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Uncle Fred

Ownership - it’s time for the debate

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Me and my daughter loved that season. We went to Millwall for the opening game, got beat 4-0, but we knew then the team was better than the previous season. We won the next game against man Citeh when Libra scored that goal. We went away a lot that season. The run in was amazing, smash and grab at Bradford before thousands going to Barnsley. Then the Stockport game and waiting to see if we made the play offs. Then Wolves stuffing wolves and going to molyneux holding out in the second leg. It ended disappointingly at Cardiff against Brum but what a day! Went with my son and daughter. Half Norfolk went to Wales.

Oh and the fa cup against Chelsea. We met Claudio Ranieri before the game when we went for the replay. He told me we should have won Saturday's game (we would have but for Cuddicini) but we'd lose tonight. He was right but through the disappointment I'm still glad I was there. Zola's goal was quite something to have seen. 

You don't share many memories Midlands. Just we lost to Birmingham. Do you have memories?

Yeah, great season Eddie, I was a massive fan of Worthy and that was another season in the second tier that I will remember with far more affection than some of our Premier League escapades.

Was at the Chelsea game too for that game. Mate worked at Chelsea and sorted me a ticket but I was stuck in with all the Chelsea fans if I recall correctly. What I do remember is being in a prime place right near the goal to see that Zola wonder goal. See Todd producing those kind of back heel flicks every game now albeit in a passing movement so I prefer his for some reason ha ha. Before the game, my mate John introduced me to young John Terry. He was wearing the most horrific brown suit you’ve ever seen in your life. This abomination cost him 4 grand or something. It looked like something that would have been worn in the Derby County boardroom in 1971. I told him that as well. We never did become friends.

Edited by Alex Moss
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8 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Yeah, great season Eddie, I was a massive fan of Worthy and that was another season in the second tier that I will remember with far more affection than some of our Premier League escapades.

Was at the Chelsea game too for that game. Mate worked at Chelsea and sorted me a ticket but I was stuck in with all the Chelsea fans if I recall correctly. What I do remember is being in a prime place right near the goal to see that Zola wonder goal. See Todd producing those kind of back heel flicks every game now albeit in a passing movement so I prefer his for some reason ha ha. Before the game, my mate John introduced me to young John Terry. He was wearing the most horrific brown suit you’ve ever seen in your life. This abomination cost him 4 grand or something. It looked like something that would have been worn in the Derby County boardroom in 1971. I told him that as well. We never did become friends.

Proper memories Alex. 

This city team would have won that replay buddy. The wondergoal may have been Todd's or Emi's👍

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13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Me and my daughter loved that season. We went to Millwall for the opening game, got beat 4-0, but we knew then the team was better than the previous season. We won the next game against man Citeh when Libra scored that goal. We went away a lot that season. The run in was amazing, smash and grab at Bradford before thousands going to Barnsley. Then the Stockport game and waiting to see if we made the play offs. Then stuffing wolves and going to molyneux holding out in the second leg. It ended disappointingly at Cardiff against Brum but what a day! Went with my son and daughter. Half Norfolk went to Wales.

Oh and the fa cup against Chelsea. We met Claudio Ranieri before the game when we went for the replay. He told me we should have won Saturday's game (we would have but for Cuddicini) but we'd lose tonight. He was right but through the disappointment I'm still glad I was there. Zola's goal was quite something to have seen. 

You don't share many memories Midlands. Just we lost to Birmingham. Do you have memories?

Visiting my great grandparents resting place near the railway station but fixated by the noise coming from Carrow road. Without checking it was around 74 against Sunderland and a promotion season, think it was a 0.0 match around March/April. 

I finally got to see a live match the following season, F.A cup 2.0 win against Luton.  I’m not sure where in the ground the press box was back then but I watched the 2nd half there after getting lost after visiting the toilets. 
 

 


 

 

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2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

The academy production line is the best we’ve ever known, long may it continue. 

I think we have to be careful here. It probably isn't. As most of those we claim to be from our academy aren't.

Maddison - Coventry, had already played first team games for Coventry in fact.
Godfrey - York, and as with Maddison, had already broken through to the first team.
Lewis - came to us at 16 years old from Luton.
Aarons - at Luton until 14 years old, but then without a club. We picked him up at age 16 and was a mighty insightful signing.
Martin - is 19 and was at Arsenal until aged 17.
Barden - at Arsenal until age 18.
Idah - at College Corinthians until age 16.

Cantwell is properly home grown and has come all of the way through our academy.

Now I am not suggesting we haven't done a good job with those players, and there are more. But I think it is worth pointing out that largely, they were all brought in at aged 16 or more after largely being a part of other clubs academy/youth set ups.

The rules were different back in the 80's and 90's. There wasn't a 90minute rule to recruiting players. We had satellite facilities that would unearth the likes of Eadie, Bellamy and others hailing from Wales and the west country. We cannot forget Marshall, Green, Shackell, Mills, Kenton and several others who served us well in their time with us too.

Our academy system in the modern concept of them is doing well. What I would say is that our youth scouting system is far better than it has been, and the higher age group part of our youth set up is also clearly doing some great work with players aged 16-20.
 

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1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Proper memories Alex. 

This city team would have won that replay buddy. The wondergoal may have been Todd's or Emi's👍

Out of likes or you’d have got a lot reading some of your posts on this thread tonight me old mate. Proper memories indeed! Was still just about young enough to cry at the thought of Rob Green leaving us ha ha. And you know what? You’re right. This city team would have beaten that Chelsea side - Krul would have pulled off one of his incredible reflex saves to deny Zola and it would have been Emi or Todd flicking it in at the other end. We lost 4-0 (?) but just goes to show, you can still have fond memories of even matches where we got thrashed ha ha

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Just now, Alex Moss said:

Out of likes or you’d have got a lot reading some of your posts on this thread tonight me old mate. Proper memories indeed! Was still just about young enough to cry at the thought of Rob Green leaving us ha ha. And you know what? You’re right. This city team would have beaten that Chelsea side - Krul would have pulled off one of his incredible reflex saves to deny Zola and it would have been Emi or Todd flicking it in at the other end. We lost 4-0 (?) but just goes to show, you can still have fond memories of even matches where we got thrashed ha ha

I'm glad I met Claudio Ranieri and not John Terry🙃

Helen got on BBC news that day too. They filmed her checking her hair in a car wing mirror before boarding the bus at Carrow Road.

Teenage girls...

😂

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I'm glad I met Claudio Ranieri and not John Terry🙃

Helen got on BBC news that day too. They filmed her checking her hair in a car wing mirror before boarding the bus at Carrow Road.

Teenage girls...

😂

Ha ha rumbled! 😂. I heard the BBC were out in force for the game - I believe that was because John Terry was getting his suit valued on the Antiques Roadshow. Hope Helen and all of the family are well buddy - look forward to a pint or 3 after a match in just a few months time! 

Edited by Alex Moss

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28 minutes ago, chicken said:

I think we have to be careful here. It probably isn't. As most of those we claim to be from our academy aren't.

Maddison - Coventry, had already played first team games for Coventry in fact.
Godfrey - York, and as with Maddison, had already broken through to the first team.
Lewis - came to us at 16 years old from Luton.
Aarons - at Luton until 14 years old, but then without a club. We picked him up at age 16 and was a mighty insightful signing.
Martin - is 19 and was at Arsenal until aged 17.
Barden - at Arsenal until age 18.
Idah - at College Corinthians until age 16.

Cantwell is properly home grown and has come all of the way through our academy.

 

Have you forgotten about the Murphys?

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13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Our academy has turned those players in to what they are now.

Yes, I think I was just trying to differentiate the difference between the players we had come through the system back then to now. Very different era's and different systems.

Officially, what age does the academy stop at? Is it 18? I know we have under 23's but I'm never sure if that's classed as the academy as it effectively replaced the reserve team set ups and leagues.

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Just now, Alex Moss said:

Ha ha rumbled! 😂. I heard the BBC were there - I believe that was because John Terry was getting his suit valued on the Antiques Roadshow. Hope Helen and all of the family are well buddy - look forward to a pint or 3 after a match in just a few months time! 

We can't wait. 

Hope you're all recovered now too.

 

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1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Have you forgotten about the Murphys?

Yes. Doh!

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, chicken said:

Yes, I think I was just trying to differentiate the difference between the players we had come through the system back then to now. Very different era's and different systems.

Officially, what age does the academy stop at? Is it 18? I know we have under 23's but I'm never sure if that's classed as the academy as it effectively replaced the reserve team set ups and leagues.

I don't know. We're back to comparing different eras. What we have done well in the last few years is to accept how things are and find ways around them. That's Webber.

Although having said that it was David McNally and Ricky Martin who first got us Cat One. I think Cat One's the key.

 

Edited by nutty nigel

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7 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

We can't wait. 

Hope you're all recovered now too.

 

I bet! I really think a lot of us now have an even greater appreciation for such ‘simple’ things as going to a game, meeting fellow members of your football family, and chewing the fat win, lose, or draw, after a game! So yep, can’t wait either!

Thanks for asking buddy. Definitely not 100%, several months in my sense of smell has only just returned to a more normal level in the last couple of weeks or so, which is crazy really after several months. And of course taste goes hand in hand with that. And I’ve had side effects that I’m sure are due to Covid because I’ve never had rashes before in my life but I have since getting it, they just don’t seem to go away. Pretty horrifying when you think of all the ways it can affect you long term and you perhaps don’t even realise the half of it. But fortunately, when Norwich are doing good, I find I’m doing good so can’t complain! I hope no other fellow posters on here are suffering with any long term side effects too 🤞

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10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I don't know. We're back to comparing different eras. What we have done well in the last few years is to accept how things are and find ways around them. That's Webber.

Although having said that it was David McNally and Ricky Martin who first got us Cat One. I think Cat One's the key.

 

It most certainly is. And we have certainly done well. I think the cup winning side under Adams perhaps highlighted where we could be going if things were done right. I think they were disappointed more of that side didn't make it. The Murphy's, Morris and Toffolo are at least operating in the Championship or above.

 

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24 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I bet! I really think a lot of us now have an even greater appreciation for such ‘simple’ things as going to a game, meeting fellow members of your football family, and chewing the fat win, lose, or draw, after a game! So yep, can’t wait either!

Thanks for asking buddy. Definitely not 100%, several months in my sense of smell has only just returned to a more normal level in the last couple of weeks or so, which is crazy really after several months. And of course taste goes hand in hand with that. And I’ve had side effects that I’m sure are due to Covid because I’ve never had rashes before in my life but I have since getting it, they just don’t seem to go away. Pretty horrifying when you think of all the ways it can affect you long term and you perhaps don’t even realise the half of it. But fortunately, when Norwich are doing good, I find I’m doing good so can’t complain! I hope no other fellow posters on here are suffering with any long term side effects too 🤞

Really hope you soon recover fully. There are a lot of side effects. 

This has been a tough time for so many. Especially the old and vulnerable. If they've managed to keep clear of covid their lives have been ruined in many other ways. 

I think we will only get back to how things were if the vaccines are and remain effective.

13 months ago we were hugging people we hardly knew because City scored a goal...

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10 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Strange thing to say - would you like me to write you out a list of the teams who have had Premier League parachute payments over the last 10 years and who have failed to come straight back up? It will take me a while to write it and you a while to read it. 

Not when the previous point was about finances after the pandemic

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@chicken You can’t say the current version of the academy isn’t producing (although TBF I’m not sure you are saying that) until you’ve allowed at least, say, six years surely?

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I suspect the days of wealthy foreigners buyting into football clubs mught be coming to an end.

Rumours abound about the guy who owns West Brom being in financial trouble and also Wolves wealthy owners deciding that taking Wolves to a top six club is beyond even their deep pockets and they want some of thier money back.

Be very careful what you wish for.

Wasn't Evans purported to be the man to take Pisswich into the big league? Remind me where they are now!

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9 hours ago, chicken said:

It most certainly is. And we have certainly done well. I think the cup winning side under Adams perhaps highlighted where we could be going if things were done right. I think they were disappointed more of that side didn't make it. The Murphy's, Morris and Toffolo are at least operating in the Championship or above.

 

I wouldn't say they are disappointed, the academy has been an absolute goldmine and the Murphy's were effectively the start of it - pretty much everyone else in that cup winning side was already on Norwich's books before the Cat1 status got achieved. Since then we've been able to nab good young players. Jamal Lewis, Ben Godfrey, Max Aarons to name a few...

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Me and my daughter loved that season. We went to Millwall for the opening game, got beat 4-0, but we knew then the team was better than the previous season. We won the next game against man Citeh when Libra scored that goal. We went away a lot that season. The run in was amazing, smash and grab at Bradford before thousands going to Barnsley. Then the Stockport game and waiting to see if we made the play offs. Then stuffing wolves and going to molyneux holding out in the second leg. It ended disappointingly at Cardiff against Brum but what a day! Went with my son and daughter. Half Norfolk went to Wales.

Oh and the fa cup against Chelsea. We met Claudio Ranieri before the game when we went for the replay. He told me we should have won Saturday's game (we would have but for Cuddicini) but we'd lose tonight. He was right but through the disappointment I'm still glad I was there. Zola's goal was quite something to have seen. 

You don't share many memories Midlands. Just we lost to Birmingham. Do you have memories?

All fans live in the moment - and at present it's a fabulous feeling. Take nothing away.

However one could argue our biggest 'successes' was the League Cup win (yes I was there) and the glory days in the EPL and Europe when we feared nobody  - indeed the big clubs feared us. May they return.

I remember an old work colleague - indeed friend who was and still is a died in the wool Manure supporter being terrified of the match between us expecting the worst - chatting to me as we were 2:0 up and eventually came away I think 2:1. Yes we were the favorites! Glory days (My colleague went on eventually via a stint in the US to be an extremely senior figure in Man City (go figure) and I hope to get to wave at him  we swap places at the end this season too :). Matt.

Edited by Yellow Fever
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24 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 a died in the wool Manure supporter

dyed😀

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27 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

All fans live in the moment - and at present it's a fabulous feeling. Take nothing away.

However one could argue our biggest 'successes' was the League Cup win (yes I was there) and the glory days in the EPL and Europe when we feared nobody  - indeed the big clubs feared us. May they return.

I remember an old work colleague - indeed friend who was and still is a died in the wool Manure supporter being terrified of the match between us expecting the worst - chatting to me as we were 2:0 up and eventually came away I think 2:1. Yes we were the favorites! Glory days (My colleague went on eventually via a stint in the US to be an extremely senior figure in Man City (go figure) and I hope to get to wave at him  we swap places at the end this season too :). Matt.

Did you colleagues name rhyme with Barry Hook?

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20 minutes ago, king canary said:

Did you colleagues name rhyme with Barry Hook?

No. Think artists 

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1 hour ago, duke63 said:

I suspect the days of wealthy foreigners buyting into football clubs mught be coming to an end.

Rumours abound about the guy who owns West Brom being in financial trouble and also Wolves wealthy owners deciding that taking Wolves to a top six club is beyond even their deep pockets and they want some of thier money back.

Be very careful what you wish for.

Wasn't Evans purported to be the man to take Pisswich into the big league? Remind me where they are now!

If this was the case it would be great news.

In an ideal world ownership like we have shouldn't be a barrier to being able to compete at the highest levels. The more clubs have to live within their means the better for us.

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, ricardo said:

dyed😀

I noted that but in ****'s case or any Manure supporter died I think is fine. Same as the farm boys down the road. All hope died years ago.

Edited by Yellow Fever
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6 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Not when the previous point was about finances after the pandemic

Worth pointing out then that we will have lost far more projected revenue due to COVID than nearly every other Championship team. We would have planned for the revenue from 25,000 + crowds for every home game. Only Derby and possibly Forest would have got near this. We had to contend with a far bigger financial hit from lost gate receipts than Watford or Bournemouth (who both had parachute payments too), but we're comfortably ahead of both in the table. 

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On 08/04/2021 at 12:56, Hansterbubble said:

Badger makes a good point, investors want a return. I rather like our self sustaining model and a quick look at last years accounts showed a small £63k dividend being paid but little else in the way of return to the owners. 

Making provision for it in the accounts doesn’t actually mean that they paid the preference share dividend (which, by the way, should go to all preference share holders, not just the owners). 😉

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2 hours ago, GMF said:

Making provision for it in the accounts doesn’t actually mean that they paid the preference share dividend (which, by the way, should go to all preference share holders, not just the owners). 😉

Were they not paid then GMF? I couldn’t see anything in the accounts to say it was being deferred, and the cash flow statement shows previous years dividends were paid, so I assumed they either were paid or would be paid on the dividend date. I didn’t check further as either way it’s small beer, which essentially was my point.
 

I think you are confusing ownership and control, or at least thinking only of Delia and MWJs as the owners as they have the controlling interest. I see how you get to that, but it’s not quite right. The shareholders are the owners of the company, the different share classes mean holders have different rights, in terms of return, repayment in a winding up and voting at general meetings. It looks as if the “A” and “B” preference shares contain no voting right so holders can exert no direct control over the club. The ordinary shares will have voting rights providing the holders with control over the company. 

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