Jump to content
Bill

breaking - binners sold

Recommended Posts

26 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Strange for an organisation that always mocks NCFC for not having any history , that your plan is to replicate our ,erm , history . All of the above we already have . No debt , cat 1 , representation further south , high quality training complex and proven youth development . 
ITFC bang on about 40 years ago. We have the luxury of banging on about 48hours ago - demolishing a side 7 nil to  plaudits from (knowledgeable) football people , going 17 pts clear and gaining promotion to the Prem (and another large turnover)

First thing the new owners should do is ditch the stars on the shirt , and talk about the real world . No other team in the country  (Forest excepting) drone on about irrelevant past details .
 

Unless you still want to shop in Woolworths. 

It's strange though as you seem to take offence to history being remembered.   You've had a good decade of up and down the leagues, earning etc,  is that not something you'd want to remember in years to come, or is there an expiry on such events.  If so, then no point getting all high and mighty about the now as you won't want to remember it in the future.  I look forward hopefully to having some derbies again at some point in the future,  but for now, you guys carry on enjoying your current picture and for us hopefully we can put the pain of the M.E years behind us, if it doesn't work, then that's it. but that's football. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, chrismakin said:

Town fan here, I come in peace.

 

Just to help with some 'thoughts'

The Arizona Pension 'pot' comes in at around £440 Billion,   this obviously won't the the figure available,  but what ever the investment -  it's a small part of the pension funds.  I think apart from Prem being the overall target, it will be academy -  potentially cat 1 and rumours of moving it closer to London,   Then the opportunity to purchase land around Portman Road, Cardinal Park etc as Brett Johnson has a lot of experience in building sports complexes.   It'll be a long term plan  but for the fans, it will just be nice to see -  hopefully a more structured club and not 1 man trying to be everything and maybe some point again we can have a Derby game, regardless of  result. 

Regarding out debt,  all but £400,000 has effectively been written off. 


It’s hard to pin down exactly who the ultimate investor is, but it is thought to be the Arizona State Pension Scheme. I had a quick look at it yesterday evening and it’s facts and figures page shows it has total fund value of $41.8bn. Not sure where the figure referred to above of $440bn comes from. Apparently the fund pays out around $1bn in benefits each year so you can get a rough idea of what return they need. 

I expect this is a high risk investment for them, as most of their money is tied up in equities, gilts and property to generate returns, and provide liquidity. So they do have deep pockets, but also strict governance around how they deploy their funds. Unlike some wealthy investors this isn’t a vanity project and I’d be surprised to see them throw money at it. The feeling I get from the press is that they think they have experience within their ranks that will enable the club to develop, but I couldn’t immediately see anything that suggested how they would approach that. As I said before the danger with these sorts of investments is that the investor is there solely for profit, generated from a rise in asset value. If they can’t generate that they lose interest and if they do they sell it.

Link to the pension scheme is here  https://www.azasrs.gov/content/facts-figures.

Edited by Hansterbubble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chrismakin said:

It's strange though as you seem to take offence to history being remembered.   You've had a good decade of up and down the leagues, earning etc,  is that not something you'd want to remember in years to come, or is there an expiry on such events.  If so, then no point getting all high and mighty about the now as you won't want to remember it in the future.  I look forward hopefully to having some derbies again at some point in the future,  but for now, you guys carry on enjoying your current picture and for us hopefully we can put the pain of the M.E years behind us, if it doesn't work, then that's it. but that's football. 

I think you are confusing an observation with “taking offence” , as no offence is taken. My point is that very few organisations of any kind achieve success through looking backwards . ITFC have a soft underbelly for those that use what happened 40 years to ingratiate themselves with the supporters- for a few months Lambert played the same card. 
 

Someone in your media dept briefs on “mention our history” like few others . When I was last in your board room it was still adjourned with old photos. 
 

We played Preston last week - I’m sure they won the Cup many moons ago but it didn’t get a mention during the coverage .
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chrismakin said:

It's strange though as you seem to take offence to history being remembered.   You've had a good decade of up and down the leagues, earning etc,  is that not something you'd want to remember in years to come, or is there an expiry on such events.  If so, then no point getting all high and mighty about the now as you won't want to remember it in the future.  I look forward hopefully to having some derbies again at some point in the future,  but for now, you guys carry on enjoying your current picture and for us hopefully we can put the pain of the M.E years behind us, if it doesn't work, then that's it. but that's football. 

What happened in the past is part of our club, not the be all and end all of it's being

It comes to something when even a new manager (s) at poorman road are pulling the pi ss out of you.

And I would hop'e that in 40 years rime City supporters are not bleating on about this past decade as fck all has happened in those intervening years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I think you are confusing an observation with “taking offence” , as no offence is taken. My point is that very few organisations of any kind achieve success through looking backwards . ITFC have a soft underbelly for those that use what happened 40 years to ingratiate themselves with the supporters- for a few months Lambert played the same card. 
 

Someone in your media dept briefs on “mention our history” like few others . When I was last in your board room it was still adjourned with old photos. 
 

We played Preston last week - I’m sure they won the Cup many moons ago but it didn’t get a mention during the coverage .
 

Apologies, misread your original reply, hence my first line.                  Town will always talk about  cups etc,  they're proud of it, and why not, doesn't matter for some, does for others.  It is something which does still help with our name globally, that hasn't changed, although our recent form brings more laughter than a smile and appreciation lol.         The thing is for you and anyone else hearing and reading what the new guys said yesturday may seem like soundbites..... but with M.E we didn't even know him or see him when he took the club on,  and the fact the very first thing they are doing is a simple Footballing CEO appointment,  well already that's achieved more than anything else we've had  in 14 years!!!   yes that's how bad it's been lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chrismakin said:

 Town will always talk about  cups etc,  they're proud of it, and why not, doesn't matter for some, does for others.  It is something which does still help with our name globally, that hasn't changed,

and therein is why so many laugh at you....globally !

you are barely known nationally, and an object if ridicule locally

as to pride we are quite favourable to the three league titles, one play off trophy and an FA youth cup we have won in the oast decade - but we accept that success and look to the future

what comes across is a sad delusion that you are some kind of 'national treasure', rather than a grubby little club who has ponced off others consistently to the point of running up bills you knew you had no means if paying, and in doing so left a huge number of local traders out of pocket

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bill said:

and therein is why so many laugh at you....globally !

you are barely known nationally, and an object if ridicule locally

as to pride we are quite favourable to the three league titles, one play off trophy and an FA youth cup we have won in the oast decade - but we accept that success and look to the future

what comes across is a sad delusion that you are some kind of 'national treasure', rather than a grubby little club who has ponced off others consistently to the point of running up bills you knew you had no means if paying, and in doing so left a huge number of local traders out of pocket

"you are barely known nationally, and an object if ridicule locally"         So you're clearly one of 'those' forum posters that get's ignored by most.  You clearly have no idea.  So i'll refrain from reading anymore from you.     

"and in doing so left a huge number of local traders out of pocket"       Broke your  own rule there Bill.. History is History and that was over 15 years ago now, so time to move on.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, chrismakin said:

"you are barely known nationally, and an object if ridicule locally"         So you're clearly one of 'those' forum posters that get's ignored by most.  You clearly have no idea.  So i'll refrain from reading anymore from you.     

"and in doing so left a huge number of local traders out of pocket"       Broke your  own rule there Bill.. History is History and that was over 15 years ago now, so time to move on.  

I wish you'd move on🙄......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, chrismakin said:

"you are barely known nationally, and an object if ridicule locally"         So you're clearly one of 'those' forum posters that get's ignored by most.  You clearly have no idea.  So i'll refrain from reading anymore from you.     

"and in doing so left a huge number of local traders out of pocket"       Broke your  own rule there Bill.. History is History and that was over 15 years ago now, so time to move on.  

Wow, that's a record, you've been here 5 mins and already worked Bill out.

Don't take it personally, every forum has one and he's ours.

We all love him really 😉

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Hansterbubble said:


It’s hard to pin down exactly who the ultimate investor is, but it is thought to be the Arizona State Pension Scheme. I had a quick look at it yesterday evening and it’s facts and figures page shows it has total fund value of $41.8bn. Not sure where the figure referred to above of $440bn comes from. Apparently the fund pays out around $1bn in benefits each year so you can get a rough idea of what return they need. 

I expect this is a high risk investment for them, as most of their money is tied up in equities, gilts and property to generate returns, and provide liquidity. So they do have deep pockets, but also strict governance around how they deploy their funds. Unlike some wealthy investors this isn’t a vanity project and I’d be surprised to see them throw money at it. The feeling I get from the press is that they think they have experience within their ranks that will enable the club to develop, but I couldn’t immediately see anything that suggested how they would approach that. As I said before the danger with these sorts of investments is that the investor is there solely for profit, generated from a rise in asset value. If they can’t generate that they lose interest and if they do they sell it.

Link to the pension scheme is here  https://www.azasrs.gov/content/facts-figures.

Im not entirely sure either with that large figure, it's one that popped up, but it does vary alot,    It's an interesting mix of boardmembers, some with football backround, one with property, one with profile management etc, it's very mixed.  I think it'll be a case of actually using any finances wisely and not wasting it,  i.e not having a  squad of over 50 would be a good starting point.  There's  so much they need to change at the club it'll take a good year or 2 just to get it ready imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chrismakin said:

"you are barely known nationally, and an object if ridicule locally"         So you're clearly one of 'those' forum posters that get's ignored by most.  You clearly have no idea.  So i'll refrain from reading anymore from you.     

"and in doing so left a huge number of local traders out of pocket"       Broke your  own rule there Bill.. History is History and that was over 15 years ago now, so time to move on.  

oh dear, as a binner you certainly live up to the thicko tag

your club defrauded an awful lot of people, and that cannot be erased by rime

but in fairness that should not define your club anymore than your moment in the sun

however

it is about now, a 'now' that you farmhands have been reluctant to face on here up until yesterday

a now. and a future that sees us picking up another title, having players each worth as much as your club and being back in the PL

and if you have anything worth saying you have had since 2002 to come on here and say it, so why the absence ?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bill said:

oh dear, as a binner you certainly live up to the thicko tag

your club defrauded an awful lot of people, and that cannot be erased by rime

but in fairness that should not define your club anymore than your moment in the sun

however

it is about now, a 'now' that you farmhands have been reluctant to face on here up until yesterday

a now. and a future that sees us picking up another title, having players each worth as much as your club and being back in the PL

and if you have anything worth saying you have had since 2002 to come on here and say it, so why the absence ?

 

 

Oh no, he got the oh dear treatment 😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Wow, that's a record, you've been here 5 mins and already worked Bill out.

Don't take it personally, every forum has one and he's ours.

We all love him really 😉

 

far too easy at times 😋

Premium Vector | Illustration of cartoon boy fishing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, chrismakin said:

Apologies, misread your original reply, hence my first line.                  Town will always talk about  cups etc,  they're proud of it, and why not, doesn't matter for some, does for others.  It is something which does still help with our name globally, that hasn't changed, although our recent form brings more laughter than a smile and appreciation lol.         The thing is for you and anyone else hearing and reading what the new guys said yesturday may seem like soundbites..... but with M.E we didn't even know him or see him when he took the club on,  and the fact the very first thing they are doing is a simple Footballing CEO appointment,  well already that's achieved more than anything else we've had  in 14 years!!!   yes that's how bad it's been lol

I think the idea Ipswich have any great global reputation these days makes me chuckle a bit to be honest.

For anyone aged 35 or under, Ipswich are not that different to Preston or Bristol City- a championship mainstay who haven't threatened the top flight in years.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, chrismakin said:

Just to help with some 'thoughts'

Are you not concerned with the simple fact that pension funds are required to provide a return on investment?

How do you conceive of a situation where all this investment you outline results in the return? It simply doesn't make sense

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

Are you not concerned with the simple fact that pension funds are required to provide a return on investment?

How do you conceive of a situation where all this investment you outline results in the return? It simply doesn't make sense

TBH, i've literally no clue,  it's basically a sht or bust time for the club,  I've been trying to work out why would be needed to keep the Pension shareholders  happy, but the only way realistically that will happen would be prem, so potentially for all, it's a  go all  in or bust situation.  I could be wrong and hope im wrong, but I don't really see how it would work without prem being achieved. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chrismakin said:

TBH, i've literally no clue,  it's basically a sht or bust time for the club,  I've been trying to work out why would be needed to keep the Pension shareholders  happy, but the only way realistically that will happen would be prem, so potentially for all, it's a  go all  in or bust situation.  I could be wrong and hope im wrong, but I don't really see how it would work without prem being achieved. 

Now is the right time for your club to do it, it needs a major overhaul from top to bottom.

I don't think it will be a quick thing but who knows whether it's going to work or not, only time will tell I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, chrismakin said:

TBH, i've literally no clue,  it's basically a sht or bust time for the club,  I've been trying to work out why would be needed to keep the Pension shareholders  happy, but the only way realistically that will happen would be prem, so potentially for all, it's a  go all  in or bust situation.  I could be wrong and hope im wrong, but I don't really see how it would work without prem being achieved. 

The sensible method would be to try and follow a Brentford or (dare I say it) Norwich type model.

Focus on youth development and clever scouting, meaning even if you don't go up you can make profits from play sales. However if that was easy everyone would be doing it.

I'd actually be concerned for you if they went 'all in so to speak as if it doesn't work quickly they could just cut their losses and run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hansterbubble said:


It’s hard to pin down exactly who the ultimate investor is, but it is thought to be the Arizona State Pension Scheme. I had a quick look at it yesterday evening and it’s facts and figures page shows it has total fund value of $41.8bn. Not sure where the figure referred to above of $440bn comes from. Apparently the fund pays out around $1bn in benefits each year so you can get a rough idea of what return they need. 

I expect this is a high risk investment for them, as most of their money is tied up in equities, gilts and property to generate returns, and provide liquidity. So they do have deep pockets, but also strict governance around how they deploy their funds. Unlike some wealthy investors this isn’t a vanity project and I’d be surprised to see them throw money at it. The feeling I get from the press is that they think they have experience within their ranks that will enable the club to develop, but I couldn’t immediately see anything that suggested how they would approach that. As I said before the danger with these sorts of investments is that the investor is there solely for profit, generated from a rise in asset value. If they can’t generate that they lose interest and if they do they sell it.

Link to the pension scheme is here  https://www.azasrs.gov/content/facts-figures.

What I had found yesteday was this:

https://reason.org/policy-study/arizona-state-retirement-system-solvency-analysis/ 

But what isn't clear (at least to me, since I don't care enough to try to find out!) is who will be putting money into the project, assming money is put into the project. My guess is that will be down to the visible new owners rather than the fund.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, kirku said:

Are you not concerned with the simple fact that pension funds are required to provide a return on investment?

How do you conceive of a situation where all this investment you outline results in the return? It simply doesn't make sense

It does if you think of the asset mix. They’ve got most of their money in very safe, liquid assets such as AAA rated equities and Govt securities and these provide the ‘normal’ return that they need to pay benefits. I guess this is a high risk asset which they will hold to make a super profit. If they can get to the premier league in 5 years with only small investment and then sell they may make 3x or even 5x asset value. I’ve no idea what that might look like in reality, but to illustrate my point what they want is to make £200-£500m return on the sale, not get steady 5% return each year, which over 5 years might give a £20-£50m return. 

It would be the small investment bit that would worry me as a fan? How much will they spend and will it be on players, which is risky, or on infrastructure which is less risky and hopefully will increase the asset value long term? How long will they wait for their return? If they do find a gem will they reinvest the funds into the club or take it out as a dividend? 

Thanks Chris, $41bn is a lot of noughts and it’s easy to misread! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, chrismakin said:

TBH, i've literally no clue,  it's basically a sht or bust time for the club,  I've been trying to work out why would be needed to keep the Pension shareholders  happy, but the only way realistically that will happen would be prem, so potentially for all, it's a  go all  in or bust situation.  I could be wrong and hope im wrong, but I don't really see how it would work without prem being achieved. 

Fair enough. I just can't get my head around the reasoning. None of the numbers seem to stack.

I actually hope there's nothing nefarious going on because it's always fun to have a local rival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hansterbubble said:

It does if you think of the asset mix. 

Burnley were recently valued at about £250m. How much and how long would it take for Ipswich to get to that level? 

I scribbled £150m on a fag packet, and that's assuming everything goes well

Edited by kirku
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Purple, that analysis made me wince a bit and I did note that the return made by the pension scheme last year was only 0.8% well under the 3% roughly that they state they need to make. It does suggest that the ‘deep pockets’ quote might be a bit over stated!

Ive no idea of where the money will come from and like you I’m not sure I want to dig any further. It’s always hard to follow the chain through to the real owners, but at least on first blush it does look like the pension scheme will be stumping up the money.

I don’t think it is anything nefarious. I’m pretty sure the pension scheme would be allowed a (very) few risky bets like this. It’s a bit like me putting £10 on the lottery. It won’t affect my day to day spending or my long term savings, but there is a small chance I could win a life changing amount. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, kirku said:

Burnley were recently valued at about £250m. How much and how long would it take for Ipswich to get to that level? 

I scribbled £150m on a fag packet, and that's assuming everything goes well

Thanks Kirku, you’re right that’s not much is it. Mind you they do have that incredibly valuable intangible asset, their “history” to add in the mix. 🥴😬

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Hansterbubble said:

I don’t think it is anything nefarious. I’m pretty sure the pension scheme would be allowed a (very) few risky bets like this. It’s a bit like me putting £10 on the lottery. It won’t affect my day to day spending or my long term savings, but there is a small chance I could win a life changing amount. 

This is the part I struggle with.

I don't see room for that "lottery win"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Hansterbubble said:

Thanks Purple, that analysis made me wince a bit and I did note that the return made by the pension scheme last year was only 0.8% well under the 3% roughly that they state they need to make. It does suggest that the ‘deep pockets’ quote might be a bit over stated!

Ive no idea of where the money will come from and like you I’m not sure I want to dig any further. It’s always hard to follow the chain through to the real owners, but at least on first blush it does look like the pension scheme will be stumping up the money.

I don’t think it is anything nefarious. I’m pretty sure the pension scheme would be allowed a (very) few risky bets like this. It’s a bit like me putting £10 on the lottery. It won’t affect my day to day spending or my long term savings, but there is a small chance I could win a life changing amount. 

I worked for a firm developing & trialling a wireless internet mesh system for a couple of years. It went bust, basically due to insoluble technical difficulties (hidden from the management). I always found it rather amusing that it was financed by the Coal Board pension fund; it was part of their mix of investments, some venture capital they gambled with, peanuts to them which could have paid off big time but didn't. Happens quite a lot I would imagine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Hansterbubble said:

Thanks Kirku, you’re right that’s not much is it. Mind you they do have that incredibly valuable intangible asset, their “history” to add in the mix. 🥴😬

 

Kevin McGuire valued Everton at just over £250m pre-COVID 😬

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Happens quite a lot I would imagine.

It does happen a lot, but (to my knowledge) not very often in such an inherently risky and capital intensive environment as English football

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...