Ownership - it’s time for the debate

[Mark .Y. 352]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

There are not many things in football worse than supporting West Ham, Crystal Palace, Burnley, Southampton and Newcastle. 

Imagine what it must be like hoping that you càn be better than the three recently promoted teams in a dreary annual battle against relegation. What a miserable outlook when compared to a season like we are having. When was the last time neutrals drooled over Burnley?

Living in Portsmouth it pains me to say that Southampton fans are generally fairly content withe their lot. Can't break into the top 6 but generally churn out a few decent results in a season (and some horrendous losses !!) but do have a chance of a crack at the cups

[king canary 7,605]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not convinced there. In fact, I'll give you a couple of prime European examples of clubs who punched miles above their weight for a long time on similar models.

Auxerre under Guy Roux, and Freiburg under Volker Finke.

Both from the 90's if I recall correctly?

Football over the last 15 years or so has been in ever accelerating monetary arms race, with covid being the only thing to slow it down even a bit.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

Wow ! This must be the first time Uncle Fred has started a thread and it has got to page 5 without the slightest hint it is heading for deletion. 😂

Edited April 8, 2021 by TIL 1010

[horsefly 4,298]

57 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

It doesn’t need “prescience” to see the other outcomes of our premier league journeys under this stewardship. 
We do get goodwill payments, each time we are in the championship. Sky provide them. Hence my comments about comparing us to other clubs through the pandemic. 
I am not privy to Bournemouth’s and Watford’s accounts, so cannot help you on that front. But like us, they rejected big bids for their stars-Sarr and Brooks.

No you're right it doesn't require prescience to look back at past experiences, but it does require prescience to forecast that the future will be identical to the past. The club couldn't have been clearer that it was working according to a self-sustaining model based on the concept that we first needed to establish ourselves as a top 26 club. That included the prospect that we might find ourselves relegated, but if so we would be in a financial position such that we could maintain a strong squad capable of bouncing straight back up again. So far so good on that front. That model also included the idea that in bouncing back up we would be in a stronger position at the next promotion to improve the squad to have a better crack at remaining in the premier league this time round. So far so good on that front (remarkably despite covid). Who knows where we shall be come the conclusion of next season, but so far the model seems to be working pretty well. Failing the appearance of some canary fanatic billionaire happy to spend massively without any requirement of a return on his investment, I fail to see what other model could possibly rival the one we currently have. So far I've heard a lot about selling the club to a billionaire investor, I've yet to see any names about just who among them is clamouring to buy the club.

Edited April 8, 2021 by horsefly

[Monty13 2,231]

The most successful English clubs of last few years is broadly the same top English clubs ever. 

Teams will spend some time breaking in and out of the top half of the PL but it’s highly unlikely any team outside of those that have always been there will stay there long term.

I have no idea what a rich owner gains us over the footballing adventure we’ve had since our league 1 relegation, it’s broadly been an absolute rollercoaster that most fans would have loved to have been a part of.

Much rather have owners that love the club than some speculator businessman or conglomerate.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Monty13

[sonyc 5,512]

1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Try the late 80s and early 90s. Three top five finishes, Europe and a couple of semis in the F.A cup.
Don’t get me wrong this is a great season but on par with the above mentioned? Don’t think so. 

 

Brilliant teams (and a much favoured period for me was 84 to 93)  then yes I could agree... but my point was about alignment or unity between ownership / strategic direction / team / manager / supporters. Plus our academy and youth set up is far superior as are our assets. As stated as a whole package, I've not known better MY. 

[Vazzza 62]

Assuming we go up (blah blah blah) I imagine we’ll see more loans with the obligation to buy if we stay up. Seems to be the way we work lately, and think it’s very prudent. Try before you buy.
 

Think of some of the players we loaned last time that didn’t work out (Amadou etc) that we could’ve been stuck with in the champs. 
 

Very good way of working within the self sustainable model. Greatly reduces the risk

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Brilliant teams (and a much favoured period for me was 84 to 93)  then yes I could agree... but my point was about alignment or unity between ownership / strategic direction / team / manager / supporters. Plus our academy and youth set up is far superior as are our assets. As stated as a whole package, I've not known better MY. 

The academy production line is the best we’ve ever known, long may it continue. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

I think the current owners have given us a great platform to allow us to compete in the premiership. This is the only thing they have failed to crack. Hopefully the next season will not be as disappointing as the last disasterous premiership campaign. It shouldn't be as our finances should be in a better shape and we are not leak as much goals... Time will tell. 

Keeping Emi is essential to any successful survival campaign

[Thirsty Lizard 3,162]

3 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Why no mention of the £40m in parachute payments we received? 

Strange thing to say - would you like me to write you out a list of the teams who have had Premier League parachute payments over the last 10 years and who have failed to come straight back up? It will take me a while to write it and you a while to read it. 

[Nuff Said 5,131]

51 minutes ago, Vazzza said:

Assuming we go up (blah blah blah) I imagine we’ll see more loans with the obligation to buy if we stay up. Seems to be the way we work lately, and think it’s very prudent. Try before you buy.
 

Think of some of the players we loaned last time that didn’t work out (Amadou etc) that we could’ve been stuck with in the champs. 
 

Very good way of working within the self sustainable model. Greatly reduces the risk

Didn’t work out so well with Max Aarons for Barcelona!

[Badger 2,405]

5 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

What always worries me is if the EPL became a franchise system as per the US  ( Yuk ) - or we had as oft discussed a top European club breakaway league.

That's why we need to be in the EPL NOW to keep a foot in such a door. 

I could of course be proved wrong, but would have thought a European League was more likely. This is where the really big money is to be made.

[Vazzza 62]

23 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Didn’t work out so well with Max Aarons for Barcelona!

Barcelona wouldn’t commit to the obligation to buy I believe, was just a straight loan if I recall?

[Badger 2,405]

4 hours ago, NeymarSmith said:

Well It hards for me to deny how well it has worked so far and long may it, but does it go to pot if we loose certain scouts etc or the next class of farkes fledgings don't turn out to be what we expect. 

I'm not crisitising just pointing out something

The point is, that if this were to happen, the very fact that we are not carrying large debt, or employing highly overpaid players, means that we remain in a position to put things right.

It is much, much harder to recover from a poor manager, poor scouting etc if you have spent tens of millions of pounds buying the player who sits there as an ongoing drain on high wages + are over £100 million in debt. 

[nutty nigel 7,531]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Binner history was largely ancient history even then although they were still in the PL!

But the relevance is my daughter and grandson wouldn't  remember the late 80s early 90s. That's why the binner history is so pathetic. But remember it was pathetic 10 years ago.

History is history. The last ten years are far more relevant for generations of fans.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I blame that Dave Javu. EawEawEalways brings this topic up.

Anyone seriously think they have the answer?

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

21 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

But the relevance is my daughter and grandson wouldn't  remember the late 80s early 90s. That's why the binner history is so pathetic. But remember it was pathetic 10 years ago.

History is history. The last ten years are far more relevant for generations of fans.

History when it suits! Like it. 

[nutty nigel 7,531]

10 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

History when it suits! Like it. 

It's not really where it suits is it!

It's what folk remember.

When we do still on the ball we spend most time in the 1950s and 1960s. When they vote best goalkeeper of all time it's usually Ken Nethercott.

That's before my time. Like the late eighties is before later generations time. All three generations of my family with season tickets remember the last ten years.

Just to add how sad would it be if generations who never saw the glorious history quoted it binner style as an achievement.

Edited April 8, 2021 by nutty nigel

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It's not really where it suits is it!

It's what folk remember.

When we do still on the ball we spend most time in the 1950s and 1960s. When they vote best goalkeeper of all time it's usually Ken Nethercott.

That's before my time. Like the late eighties is before later generations time. All three generations of my family with season tickets remember the last ten years.

Just to add how sad would it be if generations who never saw the glorious history quoted it binner style as an achievement.

History is always relevant, I still enjoy watching Norwich games from any decade. Ipswich are garbage at present but I’ll acknowledge they were once a very fine team. 

Show your grandkids this beauty, still the only English team to beat Munich at the Olympic stadium. 
 

 

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Strange thing to say - would you like me to write you out a list of the teams who have had Premier League parachute payments over the last 10 years and who have failed to come straight back up? It will take me a while to write it and you a while to read it. 

In fairness we must be the daddies at collecting parachute payments in the last decade. How many have we received? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It's not really where it suits is it!

It's what folk remember.

When we do still on the ball we spend most time in the 1950s and 1960s. When they vote best goalkeeper of all time it's usually Ken Nethercott.

That's before my time. Like the late eighties is before later generations time. All three generations of my family with season tickets remember the last ten years.

Just to add how sad would it be if generations who never saw the glorious history quoted it binner style as an achievement.

To be fair, double N, if I was an Ipswich supporter, I would be proud of their history.

Its only when it is used as an argument such as who is the better club that it become irrelevant. Because at the moment we are. And it is illustrated profoundly by the difference in morale between this site and theirs.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

14 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

History is always relevant, I still enjoy watching Norwich games from any decade. Ipswich are garbage at present but I’ll acknowledge they were once a very fine team. 

Show your grandkids this beauty, still the only English team to beat Munich at the Olympic stadium. 
 

 

 

My eldest two grandsons have watched that before. They were also at Wembley in 2015. 

Which one do you think they're proud of?

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

My eldest two grandsons have watched that before. They were also at Wembley in 2015. 

Which one do you think they're proud of?

Which one are you more proud of? 

[nutty nigel 7,531]

Probably 2015 when I was there with my son, daughter and two of my grandsons. No definitely. You can't beat being there all together 

This last year we've all been followers. There's happiness with a win. Sadness with a defeat but no joy.

The joy will come back though.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

To be fair, double N, if I was an Ipswich supporter, I would be proud of their history.

Its only when it is used as an argument such as who is the better club that it become irrelevant. Because at the moment we are. And it is illustrated profoundly by the difference in morale between this site and theirs.

You can be proud of history. I'm proud of the 59ers. But how can you hold it up against what you have actually been part of?

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

You can be proud of history. I'm proud of the 59ers. But how can you hold it up against what you have actually been part of?

All Norwich supporters would be clinging onto history if they witnessed us from 95 to 2003. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Midlands Yellow

[nutty nigel 7,531]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

All Norwich supporters would be clinging onto history if they witnessed us from 95 to 2003. 

I've witnessed us from 1967 to 2021.

Do you know anyone who only witnessed 1995 to 2003?

BTW I have cherished memories of 2001/2. It was an amazing season.

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

I've witnessed us from 1967 to 2021.

Do you know anyone who only witnessed 1995 to 2003?

BTW I have cherished memories of 2001/2. It was an amazing season.

Birmingham play off defeat? 

[Nuff Said 5,131]

1 hour ago, Vazzza said:

Barcelona wouldn’t commit to the obligation to buy I believe, was just a straight loan if I recall?

True, but then neither did we with Amadou, Duda or Roberts. Fortunately.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

25 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Birmingham play off defeat? 

Me and my daughter loved that season. We went to Millwall for the opening game, got beat 4-0, but we knew then the team was better than the previous season. We won the next game against man Citeh when Libra scored that goal. We went away a lot that season. The run in was amazing, smash and grab at Bradford before thousands going to Barnsley. Then the Stockport game and waiting to see if we made the play offs. Then stuffing wolves and going to molyneux holding out in the second leg. It ended disappointingly at Cardiff against Brum but what a day! Went with my son and daughter. Half Norfolk went to Wales.

Oh and the fa cup against Chelsea. We met Claudio Ranieri before the game when we went for the replay. He told me we should have won Saturday's game (we would have but for Cuddicini) but we'd lose tonight. He was right but through the disappointment I'm still glad I was there. Zola's goal was quite something to have seen. 

You don't share many memories Midlands. Just we lost to Birmingham. Do you have memories?

Edited April 8, 2021 by nutty nigel