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dylanisabaddog

Oliver Dowden speech

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Are you people listening to this? My God, it's a declaration of war. The American owners listening will have taken a deep breath.

 

I hope they mean it. I think they can smell votes

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Just been watching, pleasing to see the Government are going to get involved, not just in this matter but a total reform on the game as a whole. 

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Issue is that this is a FIFA/UEFA wide issue that should have been sorted years ago. This has been circling around the plug hole for so long it was always likely that something like a financial downfall in European football of some sort would see these absolute corpse feeders to swoop down on. That being the pandemic.

The writing was on the wall earlier in the season when the EFL had the audacity to ask for financial help from the FA and Premier League and the response was effectively "only if you bend over first". That response was primarily created by the so called top 6 clubs and again, saw huge opposition from other teams. In that case they wanted total control of TV rights for the Premier League AND the EFL.

Now we have seen this proposal, the % part of that proposal looks even poorer. They always planned to have a breakaway league.

If I were the government I would put in place some pretty basic steps at least initially. The protected branding for products should be extended to sports clubs. No longer can you take a football club, play all of your home games globetrotting and still have your name protected as, for example, Manchester United. You are no longer playing home games in Manchester, therefore you are not uniting anything to do with Manchester and therefore any other side in or around Manchester can take ownership of the name. It would also stop silly things like MK 'Dons' from happening again.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, chicken said:

Issue is that this is a FIFA/UEFA wide issue that should have been sorted years ago. This has been circling around the plug hole for so long it was always likely that something like a financial downfall in European football of some sort would see these absolute corpse feeders to swoop down on. That being the pandemic.

The writing was on the wall earlier in the season when the EFL had the audacity to ask for financial help from the FA and Premier League and the response was effectively "only if you bend over first". That response was primarily created by the so called top 6 clubs and again, saw huge opposition from other teams. In that case they wanted total control of TV rights for the Premier League AND the EFL.

Now we have seen this proposal, the % part of that proposal looks even poorer. They always planned to have a breakaway league.

If I were the government I would put in place some pretty basic steps at least initially. The protected branding for products should be extended to sports clubs. No longer can you take a football club, play all of your home games globetrotting and still have your name protected as, for example, Manchester United. You are no longer playing home games in Manchester, therefore you are not uniting anything to do with Manchester and therefore any other side in or around Manchester can take ownership of the name. It would also stop silly things like MK 'Dons' from happening again.

Another simple answer from a government point of view is to refuse police presence at these games so they can’t go ahead or make  the clubs quarantine like everyone else when returning to the UK.

From the start though I’ve felt that this is being used as leverage against UEFA for the revamped Champions League. It’s a huge coincidence that 2 days after those clubs were at a UEFA meeting they announce this. If it’s not the clubs involved are in complete denial because their statement said this would be a midweek competition with the clubs involved participating in their domestic leagues on weekends. No one is going to let that happen so that’s a huge loss of revenue that needs to be made up to hold a competition only less than 20 people in the world actually want.

Edited by seanthecanary

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The govt can easily bring in regulations preventing English clubs joining this league - but I doubt it’ll come to that as the clubs will surely back down.

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9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

The govt can easily bring in regulations preventing English clubs joining this league - but I doubt it’ll come to that as the clubs will surely back down.

Of course they will, it’s a bluff, nothing more. The whole thing has no backing except from the owners of the clubs involved. No support from football authorities, no support from government and no support from their own fans. If it were in any doubt, they’ve just revealed their true intentions of why they own football clubs. They have no love for the clubs they own or the game in general. It’s about making money, nothing else. Fans can no longer have any delusions about their “stinking rich owners” and I’ll take a fan owning my club over any of these people.

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This is precisely why we are lucky to have the owners we do.

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22 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

From the start though I’ve felt that this is being used as leverage against UEFA for the revamped Champions League. It’s a huge coincidence that 2 days after those clubs were at a UEFA meeting they announce this. 

That's what I initially thought too, but Woodward and Agnelli have resigned from the ECA, which makes me think they mean it.

 

14 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

The govt can easily bring in regulations preventing English clubs joining this league - but I doubt it’ll come to that as the clubs will surely back down.

They could conceivably deny work permits for any non-British players.

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1 minute ago, seanthecanary said:

Of course they will, it’s a bluff, nothing more. The whole thing has no backing except from the owners of the clubs involved. No support from football authorities, no support from government and no support from their own fans. If it were in any doubt, they’ve just revealed their true intentions of why they own football clubs. They have no love for the clubs they own or the game in general. It’s about making money, nothing else. Fans can no longer have any delusions about their “stinking rich owners” and I’ll take a fan owning my club over any of these people.

This is no bluff - you don’t appoint legal teams preparing cases if you are just bluffing. The clubs mean it - although the strength of reaction might have caught them slightly by surprise I expect they will have been prepared for most of it. The Government being so strong is probably the most unexpected thing though.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

This is no bluff - you don’t appoint legal teams preparing cases if you are just bluffing. The clubs mean it - although the strength of reaction might have caught them slightly by surprise I expect they will have been prepared for most of it. The Government being so strong is probably the most unexpected thing though.

If it’s not a bluff then it’s a huge balls up on those clubs part. The statement released said that this Super League would be a midweek competition with the clubs competing domestically on weekends. No one in football is going to allow that to happen so do the finances add up for those English clubs without the TV money from the Premier League? Will a 20 team league provide more finances than the Premier League and Champions League combined? Doubtful considering it’s 2 groups of 10 then a knockout phase. Football fans have already voted with their wallets this season with the PPV matches and considering how unpopular this whole thing is, who is going to pay to watch it?

Edited by seanthecanary

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16 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

 The Government being so strong is probably the most unexpected thing though.

If nothing else, the last few years should have taught us that the Government can do pretty much as it pleases.

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43 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

If it’s not a bluff then it’s a huge balls up on those clubs part. The statement released said that this Super League would be a midweek competition with the clubs competing domestically on weekends. No one in football is going to allow that to happen so do the finances add up for those English clubs without the TV money from the Premier League? Will a 12 team league provide more finances than the Premier League and Champions League combined? Doubtful. Football fans have already voted with their wallets this season with the PPV matches and considering how unpopular this whole thing is, who is going to pay to watch it?

How many premier league games take place on weekends, how many  games are there midweek. Would Sky not be allowed to alter the dates of games for these six teams.

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For once the public are genuinely angry about something rather than being persuaded to be angry about something, so the government can see it would be a massive vote loser to give this scheme any sign of a thumbs up.

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1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

This is precisely why we are lucky to have the owners we do.

If I could give this 1000 likes I would. We are the best run club in the country.

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Further to my initial comment, this is another advantage of our ownership: the owners are grounded in the community of which they are part. Unlike the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United, two clubs taken over that ultimately resulted in smaller clubs being born out of the ashes of their takeovers (FC United is more famous, but there's also AFC Liverpool too) resulting in two smaller clubs on a much more organic, fan-friendly and indeed fan-owned/supported model, we have a club that is thoroughly rooted in Norwich.

You can carry out all the PR you like, throw in as much cash for all the all-star signings you like, but this shows that all some owners want to do is to exploit fan fervour for profit using the club, and indeed our loyalties, as a vehicle.

Of course, there is a cogent argument that we've flirted with financial disaster a couple of times on Delia's watch. At the same time, she's also shown the sense to appoint people with more of an idea of football than her, and accepted ideas which were then implemented into starting the model with Webber/Farke at the helm along with generally leaving them to their devices and supporting where she could.

In doing so, we have a distinct identity of our own beyond our style of football that we play, which is an appealing style in its own right. Money can't buy that.

At most it buys the loyalties of mercenaries and the most fleeting of glories.

We've got more than that. We're lucky to be in that position.

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2 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

The Government being so strong is probably the most unexpected thing though.

I expect Baroness Karen Brady has had more than a few words.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Further to my initial comment, this is another advantage of our ownership: the owners are grounded in the community of which they are part. Unlike the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United, two clubs taken over that ultimately resulted in smaller clubs being born out of the ashes of their takeovers (FC United is more famous, but there's also AFC Liverpool too) resulting in two smaller clubs on a much more organic, fan-friendly and indeed fan-owned/supported model, we have a club that is thoroughly rooted in Norwich.

It goes to show that these clubs really aren’t the heart of a community anymore. That must be particularly painful for Liverpool fans to accept. There was a certain extra bond forged from grief between the club and fans after Hillsborough. The club really did support those effected and they continued to do so.

I’m glad we have fans owning our club because they get what it means to us. They have got things right and they have got things very wrong but I would never doubt their motivation.

Edited by seanthecanary

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Posted (edited)

Sometimes it’s good to have populists in power I guess.

Edit: Just watched his speech, really surprised how strong his wording was. Literally said the Government will do anything and everything in its power to stop this happening, hugely condemning of the owners of the 6 clubs and he’s launched early a fan lead review of football. 

Edited by Monty13
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2 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

This is no bluff - you don’t appoint legal teams preparing cases if you are just bluffing. The clubs mean it - although the strength of reaction might have caught them slightly by surprise I expect they will have been prepared for most of it. The Government being so strong is probably the most unexpected thing though.

No, this isn’t a bluff. What is not clear to me is actually what the government could do to stop this.

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13 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

No, this isn’t a bluff. What is not clear to me is actually what the government could do to stop this.

Plenty.

They can drop anything favourable they do for Premier League teams. If players are banned from representing their nations they could argue they do not meet the criteria for a work permit. That's just for starters.

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Just now, chicken said:

Plenty.

They can drop anything favourable they do for Premier League teams. If players are banned from representing their nations they could argue they do not meet the criteria for a work permit. That's just for starters.

Exactly and as I said earlier, they can refuse to supply policing and paramedics which are required to hold such events. They can also insist that players at those clubs now have to abide to the ten days quarantine they currently are exempt from when returning from European fixtures. There is no doubt more.

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26 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

Exactly and as I said earlier, they can refuse to supply policing and paramedics which are required to hold such events. They can also insist that players at those clubs now have to abide to the ten days quarantine they currently are exempt from when returning from European fixtures. There is no doubt more.

Taxation is another big thing they could consider.

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If the Govt has any balls about it they will introduce legislation so that all English clubs are 51% owned buy the supporters themselves, exactly like the German model.

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3 minutes ago, duke63 said:

If the Govt has any balls about it they will introduce legislation so that all English clubs are 51% owned buy the supporters themselves, exactly like the German model.

I don't know if it's possible but can they force them all to be self funded? If they could we might see a drop in the ridiculous rise there's been in wages and transfer fees over the past 25 years

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No idea but you could make it a condition of being allowed to play in the PL and EFL.

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3 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

A European super league with no German clubs in it is going to look pretty stupid

Like having a world series for just US/Canadian teams...

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How will it be a ‘super league’ without the worlds best players anyway?

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