OT:Sam Allardyce

[mannings bandy legs 439]

Quote "I can do a job anywhere,for anyone,and be successful!" Ask West Brom fans if they agree. Man's delusional.

[Newtopia 573]

1 minute ago, mannings bandy legs said:

Quote "I can do a job anywhere,for anyone,and be successful!" Ask West Brom fans if they agree. Man's delusional.

He can do a job for anyone, or anywhere,  I suspect it is what he means when he says be successful.  His appointment seemed a pretty big switch in philosophy at WBA.  Let’s see how they are doing in two years time

[KiwiScot 1,684]

Ask any England fan.

[horsefly 5,301]

Ask any undercover reporter

[Indy 3,471]

To be fair to him and8m not a fan of the man, he took a really poor performing team and certainly made them better, too late.

[sgncfc 1,330]

Fingers crossed he takes over at 1p5wich next.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,616]

59 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Ask any England fan.

100% record.

As for Allardyce's record generally, he has more hits than misses on his CV, which is pretty decent for a manager at the top level.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

Allardyce always gets a bum rap from a media landscape that doesn't like how his Bolton team in particular upset a lot of media darlings over the years. Kept very dysfunctional clubs such as Blackburn and Newcastle in the top flight and arguably laid the foundations for both Everton and West Ham to thrive bearing in mind Everton were in relegation trouble when he came (and then he had them on the edges of the battle for Europe before falling to 8th). I really don't need to mention how good Bolton were at the back end of his management too.

Blackburn, Bolton, Sunderland, and Newcastle were all relegated after he left.

He's a bloody good manager. The only ones who are delusional are those who think he isn't.

[sgncfc 1,330]

3 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

100% record.

As for Allardyce's record generally, he has more hits than misses on his CV, which is pretty decent for a manager at the top level.

Really? In 30 years as a manager he has won one promotion from Div 3, and 2 promotions from Div 2. His "successes" have been avoiding relegation by playing dreadful percentage football. How he ever got near the England job, let alone appointed, is beyond me and just emphasises the complete ineptitude at the FA. 

[Newtopia 573]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

To be fair to him and8m not a fan of the man, he took a really poor performing team and certainly made them better, too late.

In the classic, short term results over long term development.  You can put 'Colin' and 'Tony Pulis' in the same group.  We have been privileged to watch the impact of Delia / Michael’s decisions and values.   Webber and Farke weren't lucky appointments.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Newtopia

[Haus 267]

8 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Really? In 30 years as a manager he has won one promotion from Div 3, and 2 promotions from Div 2. His "successes" have been avoiding relegation by playing dreadful percentage football. How he ever got near the England job, let alone appointed, is beyond me and just emphasises the complete ineptitude at the FA. 

Finishing 8th in the Premier league with Bolton Wanderers was a success

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

1 minute ago, Haus said:

Finishing 8th in the Premier league with Bolton Wanderers was a success

They came 6th in 2005. Achieved four consecutive top-eight finishes between 2003/04 and 2006/07. Only Chelsea, Utd, Liverpool, and Arsenal were more consistent over that four-year period. Not to mention, they played some bloody good stuff too.

I always ask this question of Allardyce critics: do you seriously think players like Anelka, Okocha, Giannakopoulos, Diouf, Djorkaeff, Hierro et al would have come along to Bolton if all they played was hoof, hoof, and hoof again?

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

He's Marmite.

[Dr Greenthumb 793]

3 hours ago, mannings bandy legs said:

Quote "I can do a job anywhere,for anyone,and be successful!" Ask West Brom fans if they agree. Man's delusional.

As someone who knows a fair few baggies fans, they generally believe he is doing a better job than Bilic could have and the football is more entertaining!!!

[Move Klose 303]

I'm not much of an Allardyce fan, but he's done alrite there, they are still going down, think he probably has them in a better position than Bilic wouldve done.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,616]

1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

Really? In 30 years as a manager he has won one promotion from Div 3, and 2 promotions from Div 2. His "successes" have been avoiding relegation by playing dreadful percentage football. How he ever got near the England job, let alone appointed, is beyond me and just emphasises the complete ineptitude at the FA. 

If you're using promotions and trophies as a barometer for success, there are lots of big name managers with less success than Allardyce. 

His jobs have nearly always been with smaller clubs, and of his seven previous Premier League jobs (excluding his current one), he has left six of those clubs in a higher position than when he was appointed.

[glory.win or die. 273]

5 hours ago, Newtopia said:

In the classic, short term results over long term development.  You can put 'Colin' and 'Tony Pulis' in the same group.  We have been privileged to watch the impact of Delia / Michael’s decisions and values.   Webber and Farke weren't lucky appointments.

To be fair to Warnock, he has had alot of success with promotions.

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

I like him but wouldn't want him anywhere near Norwich City.

[alex_ncfc 686]

It's probably a bit of a shame for Big Sam that in recent years he's seen as a firefighter to get teams out of relegation trouble, rather than being given a prolonged spell like he had at Bolton. He was quite unlucky to be dumped by Everton after saving their season. Be interesting to see if he stays at WBA now, who are surely going down. I genuinely thought he'd jump ship before they were relegated to save his "never been relegated" status or whatever it is. 

[king canary 8,757]

6 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

They came 6th in 2005. Achieved four consecutive top-eight finishes between 2003/04 and 2006/07. Only Chelsea, Utd, Liverpool, and Arsenal were more consistent over that four-year period. Not to mention, they played some bloody good stuff too.

I always ask this question of Allardyce critics: do you seriously think players like Anelka, Okocha, Giannakopoulos, Diouf, Djorkaeff, Hierro et al would have come along to Bolton if all they played was hoof, hoof, and hoof again?

Honestly if Farke achieved half of what Allerdyce did with Bolton we'd be absolutely creaming ourselves.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

4 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

If you're using promotions and trophies as a barometer for success, there are lots of big name managers with less success than Allardyce. 

His jobs have nearly always been with smaller clubs, and of his seven previous Premier League jobs (excluding his current one), he has left six of those clubs in a higher position than when he was appointed.

Exactly this. Let's go through the career, shall we? He had a short stint as player-manager at Limerick, then was a caretaker at Preston, but his first job as a bona-fide manager was at Blackpool. They nearly got relegated from Division Three at the time and he started at the end of that season. He got them into mid-table the season after and in the promotion play-offs the season after that - when he got sacked. So, he took them from the bottom of Division Three (or League One in current money) to losing in the play-offs in two seasons.

From there he went to Notts County. Incidentally, he's been their longest-serving manager since he left. Back in October 1999. He arrived too late to save them from relegation from Division Three in 1997, but then won Division Four in record style the season after, becoming the first post-war manager to have promotion sewn up by March. Fell out with the chairman the season after on not being financially supported, then went to Bolton. So, he's got relegated with a struggling team, then had a record-breaking season the year after, and kept them up after that. Again, they're better off than when they started.

Bolton. I'll just say, as a Canary living in Bolton, that Big Sam won't ever need to stick his hand in his pocket for a pint of wine here ever again. He turned a Bolton side in the bottom half of Division Two (or the Championship if you like) and got them to the play-offs, losing to the Binners. The year after, he led Bolton to the play-offs and this time took them up to the top flight. This started a stint in the top flight for the Wanderers that lasted ten years. He took them to four consecutive top-eight finishes and generally proved a pain in the **** to loads of folks who patronised "little Bolton". (And it was wonderful).

Then it was the dysfunctional clown show that is Newcastle. He pretty much got in as Mike Ashley did. Which was pretty unfortunate timing. He was only there for eight months.

Next up was Blackburn (bit unfortunate as a Bolton hero, but never mind). He took over when they were 19th with 3 wins from 17 games. No matter. They finished that season in tenth. Then the Venky set took over and sacked him when 13th in the table. Went downhill after that, didn't it, Venkys??

After that, West Ham United. They'd just been relegated under Avram Grant, who also got the order of the boot. Allardyce got them straight back up via the play-offs and kept them in the Premiership for the next three seasons before his contract was not renewed. There were protests about the style of football earlier on in his reign, but he did what he was meant to, which was get them back up, and keep them there.

After that, Sunderland. They were 19th in the Premier when he came, and he had the Adam Johnson crap to deal with. He still kept them up, just. Considering they only had 3 points from the first eight games when he took over, he did pretty well to pull that one off.

Then the England gig. No need to repeat that one. One game, one late winner, one scandal. Which a lot of Bolton fans think was a media spike.

After that, Palace after Pardew went on one of his epic losing streaks. Allardyce comes in at December 2016, kept them up with a couple of games to spare, and left in May 2017. Did his job again.

Then it's Everton starting from November 2017. They were on the fringes of the relegation scrap at the time but he took them to eighth and left at the end of the season.

Measuring success in the form of trophies with those teams in the situations they found themselves is a bit odd. He has a reputation as a pragmatist, but he's excellent at getting teams to mould quickly and getting results, and he's also excellent at sorting s-h-i-t out. He's suffered from not having a reasonably stable environment to work in, as that Bolton team showed that, over time, his teams can genuinely play entertaining football.

But, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks Allardyce is a crap manager doesn't have the slightest idea what they're on about.

Edited May 3, 2021 by TheGunnShow

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

Watching WBA v Wolves.

Commentator says "Diagne comes alive in the box".

Thats his 3rd goal of the season.😂

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

4 hours ago, king canary said:

Honestly if Farke achieved half of what Allerdyce did with Bolton we'd be absolutely creaming ourselves.

But would we want to pay the same price that Bolton have paid for that "success", the club nearly went out of existence. For me teams like Bolton are an example of the danger of risking everything chasing the Premiership dream.........

[All the Germans 1,239]

43 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

But would we want to pay the same price that Bolton have paid for that "success", the club nearly went out of existence. For me teams like Bolton are an example of the danger of risking everything chasing the Premiership dream.........

But that's not that Allardyce's fault? Surely there is an owner / chairman / director who is responsible for the running of the business. The manager can want to sign players for £££££k per week but the man in charge should say no. Any owner who gives carte blance to a manager who is usually only a temporary incumbent deserves everything they get. 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

41 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

But that's not that Allardyce's fault? Surely there is an owner / chairman / director who is responsible for the running of the business. The manager can want to sign players for £££££k per week but the man in charge should say no. Any owner who gives carte blance to a manager who is usually only a temporary incumbent deserves everything they get. 

Never said it was. I have nothing against Allardyce and there is no doubt that under his stewardship they became a very good side. Of course I would love to see us achieve a top ten finish in the Premier League three seasons on the bounce but not if it meant we nearly go out of existence, rack up debts of £170M+, and end up in the fourth tier of English football...........