Jump to content
crab man

Farke Contract Rumours

Recommended Posts

Just seen the article on the home page stating we are set to open talks with Farke over a new contract to fend off interest from elsewhere. Although rumours at this stage, you'd imagine it makes sense given our promotion. 

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/daniel-farke-norwich-city-new-contract-7938922


As he said himself we don't need to be worried as he always honours contracts... so do we think he is likely to sign if offered new terms or is it dependant on survival? 

I'm sure I read somewhere that his family are still in Germany and it seems like a long time to be away from them. Saying that I think we'd all love him to stay longer but I can't see him fancying another season in the Championship if we come straight back down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes sense to do it at the end of the season anyway. Get the prize, then discuss the rewards when not so distracted on things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A part of me thinks that should we stay up next season he will stick around.

 

Should we get relegated however- I do think he will be off. After all at that point he will have done all he can for us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, he has nothing to prove at championship level anymore.  But if we can stay up and start to push on, I could see him staying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that this coming season may well be something of a Shakespearean fulcrum for Norwich City.

Farke honours contracts, though there is no reason that performance-related clauses cannot work reciprocally. This would be a clean, honourable exit, though to Norwich’s detriment regardless. 
 Farke is hot at the moment - as is Webber - and Norwich as an entity will need to show more competitiveness to retain key staff across the board. 

Should Norwich be relegated again - even closely and unluckily - an exodus of key playing talent and Managerial talent would look inevitable. 

The fundamental issue is that the Champs-Premier gap is wider and more damaging than any linear, progressive ISO9001 model can handle (or be expected to handle). 

Top stars - playing or sporting - are intrinsically competitive. Glass ceilings are instinctively felt and rejected. Dreams and visions only carry as far as the door to reality. 

It can certainly be done - Norwich are far, far better structured and equipped than they were last time. 

Though - conversely - far, far more now rides on it. 

Parma

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
  • Like 2
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suspect a somewhat different message will run through preparations for this Premier season, intrinsically linked to the points above. This season is indeed pivotal.

Tettey and Vrancic’s exits are somewhat demonstrative and are a classic and deliberate Webber message that ‘this time is different’. There will be no sentimentality, nothing other than maximum focus on staying up. 

Webber likes to play his cards hard - in either direction - as we have seen. 

Any professional - Webber and Farke included - will await the outcome of such a dynamic all-in strategy. Further evidence of the fulcrum nature of this season. 

Parma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As cautious as they were last time around, in a way the plan has worked as we are financially sound, able to spend decent sums on decent players and have a better, more prepared squad of players. I think we do need to be a bit more adventurous this summer and need to spend what we can on the areas we need to improve to stand a chance if surviving. If it fails this time then both Webber and Farke will be at the end of a difficult junction, they can't keep doing the same thing over and over and may outgrow the club. I certainly think that's the case for Webber, but could perhaps see Farke staying if we fail as long as his passion is still there, and so is his relationship with the fans. The tone does certainly seems different this time, the wording is far less cautious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get the contract out, put it on the table, let him sign it and let him put whatever numbers he wants to put on there given what he's done since he's come in. Farke's at the wheel man, he's doing his thing, Norwich City are back!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 01/05/2021 at 13:43, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I suspect that this coming season may well be something of a Shakespearean fulcrum for Norwich City.

Farke honours contracts, though there is no reason that performance-related clauses cannot work reciprocally. This would be a clean, honourable exit, though to Norwich’s detriment regardless. 
 Farke is hot at the moment - as is Webber - and Norwich as an entity will need to show more competitiveness to retain key staff across the board. 

Should Norwich be relegated again - even closely and unluckily - an exodus of key playing talent and Managerial talent would look inevitable. 

The fundamental issue is that the Champs-Premier gap is wider and more damaging than any linear, progressive ISO9001 model can handle (or be expected to handle). 

Top stars - playing or sporting - are intrinsically competitive. Glass ceilings are instinctively felt and rejected. Dreams and visions only carry as far as the door to reality. 

It can certainly be done - Norwich are far, far better structured and equipped than they were last time. 

Though - conversely - far, far more now rides on it. 

Parma

Put another way, we want them to stay but if we come back down and they get a better offer they’ll be off

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Put another way, we want them to stay but if we come back down and they get a better offer they’ll be off

I think you could say that about any manager / team who has just been promoted! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/05/2021 at 13:43, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I suspect that this coming season may well be something of a Shakespearean fulcrum for Norwich City.

Farke honours contracts, though there is no reason that performance-related clauses cannot work reciprocally. This would be a clean, honourable exit, though to Norwich’s detriment regardless. 
 Farke is hot at the moment - as is Webber - and Norwich as an entity will need to show more competitiveness to retain key staff across the board. 

Should Norwich be relegated again - even closely and unluckily - an exodus of key playing talent and Managerial talent would look inevitable. 

The fundamental issue is that the Champs-Premier gap is wider and more damaging than any linear, progressive ISO9001 model can handle (or be expected to handle). 

Top stars - playing or sporting - are intrinsically competitive. Glass ceilings are instinctively felt and rejected. Dreams and visions only carry as far as the door to reality. 

It can certainly be done - Norwich are far, far better structured and equipped than they were last time. 

Though - conversely - far, far more now rides on it. 

Parma

 

2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Suspect a somewhat different message will run through preparations for this Premier season, intrinsically linked to the points above. This season is indeed pivotal.

Tettey and Vrancic’s exits are somewhat demonstrative and are a classic and deliberate Webber message that ‘this time is different’. There will be no sentimentality, nothing other than maximum focus on staying up. 

Webber likes to play his cards hard - in either direction - as we have seen. 

Any professional - Webber and Farke included - will await the outcome of such a dynamic all-in strategy. Further evidence of the fulcrum nature of this season. 

Parma

Any references to ‘Little old Norwich’ may well be thoroughly put to bed this year. It will be even more all-or-nothing than the comparatively financially-aggressive investment in the promoted Alex Neil team, where every penny was thrown at the opportunity (not entirely unreasonably on the surface).

Whilst we may not suffer as dramatically financially from the consequences, the current highly inter-connected methodology currently employed requires all parts to work elegantly in unison. Key players (sporting, administrative and their agents)  will instinctively be sharp-eyed for the Apotheosis of the model itself. 

The echoes of the failed ESL project are everywhere currently. It is to be hoped that the future it foreshadowed is dystopian and not a very real demonstration of the glass-ceiling limits of modern-day football for Norwich without increased finance.

Parma 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

Any references to ‘Little old Norwich’ may well be thoroughly put to bed this year. It will be even more all-or-nothing than the comparatively financially-aggressive investment in the promoted Alex Neil team, where every penny was thrown at the opportunity (not entirely unreasonably on the surface).

Whilst we may not suffer as dramatically financially from the consequences, the current highly inter-connected methodology currently employed requires all parts to work elegantly in unison. Key players (sporting, administrative and their agents)  will instinctively be sharp-eyed for the Apotheosis of the model itself. 

The echoes of the failed ESL project are everywhere currently. It is to be hoped that the future it foreshadowed is dystopian and not a very real demonstration of the glass-ceiling limits of modern-day football for Norwich without increased finance.

Parma 

Do you challenge yourself to use the most convoluted, obscure, meandering, words and structure possible? 

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Wrathofthefarkely said:

Do you challenge yourself to use the most convoluted, obscure, meandering, words and structure possible? 

Parma's posts are a little verbose, sure, but they're a damn sight more educated than a lot of forum posts.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/05/2021 at 13:43, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I suspect that this coming season may well be something of a Shakespearean fulcrum for Norwich City.

Farke honours contracts, though there is no reason that performance-related clauses cannot work reciprocally. This would be a clean, honourable exit, though to Norwich’s detriment regardless. 
 Farke is hot at the moment - as is Webber - and Norwich as an entity will need to show more competitiveness to retain key staff across the board. 

Should Norwich be relegated again - even closely and unluckily - an exodus of key playing talent and Managerial talent would look inevitable. 

The fundamental issue is that the Champs-Premier gap is wider and more damaging than any linear, progressive ISO9001 model can handle (or be expected to handle). 

Top stars - playing or sporting - are intrinsically competitive. Glass ceilings are instinctively felt and rejected. Dreams and visions only carry as far as the door to reality. 

It can certainly be done - Norwich are far, far better structured and equipped than they were last time. 

Though - conversely - far, far more now rides on it. 

Parma

Sad as the day would be, you must be aware there'd be no exodus that wasn't planned for. The very nature of our success is driven by its adaptability in succession planning. I certainly believe we will see Kieran Scott replace Webber in the next 18 months. Would expect Farke to be off too, whether he keeps us up or not. As for the players, they leave Norwich City for big money. Then new ones come in. Its what we do, and as Kieran Scott is a recruitment mastermind, that isn't changing, Webber or not.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

Sad as the day would be, you must be aware there'd be no exodus that wasn't planned for. The very nature of our success is driven by its adaptability in succession planning. I certainly believe we will see Kieran Scott replace Webber in the next 18 months. Would expect Farke to be off too, whether he keeps us up or not. As for the players, they leave Norwich City for big money. Then new ones come in. Its what we do, and as Kieran Scott is a recruitment mastermind, that isn't changing, Webber or not.

Yes that is absolutely the counterpoint. I very much hope you are correct. It would indeed be truly exceptional body of work to have created something that endures long after key architects are gone. 

It would be excellent if alongside the remarkable development and progression that an education in the methodology has taken place throughout the building - including its upper echelons -  to ensure no regression to the mean and the ‘hands-off’ attitudes of the past.

Parma 

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone is guessing and no-one really knows what DF has in mind.  I suspect he is totally focussed on what he is doing now, rather than thinking about something in the future.  If I was him, I would want to leave my options open and decide at the end of next season what he wants to do. 

After all, he could actually love this club so much he wants to stay and develop it further on - and as long as he feels there is room for development that he will stay. If he feels he can't take us any further, then that would be the time to leave.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

Parma's posts are a little verbose, sure, but they're a damn sight more educated than a lot of forum posts.

I agree here FC. I used to wonder whether Parma was one of those 'stylistic 'accounts on this forum, more about enhancing a personality than being serious. I was wrong in even entertaining that idea. Parma's posts make for a real joy in reading because they provide an insight into a sharp football mind, one that is aligned to the psychology of the game too (don't mean to patronise you Parma should you read this).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Yes that is absolutely the counterpoint. I very much hope you are correct. It would indeed be truly exceptional body of work to have created something that endures long after key architects are gone. 

It would be excellent if alongside the remarkable development and progression that an education in the methodology has taken place throughout the building - including its upper echelons -  to ensure no regression to the mean and the ‘hands-off’ attitudes of the past.

Parma 

I hope I am too, I am well aware how much easier said than done my pontification on the future is. However, Stuart Webber has a lot of credit in the bank as far as being a man of his word goes. We know about his ambition, and we know that we probably have a ceiling within our model that he is talented enough to push through. I simply choose to believe that if Stuart Webber says he will leave the club in a better place than he found it (and I think Delia and MWJ have always wanted this, especially if you go back to the Auxerre trip) that there will be no regression to the mean in this case, as the club will not be passed to custodians who will trade our integrity for a fleeting chance at something more. As far as Farke goes, @lake district canary, it is nice to believe that he will continue to manage us in the Premier League. We know that he is happy here and proud of his work and his team, on and off the field. However, I also know Webber has made no secret of the fact that he believes Daniel Farke is a Champions League manager in terms of his potential- and just like we must trust Webber and Scott to replace Emi Buendia and Max Aarons, we must also trust them to replace Farke- Kieran Scott I believe becomes evermore Webber's right hand man, and is learning from him. Personally, were we to lose Farke and Webber to clubs beyond our reach, I would love to see Kieran Scott as sporting director and Valerien Ismail as his head coach. I have been so impressed with Barnsley since he took over there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I agree here FC. I used to wonder whether Parma was one of those 'stylistic 'accounts on this forum, more about enhancing a personality than being serious. I was wrong in even entertaining that idea. Parma's posts make for a real joy in reading because they provide an insight into a sharp football mind, one that is aligned to the psychology of the game too (don't mean to patronise you Parma should you read this).

I google things he says sometimes and I learn about football. You have to always be prepared to learn, however far you agree with what you are reading. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Suspect a somewhat different message will run through preparations for this Premier season, intrinsically linked to the points above. This season is indeed pivotal.

Tettey and Vrancic’s exits are somewhat demonstrative and are a classic and deliberate Webber message that ‘this time is different’. There will be no sentimentality, nothing other than maximum focus on staying up. 

Webber likes to play his cards hard - in either direction - as we have seen. 

Any professional - Webber and Farke included - will await the outcome of such a dynamic all-in strategy. Further evidence of the fulcrum nature of this season. 

Parma

We are already seeing Farke reject the notion that we need a 'miracle' as per our last attempt. Also we have seen Tim Krul, a very experienced head, say both that there is no reason why we can't 'do a Leeds' (strange to hear that phrase referring to a positive scenario) and that he has seen things from this team this season of a level he doesn't even see often when he looks out from his area at the Netherlands international team. I'm not saying we will be as good as Leeds (or the Netherlands) next season, but the rhetoric is certainly turning into one that fancies its chances in the top flight- and we do not employ people who say fanciful things.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fundamental issue is that the Champs-Premier gap is wider and more damaging than any linear, progressiveISO9001 model can handle (or be expected to handle). 
 

That paragraph nailed it for me, thanks Parma. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm. I agree it is a watershed season, but if we don't survive, Webber and Farke will actually have achieved very little in terms of leaving any legacy or even leaving us in a better place than when they arrived. If we get relegated again - however it happens, they will both be seen as flawed in achievement terms, and suited only to Championship success - two failures at EPL level probably wouldn't get either of them a third shot with a different club.

The next 12 months is the culmination of their plan - everything over the last 4 years has led here. Comfortable survival, and they can rightly claim total success and even that they've taken us as far as they can. They would move on with their careers at an all time high. But football is a fickle game, and anything less than that and perhaps the big jobs will have passed them by forever.

I expect Farke to stay on if I'm honest, to try to at least establish us in the EPL. Recruitment is very difficult when the head coach hasn't committed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, sgncfc said:

Hmmm. I agree it is a watershed season, but if we don't survive, Webber and Farke will actually have achieved very little in terms of leaving any legacy or even leaving us in a better place than when they arrived. If we get relegated again - however it happens, they will both be seen as flawed in achievement terms, and suited only to Championship success - two failures at EPL level probably wouldn't get either of them a third shot with a different club.

The next 12 months is the culmination of their plan - everything over the last 4 years has led here. Comfortable survival, and they can rightly claim total success and even that they've taken us as far as they can. They would move on with their careers at an all time high. But football is a fickle game, and anything less than that and perhaps the big jobs will have passed them by forever.

I expect Farke to stay on if I'm honest, to try to at least establish us in the EPL. Recruitment is very difficult when the head coach hasn't committed.

I agree with much of this but not the 'flawed in achievement terms' bit. Keeping a self-funded club in the Premier League is a very very tough job and I'm sure Farke was widely admired for what he was trying to do last time around. Of course, should he fail again, he'd probably slip a little down the list of the very top clubs; but I don't think you can judge his potential on what he has done with a financially limited Norwich City.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, FatCanary said:

I agree with much of this but not the 'flawed in achievement terms' bit. Keeping a self-funded club in the Premier League is a very very tough job and I'm sure Farke was widely admired for what he was trying to do last time around. Of course, should he fail again, he'd probably slip a little down the list of the very top clubs; but I don't think you can judge his potential on what he has done with a financially limited Norwich City.

Well that depends on who you read or listen to. Being in the EPL for 13 or 14 of the 20 teams is about survival, nothing more. And almost all of those clubs are or will be financially challenged. Prove he can run a tight, albeit a bigger ship and survive in the EPL and the world is his oyster. But two relegations from the EPL, with very little learned, and Farke will get pigeon-holed as a coach who can't keep a team up and the "Norwich way" will be equally pilloried despite its current high profile.

Steve Bruce is still employed because he keeps teams up. He has already pointed out (correctly) that playing the Norwich way gets you relegated. Allardyce got yet another job at West Brom because they thought if anyone could, he could. Sean Dyche re-invents Burnley year after year to keep them up. Roy Hodgson likewise, firstly at Fulham, now Palace.

Coaches like Graham Potter, Hassenhuttl and Farke (much like Wagner) will only progress if they prove themselves. For Farke, that means survival this coming season. Everyone likes Scott Parker - will another EPL team employ him? No chance. Will Chris Wilder get another shot at the EPL? Doubtful.

Farke, at the moment, is quite near the top jobs in Germany apparently. Not in England. But add a season of survival with Norwich and suddenly the bigger jobs here will open up for him. I can easily see him next at Wolves or Leeds, perhaps as a further stepping stone to something even bigger. But fail next season and that's all gone. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

Hmmm. I agree it is a watershed season, but if we don't survive, Webber and Farke will actually have achieved very little in terms of leaving any legacy or even leaving us in a better place than when they arrived. If we get relegated again - however it happens, they will both be seen as flawed in achievement terms, and suited only to Championship success - two failures at EPL level probably wouldn't get either of them a third shot with a different club.

The next 12 months is the culmination of their plan - everything over the last 4 years has led here. Comfortable survival, and they can rightly claim total success and even that they've taken us as far as they can. They would move on with their careers at an all time high. But football is a fickle game, and anything less than that and perhaps the big jobs will have passed them by forever.

I expect Farke to stay on if I'm honest, to try to at least establish us in the EPL. Recruitment is very difficult when the head coach hasn't committed.

I think that this statement is why - as @TIL 1010 has intimated previously - that there needs to be significant planning, involvement , skills, understanding, consistency of methodology and  pragmatism far beyond and above ‘just’ Webber and Farke for the benefits of their magnificent tenure to endure and be the ‘root not the fruit’ of our future ongoing success.

We are fans of a club. However much we are fans of Webber and Farke ‘letting the managers manage’ has mostly been disastrous to us as a club. Webber has shown why it doesn’t work, though - paradoxically - he may be the very kind of dynamic, single-minded, responsibility-shouldering individual who (perhaps unintentionally) bridges and amortises the ‘let the managers manage’ weakness only until he leaves. If he has truly changed the club, that flawed belief must have changed above him. 

As you say if Norwich succeed they go. If Norwich fail, they go (or they stay and the glass ceiling looks very thick indeed).

Pivotal for us - as fans - indeed. 

Parma 

@PurpleCanary

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Well that depends on who you read or listen to. Being in the EPL for 13 or 14 of the 20 teams is about survival, nothing more. And almost all of those clubs are or will be financially challenged. Prove he can run a tight, albeit a bigger ship and survive in the EPL and the world is his oyster. But two relegations from the EPL, with very little learned, and Farke will get pigeon-holed as a coach who can't keep a team up and the "Norwich way" will be equally pilloried despite its current high profile.

Steve Bruce is still employed because he keeps teams up. He has already pointed out (correctly) that playing the Norwich way gets you relegated. Allardyce got yet another job at West Brom because they thought if anyone could, he could. Sean Dyche re-invents Burnley year after year to keep them up. Roy Hodgson likewise, firstly at Fulham, now Palace.

Coaches like Graham Potter, Hassenhuttl and Farke (much like Wagner) will only progress if they prove themselves. For Farke, that means survival this coming season. Everyone likes Scott Parker - will another EPL team employ him? No chance. Will Chris Wilder get another shot at the EPL? Doubtful.

Farke, at the moment, is quite near the top jobs in Germany apparently. Not in England. But add a season of survival with Norwich and suddenly the bigger jobs here will open up for him. I can easily see him next at Wolves or Leeds, perhaps as a further stepping stone to something even bigger. But fail next season and that's all gone. 

 

I still think our circumstances are different to the 'financially challenged' clubs you mentioned. In my opinion this is probably an underestimation of how Farke is perceived. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree that playing 'the Norwich way' will get you relegated. If you play the 'Norwich' way with players who can't work in that system, then yes it will. Buying cheap players, playing kick and rush or lump it forward football might make you hard to beat, but it is never going to propel you up the table. Look at Leicester, they progressed into a very good footballing side, and the likes of Leeds, Villa, Spam have all done similar approaches. The Brighton's, Southamptons and Burnleys of the league are not good footballing sides, and as a result are where they deserve to be. Our biggest issue last time around was our sloppy defence, lack of spine in the side and trouble scoring at the top. We look to have rebalanced the side both tactically and in terms of personnel this time around, so can see us fairing better. When we had fit players and played well, we looked good but often ruined it by defence fragilities. Make it harder for other teams to score, and I think we can certainly compete 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

Hmmm. I agree it is a watershed season, but if we don't survive, Webber and Farke will actually have achieved very little in terms of leaving any legacy or even leaving us in a better place than when they arrived. If we get relegated again - however it happens, they will both be seen as flawed in achievement terms, and suited only to Championship success - two failures at EPL level probably wouldn't get either of them a third shot with a different club.

The next 12 months is the culmination of their plan - everything over the last 4 years has led here. Comfortable survival, and they can rightly claim total success and even that they've taken us as far as they can. They would move on with their careers at an all time high. But football is a fickle game, and anything less than that and perhaps the big jobs will have passed them by forever.

I expect Farke to stay on if I'm honest, to try to at least establish us in the EPL. Recruitment is very difficult when the head coach hasn't committed.

The bit in bold is precisely why it is a watershed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wrathofthefarkely said:

Do you challenge yourself to use the most convoluted, obscure, meandering, words and structure possible? 

Yeah, wtf is a "Shakespearian fulcrum".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...