Timo Werner, he's one of our own

[Thumbbass 318]

I haven't watched a lot of him outside of the PL where his strike rate was better, but although he isn't able to hit a barn door, the guy stretches defences with his pace and makes so much space for the more technical players in and around him.

I'd get Placheta watching TWs movement and say, mate, this is what we want you to do. Don't worry about scoring, just scare the beejeezzuuuz out of the right back. 

Last time out in the PL we were stifled and pressed into submission by some teams. If Placheta was used as an outlet like TW I can't help thinking that although he looks just as unpredictable as TW in terms of shooting and control, his inclusion would give us those few extra yards. Even if his control is a bit wayward, he'd only need to make one run in behind to buy us an exta few yards. 

He'd be one of those team inclusions that could tactically make sense even if individually he may look a little lost. I hope that over the summer his confidence improves because he could be like a new signing.

[Ken Hairy 3,756]

I've watched a lot of German football, and specifically Leipzig (due to a very enjoyable FM save about 5 years ago). Werner is a fantastic footballer, ticks most boxes to be successful in English football. For whatever reason he's struggled this season but I fully expect him to come good next season. My Chelsea neighbour pointed out Drogba was poor in his first season, as was Iwan Roberts here. 

[Thumbbass 318]

I just think that having one up front as we do, and that one being Teemu, we invite teams onto us with little threat in behind. Teemu's movement is terrific but he isn't much quicker than most PL defenders so we do need to make teams think a little more - i.e. do we keep a high line and stifle the space or are they just going to pop it over/through to the quick lad and make us look silly.

I'm being a little flippant comparing Placheta to TW but, even in a poor season personally for him he's been an effective team player.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

Firstly, has Werner been as bad as people make out? Even aside from his work rate and his running of the channels which opens space for teammates, 12 goals and 14 assists isn't that bad, it's a goal involvement every 136 minutes, which is one every game-and-a-half. It's just his finishing that has let him down.

I get the point with Placheta, but it's tough to compare as they play in completely different positions. Werner plays predominantly as a lone striker, whereas Placheta is a wide player.

[Thumbbass 318]

4 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Firstly, has Werner been as bad as people make out? Even aside from his work rate and his running of the channels which opens space for teammates, 12 goals and 14 assists isn't that bad, it's a goal involvement every 136 minutes, which is one every game-and-a-half. It's just his finishing that has let him down.

I get the point with Placheta, but it's tough to compare as they play in completely different positions. Werner plays predominantly as a lone striker, whereas Placheta is a wide player.

His finishing has been woeful and in reality should have doubled his tally. But you've got to be getting in the right places even if you're missing, as mentioned by Ken above, next season might be a different prospect. 

Placheta just looks like the type of player that needs to be told what he has to do, unlike Emi or Todd who need to be told what not to do. I.e. model yourself on this guy, stop turning back on yourself get your head down and run like hell.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

1 minute ago, Thumbbass said:

His finishing has been woeful and in reality should have doubled his tally. But you've got to be getting in the right places even if you're missing, as mentioned by Ken above

Exactly. Cameron Jerome missed quite a lot of chances for us but his movement off the ball to get himself into the positions to miss was very underrated. Chris Brown scored one in 24 for us and barely had any chances to miss.

[Petriix 2,834]

1 hour ago, Thumbbass said:

I just think that having one up front as we do, and that one being Teemu, we invite teams onto us with little threat in behind. Teemu's movement is terrific but he isn't much quicker than most PL defenders so we do need to make teams think a little more - i.e. do we keep a high line and stifle the space or are they just going to pop it over/through to the quick lad and make us look silly.

I'm being a little flippant comparing Placheta to TW but, even in a poor season personally for him he's been an effective team player.

What now? Pukki is slow?

I think you might have been watching a different Norwich in an alternate reality. The key to Pukki's movement is that he times his runs to perfection. He jogs about a bit, generally looks disinterested and 'off the pace' to lull the defenders into switching off for a second or two. Then he disappears from their view for a moment just as we turn the ball over and somehow pops up, goal side, just after the ball has been played through.

If you're going to criticise the man then you could argue that he misses a lot of great chances because his finishing is not quite as good as his movement. But he's not much different to Mo Salah in that respect. Unfortunately, Placheta simply doesn't have the quality on the ball to reliably fit any role in a Premier League team (or arguably at Championship level either). He might improve his touch over time but he's got a long way to go before he's anywhere close to the required standard.

[AJ 1,218]

I don't think Werner has been that bad, he's just not got the goals to go with his performances. He's still getting in all the right places to score goals, it'll come for him. I think a lot of German football focuses on speed in this era; Gnabry, Reus, Werner, Sane, Brandt etc., but the Premier League is a bit more physical and demanding, and that takes time for players to adjust

[Thumbbass 318]

19 minutes ago, Petriix said:

What now? Pukki is slow?

I think you might have been watching a different Norwich in an alternate reality. The key to Pukki's movement is that he times his runs to perfection. He jogs about a bit, generally looks disinterested and 'off the pace' to lull the defenders into switching off for a second or two. Then he disappears from their view for a moment just as we turn the ball over and somehow pops up, goal side, just after the ball has been played through.

If you're going to criticise the man then you could argue that he misses a lot of great chances because his finishing is not quite as good as his movement. But he's not much different to Mo Salah in that respect. Unfortunately, Placheta simply doesn't have the quality on the ball to reliably fit any role in a Premier League team (or arguably at Championship level either). He might improve his touch over time but he's got a long way to go before he's anywhere close to the required standard.

🤨 Where did I say Pukki was slow? How have I criticised him? I also didn't say he should stop wearing a fedora and ballet shoes in away games but you missed those in your post. He isn't electric, fact. 

Are premier league defenders quicker, and better than Champs defenders, also fact. It assists Pukki's movement for the defence to have more than one issue to deal with rather than being the only option when we are being pressed in. That's the theme of the OP.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,669]

Werner is the kind of striker who could round the keeper, have an empty open goal for him to pass it into.. And he would end up missing, kicking the ball out of the stadium into the carpark

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

Having watched Placheta plenty of times I don't think he's capeable of really using his pace in n effective way yet. He's going to require a lot more coaching before he becomes dangerous at PL level.

 

The problem is he could cause problems by running onto balls over the top, but we don't play that way and PL defences usually mop that type of play up with minimal effort and he can't yet actually run particularly quickly with the ball at his feet it seems to me. He's a fast dribbler but not exceptionally fast and he's definitely nothing special by PL standards. With the ball at his feet he's about on par with Hernandez for pace, he can cause issues, but he's never going to really frighten top level full backs

[FatCanary 249]

2 hours ago, Petriix said:

What now? Pukki is slow?

I think you might have been watching a different Norwich in an alternate reality. The key to Pukki's movement is that he times his runs to perfection. He jogs about a bit, generally looks disinterested and 'off the pace' to lull the defenders into switching off for a second or two. Then he disappears from their view for a moment just as we turn the ball over and somehow pops up, goal side, just after the ball has been played through.

If you're going to criticise the man then you could argue that he misses a lot of great chances because his finishing is not quite as good as his movement. But he's not much different to Mo Salah in that respect. Unfortunately, Placheta simply doesn't have the quality on the ball to reliably fit any role in a Premier League team (or arguably at Championship level either). He might improve his touch over time but he's got a long way to go before he's anywhere close to the required standard.

Mo Salah having not very good finishing is an interesting take...

[FatCanary 249]

I would argue Pukki misses a lot of great chances because his foot's been a bit ****ed for years and as soon as it starts playing up he stops shooting properly

Edited May 17, 2021 by FatCanary
grammar

[hogesar 9,609]

Feels a little disingenuous to even talk about Werner and Placheta in the same sentence.

[Thumbbass 318]

RE: Placheta, bit of major tournament experience coming his way this summer too. He could be a different prospect next season.

There are some things you cannot train into a player who doesn't have the genetics, and natural pace like his is one of them.

[Thumbbass 318]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Feels a little disingenuous to even talk about Werner and Placheta in the same sentence.

I was being a little generous, but actually talking about the dynamics of the team and what he could offer it's not too far a leap in terms of stretching defences. I do not think they are directly comparable players.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

3 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Werner is the kind of striker who could round the keeper, have an empty open goal for him to pass it into.. And he would end up missing, kicking the ball out of the stadium into the carpark

Even for you Cambridgeo,  thats  serious Hype!!  

Could also apply to Placheta,  just substitute winger for striker. 

If he comes good,  (pepe)1he'll  be very dangerous,  said it before  , the kid needs to relax, enjoy,and do what got him noticed in the first place.

Stop trying so hard basically.  

[king canary 7,559]

3 hours ago, Thumbbass said:

🤨 Where did I say Pukki was slow? How have I criticised him? I also didn't say he should stop wearing a fedora and ballet shoes in away games but you missed those in your post. He isn't electric, fact. 

Are premier league defenders quicker, and better than Champs defenders, also fact. It assists Pukki's movement for the defence to have more than one issue to deal with rather than being the only option when we are being pressed in. That's the theme of the OP.

Agreed, nothing wrong with your original post- Pukki is clever and times his runs well which means he gets in behind based on that rather than raw pace and Premier League defenders are a bit more likely to be able to catch up with him that some of the cloggers in the Championship. Doesn't mean he's slow, just he isn't Thierry Henry fast. 

[sgncfc 1,221]

Every striker misses chances - if you compare Pukki's conversion ratio to shots taken it's right up there with the best. Werner's not so much. The difference is that Werner cost £53m and Pukki didn't. Nor did Placheta, who has made the Poland squad again, so more than one manager rates him.

[Thumbbass 318]

Called it. Maybe!

Regardless of my inexhaustible footballing expertise and bottomless humility I really hope Placheta kicks on from a good performance on Saturday. The simpler style allowing Placheta to play to his strengths gives us another dynamic going forward. Let's hope someone can finish them off tonight.

[Mr Angry 1,542]

Just a small point, but Werner is now in his second season at Chelsea and the fact that Tuchel signed Lukaku makes me think that he doesn’t rate Werner.

[Thumbbass 318]

15 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Just a small point, but Werner is now in his second season at Chelsea and the fact that Tuchel signed Lukaku makes me think that he doesn’t rate Werner.

Can't blame him. Werner isn't clinical enough, but then you look who's actually scoring for Chelsea and wonder if the centre forward role is as important for them as it is for us. I'm not saying Placheta is directly comparable to Werner but rather that Werner was used to unlock defences through pure pace. Imagine Mings covering for his CB with Placheta sprinting away from him - that's a red card scenario if I ever imagined one.

[Google Bot 3,255]

1 hour ago, Mr Angry said:

fact that Tuchel signed Lukaku makes me think that he doesn’t rate Werner.

Played less games, yet scored the same as Lukaku this season plus Timo has additional assists, and far higher shot accuracy (69% vs 45%)

Tuchel is a stats man, what he rates will majorly be determined on those kind of figures.

[overthebordercanary 140]

On 17/05/2021 at 12:06, cambridgeshire canary said:

Werner is the kind of striker who could round the keeper, have an empty open goal for him to pass it into.. And he would end up missing, kicking the ball out of the stadium into the carpark

You make him sound like the German Josh Sargent