedro and the best players, or the players that we consider important for this team, we want to keep them. We are not in the market for selling our best players, we're just in the market for understanding how we can strengthen the team by signing good players, and especially signing players who we think can have an important chance at an important club."

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Southampton waited a couple of seasons to establish themselves before selling off their star players

Southampton sold off their crown jewel the year before (Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain) whilst in the Championship. 

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Just now, Badger said:

Southampton sold off their crown jewel the year before (Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain) whilst in the Championship. 

Yes I'm aware, it isn't the point being debated though is it? Nobody is questioning a Championship club selling players to a Premier league team. The question is why have basically no other newly promoted team sold their best players?

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2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Southampton sold off their crown jewel the year before (Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain) whilst in the Championship. 

This is the equivalent of selling Maddison to build a championship promotion team, not selling star players upon promotion. When Southampton did it, 3 years into their PL stay it very nearly (1pt) relegated them not make them stronger.

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10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Did Southampton wait, or did they not have the necessary interest in the players. Did they have someone as exceptional as Emi Buendia, already proven to be capable at Prem level, still young, a unique talent, who they managed to keep hold of despite relegation?

I know people don't like to hear it but it's a very unique scenario. I don't think Brentford or Watford would have held onto Buendia in the same situation, personally.

Whatever they did has clearly worked (so far). We just need to make sure that we invest like they have.

Sarr to Watford is what Buendia was to Norwich, so they did keep hold of their gem. 

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8 minutes ago, king canary said:

it isn't the point being debated though is it?

Sorry KC but it is really the point. If we had followed the Southampton model we would have sold Buendia last season not this - how would that have been better?*

*I'm going out now so won't be able to respond until later

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Just now, Badger said:

Sorry KC but it is really the point. If we had followed the Southampton model we would have sold Buendia last season not this - how would that have been better?*

*I'm going out now so won't be able to respond until later

We sold Godfrey and Lewis last season- so we did follow the same model? Southampton didn't sell all of their best players, neither did we.

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8 minutes ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

This is the equivalent of selling Maddison to build a championship promotion team, not selling star players upon promotion. When Southampton did it, 3 years into their PL stay it very nearly (1pt) relegated them not make them stronger.

Wrong - they didn't use it to build a championship promotion team - they kept about 3/4 of it as a transfer profit. 

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

Wrong - they didn't use it to build a championship promotion team - they kept about 3/4 of it as a transfer profit. 

So...like we did last season with Godfrey and Lewis?

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44 minutes ago, king canary said:

Obviously impossible to know either way how much interest a player like Lallana generated when they get promoted. I can't imagine though they'd have been keen to sell him to a team like Sunderland or Villa who were both midtable the season before.

I think Sarr and Buendia are pretty equivalent to be honest- players who have shown talent in the Premier League previously, had excellent Championship seasons and young enough to improve going forward.

Yet the noises from the respective clubs are night and day- here is a quote from the Watford chairman...

In May Giaretta told the Observer:"We want to keep the best players that we have in the squad. Sarr, Joao Pedro and the best players, or the players that we consider important for this team, we want to keep them. We are not in the market for selling our best players, we're just in the market for understanding how we can strengthen the team by signing good players, and especially signing players who we think can have an important chance at an important club."

See, I'm not sure Sarr is equivalent. In terms of team importance, yes. But the financials are hugely different. Sarr cost Watford something like £30 million, didn't he? They must still have a big chunk of that to pay.

That makes negotiations very different. If they get £40-45 million for him, not only is that miniscule profit compared to Emi, it's also only a small amount of money left likely to strengthen the team.

It also makes him too expensive for a lot of the midtable Premier League teams. Certainly, Watford weren't opposed to selling him upon relegation but by all accounts only had loan offers from the likes of Liverpool, who are apparently still interested in him.

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48 minutes ago, king canary said:

Obviously impossible to know either way how much interest a player like Lallana generated when they get promoted. I can't imagine though they'd have been keen to sell him to a team like Sunderland or Villa who were both midtable the season before.

I think Sarr and Buendia are pretty equivalent to be honest- players who have shown talent in the Premier League previously, had excellent Championship seasons and young enough to improve going forward.

Yet the noises from the respective clubs are night and day- here is a quote from the Watford chairman...

In May Giaretta told the Observer:"We want to keep the best players that we have in the squad. Sarr, Joao Pedro and the best players, or the players that we consider important for this team, we want to keep them. We are not in the market for selling our best players, we're just in the market for understanding how we can strengthen the team by signing good players, and especially signing players who we think can have an important chance at an important club."

So what? 

That's Watford. We're not Watford.

We chose to sell. He's gone. It's irrelevant what Watford did with Sarr.

Equally with Southampton, that's their decisions taken at the time of those sales. What they did or didn't do is irrelevant to us at this point in time.

The long and short of it is that selling Buendia (or any of our better players) is a massive gamble. Yes it gives us opportunity to reinvest in deals we'd otherwise have been unable to afford. But I'd rather keep a player who has proven his ability within this system. The only time we should have sold is if we got an unbelievable offer from a club able to offer something we cannot.

For me, Aston Villa is not that club and £38.5m is not that offer.

Still, the club disagree with me and have sold him. The only way we will be able to judge is at the end of the season. Go down and we will rightly criticise Webber. Stay up, and we will probably have to admit it was the right thing to do as it gave us the ability to build a squad capable of it.

Until the end of the season, I see nothing to be gained in going over this tired, repetitive argument, again and again and again.

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10 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Until the end of the season, I see nothing to be gained in going over this tired, repetitive argument, again and again and again.

Agreed, but you have left out a crucial element, which we will probably never know, but will have been clear to the club. And that is what sort of a player we would have had if we’d hung on to Emi. If he’d downed tools and sulked for a season, we would have been far worse off than with the money in the bank.

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7 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Agreed, but you have left out a crucial element, which we will probably never know, but will have been clear to the club. And that is what sort of a player we would have had if we’d hung on to Emi. If he’d downed tools and sulked for a season, we would have been far worse off than with the money in the bank.

Good point. It’s been told to us that Emis head wasn’t in the right place at the beginning of last season. Another window with definite interest but we refuse to sell this time round and who knows how disruptive he would have been. That’s not the club way and not why the best manager I’ve known at the club has signed on for another 4 years.

People can deny it all they want but selling was the only option for the club.

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You are correct, but if 

"If he’d downed tools and sulked for a season, we would have been far worse off than with the money in the bank."

Then he wouldn't have been a Farke player anymore and he could even be accused of overestimating a move to Villa Park ... money apart.

I seem to remember Emi recently extolling the virtues of NCFC, Farke, his team mates and even the area for his newborn to grow up in.

All the time his agent and the man himself  seemed to be planning a lucrative departure.

Good luck to him. No fault there beacuse that is the norm now.

I sense that he will move from a comfortable situation  to one more demanding though, money discounted.

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18 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Agreed, but you have left out a crucial element, which we will probably never know, but will have been clear to the club. And that is what sort of a player we would have had if we’d hung on to Emi. If he’d downed tools and sulked for a season, we would have been far worse off than with the money in the bank.

You are correct, but if 

"If he’d downed tools and sulked for a season, we would have been far worse off than with the money in the bank."

Then he wouldn't have been a Farke player anymore and he could even be accused of overestimating a move to Villa Park ... money apart.

I seem to remember Emi recently extolling the virtues of NCFC, Farke, his team mates and even the area for his newborn to grow up in.

All the time his agent and the man himself  seemed to be planning a lucrative departure.

Good luck to him. No fault there beacuse that is the norm now.

I sense that he will move from a comfortable situation  to one more demanding though, money discounted.

 
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3 hours ago, hogesar said:

@Jim Smith ....

Fair enough I did not realise that.

However as has been pointed out it was once they had been up for a couple of seasons, in the context of a managerial change and I would also point out that they signed 5 players in 14/15 for 8 figure sums (plus another for £9m), signed 4 players for 8 figure sums in 16/17 and in the year between bought Virgil Van Dijk. I think its a fairly crucial point that their established premier league status presumably meant they were offering better wages than we are currently able to which meant they were able to beat us to players like Van Dijk for example. 

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Did Southampton wait, or did they not have the necessary interest in the players. Did they have someone as exceptional as Emi Buendia, already proven to be capable at Prem level, still young, a unique talent, who they managed to keep hold of despite relegation?

I know people don't like to hear it but it's a very unique scenario. I don't think Brentford or Watford would have held onto Buendia in the same situation, personally.

Watford are in the same scenarion with Sarr surely?

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PS i'm not really questioning that the Southampton type model is the one we need to go down but they have aqlways done it (as do Leicester) from a position of relative strength as an established premier league side. that makes a huge difference to trying to do it as a yo-yo side because you can go for the next level of player up as your replacement and offer them competitive wages. Perhaps rashica is the start of us doing that - we will have to wait and see. i still maintain, however, that selling Buendia, max and Todd for us right at this moment in time (and bearing in mind what else we have and what we could get to replace them with our financial ceiling) would be seriously risky. 

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9 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

PS i'm not really questioning that the Southampton type model is the one we need to go down but they have aqlways done it (as do Leicester) from a position of relative strength as an established premier league side. that makes a huge difference to trying to do it as a yo-yo side because you can go for the next level of player up as your replacement and offer them competitive wages. Perhaps rashica is the start of us doing that - we will have to wait and see. i still maintain, however, that selling Buendia, max and Todd for us right at this moment in time (and bearing in mind what else we have and what we could get to replace them with our financial ceiling) would be seriously risky. 

I don't think anyone can really disagree with that, Jim.

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Emi and Todd at the beginning of last season were not right after clubs had apparently shown an interest, and who knows they may have been told that if a team comes in for them and meets Norwich's valuation then they can go.

Regardless, Norwich have valuations of their players and if that valuation is met then we will sell and then re-invest, if we  manage to establish ourselves then after a couple of seasons then our situation may differ.

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Just now, tricky974 said:

who knows they may have been told that if a team comes in for them and meets Norwich's valuation then they can go.

We know as Webber publicly said no sort of agreement existed.

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

Obviously impossible to know either way how much interest a player like Lallana generated when they get promoted. I can't imagine though they'd have been keen to sell him to a team like Sunderland or Villa who were both midtable the season before.

I think Sarr and Buendia are pretty equivalent to be honest- players who have shown talent in the Premier League previously, had excellent Championship seasons and young enough to improve going forward.

Yet the noises from the respective clubs are night and day- here is a quote from the Watford chairman...

In May Giaretta told the Observer:"We want to keep the best players that we have in the squad. Sarr, Joao Pedro and the best players, or the players that we consider important for this team, we want to keep them. We are not in the market for selling our best players, we're just in the market for understanding how we can strengthen the team by signing good players, and especially signing players who we think can have an important chance at an important club."

But Watford are far wealthier than us ... if we had their finances maybe we could have tempted Emi to stay - we don't.

If we aren't selling out to a billionaire investor then this is inevitable.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

We know as Webber publicly said no sort of agreement existed.

I didn't realise 👍

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