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Big clubs possible move could ‘end football as we know it'

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So liverpool man c man u Tottenham arsenal Chelsea replaced by city Watford brentford Barnsley Bournemouth and Swansea. Lots of real fans Scottish fishing industry hit by losses of prawn sales in the sandwiches. Ordinary people can get into games not the super rich. The twists and turns of the super championship or the rich 6 winning most games. 

Expel them now.

Then the players can sue for breach of contract and lots of top players will be available for free.

Football is an allegory of life and this may be the beginning of awareness that its neo liberal policies which help the rich and hit the poor.

Rant over.

 

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3 minutes ago, Haus said:

Teams will move, like the American Sports model.  

 

Beijing Arsenal or New York Red Devils or something 

I think the radio silence from all the English owners shows how little they care about the fans that have turned up week in, week out for year upon year. It’s been nearly 48 hours since they dropped a bomb and have felt no need or desire to justify or explain it to their own supporters. Man Utd and Liverpool also quite quite happy to throw their managers and players under the bus while the owners hide across the Atlantic 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Besthorpe-48 said:

So liverpool man c man u Tottenham arsenal Chelsea replaced by city Watford brentford Barnsley Bournemouth and Swansea. Lots of real fans Scottish fishing industry hit by losses of prawn sales in the sandwiches. Ordinary people can get into games not the super rich. The twists and turns of the super championship or the rich 6 winning most games. 

Expel them now.

Then the players can sue for breach of contract and lots of top players will be available for free.

Football is an allegory of life and this may be the beginning of awareness that its neo liberal policies which help the rich and hit the poor.

Rant over.

 

Yes wonder how all those young and upcoming U21 England players think about this - want to play for ESL punch bag Tottenham (or is that the Tiananmen Tigers) i.e.  Skipp ?

Edited by Yellow Fever

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6 minutes ago, king canary said:

Again, I'm not sure that will happen. Maybe but if it does it would benefit the left behind teams.

I think this is the natural conclusion of a total breakaway competition. Maybe not in 5, 10 or 20 years but eventually.

And I can only see these proposals working as stated if it was a breakaway competition. It wouldn’t be in the domestic leagues interest to have these financial behemoths stay in. Yes all would have to tighten belts (as Norwich have done) but that’s how all should be doing to be financially responsible. 

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Think Pep just summed this all up well at his press conference. Firstly that the people in charge need to come out and explain themselves. He also said that a league where teams can’t get relegated etc “isn’t sport”

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3 minutes ago, WD40 said:

I think this is the natural conclusion of a total breakaway competition. Maybe not in 5, 10 or 20 years but eventually.

And I can only see these proposals working as stated if it was a breakaway competition. It wouldn’t be in the domestic leagues interest to have these financial behemoths stay in. Yes all would have to tighten belts (as Norwich have done) but that’s how all should be doing to be financially responsible. 

Yes - I think the English 6 would rapidly find themselves 'stateless' or without a secure base or foundation at home.

Liverpool supporters would migrate to Everton etc. 

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13 minutes ago, Besthorpe-48 said:

So liverpool man c man u Tottenham arsenal Chelsea replaced by city Watford brentford Barnsley Bournemouth and Swansea. Lots of real fans Scottish fishing industry hit by losses of prawn sales in the sandwiches. Ordinary people can get into games not the super rich. The twists and turns of the super championship or the rich 6 winning most games. 

Expel them now.

Then the players can sue for breach of contract and lots of top players will be available for free.

Football is an allegory of life and this may be the beginning of awareness that its neo liberal policies which help the rich and hit the poor.

Rant over.

 

Could be an opportunity to get the top 6 Scottish teams in, including Rangers and Celtic. Although not sure the rest of the Scots would like that!

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I haven't read all 17 pages so I may be repeating people, but I don't really see what all the fuss is about. This has been inevitable since the first TV contract and the escalation of player wages began. Protecting FIFA and UEFA and even the FA is of no interest to me - they have all been stitching fans up for the last 30 years.

Let the big 6 go to their ESL, expel them from the English and European football structure; promote some Championship teams to replace them, likewise down the leagues and put 6 new teams in the National League, all of which should be reincarnations of the ones who have left so that their supporters have someone to follow. Liverpool City; Manchester Rovers; Manchester Town; Highbury; Tottenham United; Chelsea City, whatever they need to be.

They can all ground share to begin with  and hopefully enough of their proper supporters would move across to help them progress through the leagues.

The ESL may well be successful based on massive Asian and US TV audiences and half-empty stadiums, but if SKY and BT hold their nerve to keep the English game supported, leaving the ESL to Amazon and Netflix it could all work perfectly well.

Most of the ESL members are public companies and their boards and owners responsibility is to shareholders not supporters - that may not be a popular thing but that's why their share prices all went up yesterday.

 

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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - I think the English 6 would rapidly find themselves 'stateless' or without a secure base or foundation at home.

Liverpool supporters would migrate to Everton etc. 

Not sure about that. Could you honestly migrate to ipswich?

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57 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Will be very sad if having gotten through Covid and been promoted that there aren't any matches next season. If both parties dig their heels in, government gets involved and legal proceedings begin, I really can't see this being sorted by August!

Don't panic. The new league isn't scheduled to start until 2024.

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1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Not sure about that. Could you honestly migrate to ipswich?

No, but I would go to Kings Lynn.  I would guess that one or two lower league clubs are rubbing their hands with glee

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3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Not sure about that. Could you honestly migrate to ipswich?

If we had seriously lost our own team, kicked in the b * * lls then people do move. The question is actually far more pertinent the other way round!

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19 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Don't panic. The new league isn't scheduled to start until 2024.

It's next summer isn't it?  Are you not talking about the changes to the Champions League?

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30 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Not sure about that. Could you honestly migrate to ipswich?

What about half way?

We could become Dissunited😀

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57 minutes ago, WD40 said:

I think this is the natural conclusion of a total breakaway competition. Maybe not in 5, 10 or 20 years but eventually.

And I can only see these proposals working as stated if it was a breakaway competition. It wouldn’t be in the domestic leagues interest to have these financial behemoths stay in. Yes all would have to tighten belts (as Norwich have done) but that’s how all should be doing to be financially responsible. 

I suppose it may happen if the league became a massive success. But generally in America sports franchises move for 1 of 2 reasons.

1- they are in an unfashionable location where they struggle to maximise revenue (St Louis moving to LA for instance)

2- they can't convince the local government to build them a stadium (something that doesn't happen in Europe generally anyway).

Looking at the six English clubs, I don't see a move to a more glamourous location happening. Maybe Chelsea might continue to try and move to a different part of London. And as much as they try to Americanise things I can't see local authorities or the UK government agreeing to build massive sports stadiums for these teams. 

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46 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

If we had seriously lost our own team, kicked in the b * * lls then people do move. The question is actually far more pertinent the other way round!

People I know who support Man Utd are talking about following Bolton

A Spurs fan I know is finding a non league team to watch.  

I think this'll happen, just not Liverpool to Everton.  

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I suppose it may happen if the league became a massive success. But generally in America sports franchises move for 1 of 2 reasons.

1- they are in an unfashionable location where they struggle to maximise revenue (St Louis moving to LA for instance)

2- they can't convince the local government to build them a stadium (something that doesn't happen in Europe generally anyway).

Looking at the six English clubs, I don't see a move to a more glamourous location happening. Maybe Chelsea might continue to try and move to a different part of London. And as much as they try to Americanise things I can't see local authorities or the UK government agreeing to build massive sports stadiums for these teams. 

Teams moved to LA as it was the second biggest market in the US and didn't have a team.  The Rams were profitable and so were the Chargers.   There was talk for years about how it must have an NFL team and just which one would it be.

If this new league kicks off and has minimal support here and 60 percent of revenue comes from China for example, I can see a team moving. 

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1 minute ago, Haus said:

People I know who support Man Utd are talking about following Bolton

A Spurs fan I know is finding a non league team to watch.  

I think this'll happen, just not Liverpool to Everton.  

not arguing it - but younger supporters (as yet of no fixed abode) will look to Everton.  Yes us oldies would look elsewhere 😉

 

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Anyone who thinks that local fans' voices and protests will make any difference are, I fear, mistaken. It is pretty obvious that these owners intend to try to create a "brand" for the huge overseas markets rather than "sport" for the local communities which founded these clubs. The clubs have been bought in order only to leverage the brand and the "customer base" dwarf the "fan base". Customers will tune in for entertainment, in competition with the latest Marvel film perhaps. Fans tune in because they care. The sacrifice of a small revenue stream from the few in favour of a larger revenue stream form the many. The plastics, the ones who don't understand the reason that football has grown large is because of the very tribalism, the passion and the unpredictability. The joys of success and the despair of failure. This is not the future model for these brands, their target market base does not really give a stuff about the loss of community values etc they want something to watch while chomping on beer and pretzels. They feel no emotional engagement. The ESL may well be a great success but those "clubs" will no longer exist as such, they will have become disposable TV schedule filler brands, the players mere actors in a carefully choreographed football themed ballet.

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1 minute ago, Haus said:

Teams moved to LA as it was the second biggest market in the US and didn't have a team.  The Rams were profitable and so were the Chargers.   There was talk for years about how it must have an NFL team and just which one would it be.

If this new league kicks off and has minimal support here and 60 percent of revenue comes from China for example, I can see a team moving. 

Yeah but Kronke clearly wants to Rams to be more profitable so LA is the place to go, especially as they have some history in the area. 

The Chargers moving was just dumb though- no idea why they thought it was a good idea. 

I agree but I find the minimal support thing to be a big 'if.' I've got friends who support Arsenal and Spurs and as much as they don't support the idea I'm not sure they will just walk away from their clubs either.

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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

not arguing it - but younger supporters (as yet of no fixed abode) will look to Everton.  Yes us oldies would look elsewhere 😉

 

Tranmere perhaps?

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57 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

No, but I would go to Kings Lynn.  I would guess that one or two lower league clubs are rubbing their hands with glee

Not for me Dylan. I go to support Norwich. Not to watch football and prefer it if my team win. 

No Norwich and I'm done with it.

I do know I'm in the minority but that's me.

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4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Not for me Dylan. I go to support Norwich. Not to watch football and prefer it if my team win. 

No Norwich and I'm done with it.

I do know I'm in the minority but that's me.

There's  at least two of us Nutty.

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The Super league chairman Perez is saying on TV that they cannot get banned from the champions league as the law protects them, it’s impossible and that matches may be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger audiences. What a safe pair of hands in which to place the beautiful game! 

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1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

I haven't read all 17 pages so I may be repeating people, but I don't really see what all the fuss is about. This has been inevitable since the first TV contract and the escalation of player wages began. Protecting FIFA and UEFA and even the FA is of no interest to me - they have all been stitching fans up for the last 30 years.

Let the big 6 go to their ESL, expel them from the English and European football structure; promote some Championship teams to replace them, likewise down the leagues and put 6 new teams in the National League, all of which should be reincarnations of the ones who have left so that their supporters have someone to follow. Liverpool City; Manchester Rovers; Manchester Town; Highbury; Tottenham United; Chelsea City, whatever they need to be.

They can all ground share to begin with  and hopefully enough of their proper supporters would move across to help them progress through the leagues.

The ESL may well be successful based on massive Asian and US TV audiences and half-empty stadiums, but if SKY and BT hold their nerve to keep the English game supported, leaving the ESL to Amazon and Netflix it could all work perfectly well.

Most of the ESL members are public companies and their boards and owners responsibility is to shareholders not supporters - that may not be a popular thing but that's why their share prices all went up yesterday.

 

I half agree with this. This is not the oft-feared sealing off of the EPL. There will still be promotion and relegation all the way through the English pyramid, and prizes, in the form of entry to the Champions League and the Europa Cup, for teams that do well in the Premier League.

What it does do, though, is introduce the notion of a sealed-off competition, albeit not in a league, let alone in a league that is part a pyramid, and only in what is a rival to an existing cup competition, which itself is semi-sealed already.

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27 minutes ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

The Super league chairman Perez is saying on TV that they cannot get banned from the champions league as the law protects them, it’s impossible and that matches may be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger audiences. What a safe pair of hands in which to place the beautiful game! 

It’s also pathetic to see the President of one the richest, most powerful clubs in the world pleading poverty. I don’t see that anyone has any sympathy for them. There are crack addicts that manage their finances better than Real.

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7 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

This is clearly going to be a matter for the courts to decide. I've just heard a European football expert on 5 Live say that the best thing the other clubs and interested parties can do now is to refuse to talk to the 12 altogether. They think they have power but in reality they don't. The suggestion was that the remaining 14 clubs resign from the Premier League immediately and rejoin the Football League. That would result in short term losses and financial adjustments to wages but long term it would give the rest of us security and put the matter to rest.

I see it as the best thing ever to happen to domestic football. I wouldn't say I don't care about the fans of the big 6 but this is their problem not ours. If they don't like it we can give them some guidance as to how to get rid of an unwelcome owner.

I would love this to happen, as you say it would be a fantastic boost to domestic football but I would have thought in the current situation it is more likely, and potentially much easier, for the 14 to chuck the 6 out of the Premier League and top it back up with no relegation this year and extra promotions.

Personally I would prefer your solution but it seems much more disruptive especially to the existing contracts, both TV and the players. Like you I have a small amount of sympathy for the real supporters of the 6 (not sure what proportion of their 'fans' that covers 😀) but whatever the outcome, the problems are of their own clubs' making so hopefully they will take it out on their owners.

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1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

I haven't read all 17 pages so I may be repeating people, but I don't really see what all the fuss is about. This has been inevitable since the first TV contract and the escalation of player wages began. Protecting FIFA and UEFA and even the FA is of no interest to me - they have all been stitching fans up for the last 30 years.

Let the big 6 go to their ESL, expel them from the English and European football structure; promote some Championship teams to replace them, likewise down the leagues and put 6 new teams in the National League, all of which should be reincarnations of the ones who have left so that their supporters have someone to follow. Liverpool City; Manchester Rovers; Manchester Town; Highbury; Tottenham United; Chelsea City, whatever they need to be.

They can all ground share to begin with  and hopefully enough of their proper supporters would move across to help them progress through the leagues.

The ESL may well be successful based on massive Asian and US TV audiences and half-empty stadiums, but if SKY and BT hold their nerve to keep the English game supported, leaving the ESL to Amazon and Netflix it could all work perfectly well.

Most of the ESL members are public companies and their boards and owners responsibility is to shareholders not supporters - that may not be a popular thing but that's why their share prices all went up yesterday.

 

This was something I was wondering as well. Surely if the current funders of competitions in England get on the side of the government, fans, UEFA etc and refuse to pay the clubs in the ESL any TV rights there won't be any financial loss to the other teams? It would just be the clubs in the ESL suffering from loss of fans, players, and competitions to compete in (if the threats UEFA are making do take place)

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6 minutes ago, HazzaJet said:

This was something I was wondering as well. Surely if the current funders of competitions in England get on the side of the government, fans, UEFA etc and refuse to pay the clubs in the ESL any TV rights there won't be any financial loss to the other teams? It would just be the clubs in the ESL suffering from loss of fans, players, and competitions to compete in (if the threats UEFA are making do take place)

It really depends on whether Sky and BT would want to renegotiate their deals with the PL and CL without the rebel clubs. I guess it would depend on viewing figures and subscription numbers. It seems that Sky especially have been blindsided by this though and the fact they are allowing their presenters, reporters and pundits let rip over it suggests they’ve had no contact about TV deals etc. 

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