50+1 at NCFC?

[TIL 1010 4,717]

13 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Now it's a rum'un old kettle of fish but the only reason D&M own over half the shares is because other fans didn't want them. It wasn't some great 'power grab'. The share issues had to be underwritten. 

Delia and MWJ became majority shareholders by ' accident ' and not desire as they underwrote the last share issue which it turned out did not attract sufficient interest from the fans. That took them to around the 53% mark.

The club has over 6,000 shareholders so it is fan owned.

The appointment to the board of Tom Smith who has a vote on decision making in the boardroom sits uncomfortably with some so what happens if an appointment is made from a man/woman acting on behalf of run of the mill fans if i may put it that crudely gives them a vote goodness knows.

Edited April 26, 2021 by TIL 1010

[nutty nigel 7,506]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

Delia and MWJ became majority shareholders by ' accident ' and not desire as they underwrote the last share issue which it turned out did not attract sufficient interest from the fans. That took them to around the 53% mark.

The club has over 6,000 shareholders so it is fan owned.

The appointment to the board of Tom Smith who has a vote on decision making in the boardroom sits uncomfortably with some so what happens if an appointment is made from a man/woman acting on behalf of run of the mill fans if i may put it that crudely gives them a vote goodness knows.

I have no idea about that. I personally doubt there is any fan who would like to be in that position. I dread to think what could have happened if such a thing had been in place previously.

 

[AJ 1,218]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

Worth noting the 51% rule in Germany is not about share ownership.but about voting rights as far as I'm aware?

Pretty much this, it's not so much about the ownership of the club but about keeping the fans at the core of the club, in terms of long term decision making. In effect, it stops things happening like this exact example with the ESL, do owners like the Glaziers etc. really care about the history of the club, other than its marketable successes? 

I think, for what it is worth, especially under the recent restructuring that our club has been very well run, and is pretty good at considering the fans perspective and keeping in touch with the fans. Over the years we've been able to vote on things like kits, and away from our powers things like ground expansions and expenditure have always been in keeping with the clubs core values. If every team was run like ours it would be a very different environment and football in general would be a better place. I'm very proud to support Norwich because they've set their stall out to define who we are and have stuck with it. It has earnt respect too, yes we came back down 2 years ago but people respected the way we played, the talent we've grown, the structure we have to be self sustained and if we can go one better and stay up this time, what an achievement that would be. Just looked at the ex-premier league graveyard of league 1 to see exactly the other side of the fence

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

Worth noting the 51% rule in Germany is not about share ownership.but about voting rights as far as I'm aware?

That may be true, but as far as NCFC is concerned Delia and Michael's 51 per cent shareholding (it used to be a higher percentage but then Foulger bought ten of thousands of new shares) equates to 51 per cent voting rights.

[essex canary 490]

Any thoughts on this as a way forward?

[FatCanary 249]

If it led to a fan vote on key decisions and not a case of a fan representative canvassing opinion to take to the board, i'd be all for it. Obviously you'd need a representative but as a sounding board, not as some pseudohierarchical 'head of the fans' thing.

[TIL 1010 4,717]

3 hours ago, essex canary said:

Any thoughts on this as a way forward?

Thinking that 20,000 fans pay a joining fee of £500 and subscribe £100 a year onwards is the stuff of fantasy.

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

On 25/04/2021 at 19:00, Norfolk Dan said:

25,000 fans. 

Extra £20 direct debit to own 51% of  thek club over 4 years. 

Raises £25m. 

Given how many subscribed to the fund raising for the training facility. I think this is well worth some action. 

 

There would be a lot more than 25000 interested in this (me for one)

[FatCanary 249]

39 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Thinking that 20,000 fans pay a joining fee of £500 and subscribe £100 a year onwards is the stuff of fantasy.

Could you expand on this please? 

[FenwayFrank 2,447]

2 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

Could you expand on this please? 

You know when I mentioned a sweepstake on who your first argument would be with ? 

[FatCanary 249]

5 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

You know when I mentioned a sweepstake on who your first argument would be with ? 

I'm just asking the kind gentleman to expand upon his point. 🙂

[TIL 1010 4,717]

28 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

Could you expand on this please? 

The last share issue which was underwritten by Delia and MWJ was underscribed which resulted in them increasing the shareholding by default.

[TIL 1010 4,717]

28 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

You know when I mentioned a sweepstake on who your first argument would be with ? 

Hilarious as always but i am sure our ' newbie ' who has already admitted to viewing this forum over a long period of time ( taking that at face value obviously ) will have worked you out for sure.

[FenwayFrank 2,447]

16 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Hilarious as always but i am sure our ' newbie ' who has already admitted to viewing this forum over a long period of time ( taking that at face value obviously ) will have worked you out for sure.

I’m sure he has which means I’ll get on fine with him. You on the other hand...

[TIL 1010 4,717]

4 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

I’m sure he has which means I’ll get on fine with him. You on the other hand...

Give your head a wobble as i have replied to whoever Fatcanary is which was in reference to something essex canary posted but of course you couldn't help yourself yet again with another snidey little one liner.

[FenwayFrank 2,447]

10 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Give your head a wobble as i have replied to whoever Fatcanary is which was in reference to something essex canary posted but of course you couldn't help yourself yet again with another snidey little one liner.

Not that you ever do anything like that, Mr Perfect Poster 😜

[TIL 1010 4,717]

8 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Not that you ever do anything like that, Mr Perfect Poster 😜

There was me thinking that as far as this thread was concerned up until you popped up i had made on topic posts but i appear to be struggling looking for yours unless of course i have missed them ?

Leave you to it as i am waiting for FatCanary and essex canary to reply to what i posted.

[Norfolk Dan 308]

1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

There would be a lot more than 25000 interested in this (me for one)

If we reference back to the Canary Bond. That was over subscribed. Yes a good reward was on offer of 25% uplift if I recall rightly. 

But with that in mind. I really feel this is possible. A long time ago I posted about following the Barcelona way, in fans paying as members of the club, like a debenture. 

We are in a place, as a club, where if this can we well discussed and add a tot of intelligence, smart thinking, we could package something that would get the attention of the PTB. 

[essex canary 490]

2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Thinking that 20,000 fans pay a joining fee of £500 and subscribe £100 a year onwards is the stuff of fantasy.

It's the price of creating the model with fans control. The price for owning a piece of the Club. There maybe some modest scope for giving fans discount relative to non-members.

Please note on a previous occasion you had no problem with a fan owning 1,000 shares still. being required to pay the full season ticket price. Numerous other fans with shareholdings in the hundreds are in the same position.

[Greavsy 2,412]

50 minutes ago, Norfolk Dan said:

If we reference back to the Canary Bond. That was over subscribed. 

Talk of the bond has reminded me of the new shirt....... 

[TIL 1010 4,717]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

It's the price of creating the model with fans control. The price for owning a piece of the Club. There maybe some modest scope for giving fans discount relative to non-members.

Please note on a previous occasion you had no problem with a fan owning 1,000 shares still. being required to pay the full season ticket price. Numerous other fans with shareholdings in the hundreds are in the same position.

You have certainly moved well away from the topic of fan ownership as outlined in your letter to Archant copied onto this thread. The question of share ownership relating to associate directors and season tickets for life transferable upon death is a totally different matter.

Do you think that the numbers mentioned by you are achievable  i.e. 20,000 joining at £500 followed by further subscriptions of £100 per year ?

Edited April 27, 2021 by TIL 1010

[nutty nigel 7,506]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

It's the price of creating the model with fans control. The price for owning a piece of the Club. There maybe some modest scope for giving fans discount relative to non-members.

Please note on a previous occasion you had no problem with a fan owning 1,000 shares still. being required to pay the full season ticket price. Numerous other fans with shareholdings in the hundreds are in the same position.

I don't know how many fans you'll find who genuinely want to control our club. It's one thing pontificating on here about it but parting with the readies is another kettle of fish entirely. Good luck, you'll need it.

I guess it's not fashionable anymore but I just want to be a supporter. And sometimes that can be hard enough...

[FatCanary 249]

4 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

The last share issue which was underwritten by Delia and MWJ was underscribed which resulted in them increasing the shareholding by default.

I feel like there is a lot more faith in the Club from the vast majority of fans since the arrival of Webber et al. Perhaps not in your eyes?

[FatCanary 249]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

I don't know how many fans you'll find who genuinely want to control our club. It's one thing pontificating on here about it but parting with the readies is another kettle of fish entirely. Good luck, you'll need it.

I guess it's not fashionable anymore but I just want to be a supporter. And sometimes that can be hard enough...

Personally I just like the idea. How tangible it is ultimately has too many variables, but it isn't honestly needed if you continue to operate with morality and transparency as I believe we do. I don't care about nepotism, I just care that the club is run well. If Tom Smith can continue that good work, then I will be confident we will continue to grow.

[essex canary 490]

12 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Thinking that 20,000 fans pay a joining fee of £500 and subscribe £100 a year onwards is the stuff of fantasy.

OK. Let's flesh it out a little bit more.

Season Ticket holders entry fee £500, annual charge £100, season ticket discount £130. Basically invest £500 up front for £30 ongoing discount. All other members simply pay £500 plus £100 with discounts at club discretion.

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,717]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

OK. Let's flesh it out a little bit more.

Season Ticket holders entry fee £500, annual charge £100, season ticket discount £130. Basically invest £500 up front for £30 ongoing discount. All other members simply pay £500 plus £100 with discounts at club discretion.

 

 

And 20,000 will join such a scheme which is the figure you quoted in your letter to Archant ?

[FatCanary 249]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

And 20,000 will join such a scheme which is the figure you quoted in your letter to Archant ?

I can buy this doubt on the basis of the pandemic affecting finances; what I don't necessarily buy into is what seems to be inherent cynicism towards the same fans who have done such magnificent things of late such as the Canaries Bond.

[essex canary 490]

4 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

And 20,000 will join such a scheme which is the figure you quoted in your letter to Archant ?

I would suggest potential for people to buy multiples. For example a South Stand Commercial seat on the basis outlined without further payment would require the individual to buy 50 units.

In terms of short term finance the main idea would be to get the much trumpeted foreign legion to make a contribution to club finances. All the locals would then follow as they wouldn't want to be seen to be denied and they would qualify for a season ticket discount.

No other adult memberships. All units inheritable and transferable subject to a maximum cap of 100 units per individual.

Basically the NCFC history of fan finance this century has been 'short term invest for a quick buck, long term invest be taken for a mug.' This is the middle way.

Ben can sell.

 

 

 

 

[Greavsy 2,412]

30 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I would suggest potential for people to buy multiples. For example a South Stand Commercial seat on the basis outlined without further payment would require the individual to buy 50 units.

In terms of short term finance the main idea would be to get the much trumpeted foreign legion to make a contribution to club finances. All the locals would then follow as they wouldn't want to be seen to be denied and they would qualify for a season ticket discount.

No other adult memberships. All units inheritable and transferable subject to a maximum cap of 100 units per individual.

Basically the NCFC history of fan finance this century has been 'short term invest for a quick buck, long term invest be taken for a mug.' This is the middle way.

Ben can sell.

 

 

 

 

Sounds a bit elitist to me. 

Reminds me of the away memberships! 

[essex canary 490]

3 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Sounds a bit elitist to me. 

Reminds me of the away memberships! 

If you buy a Rolls Royce, you expect a Rolls Royce. If you buy a Mini, you expect a Mini.

The away members scheme is like those who live a Rolls Royce lifestyle charging extra for those who use the bus.

Under the 2002 share offer you could buy a BMW today, die tomorrow, they keep the proceeds without, unlike the bondholders, even as much as a thank you.