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Renskay

Are we going to buy from South America this summer?

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Posted (edited)

I just listened to the interview with Stuart Webber from February on the club youtube page and he made reference to the scouting department looking in South America {5:41} for transfers now due to the new Brexit rules. It got me wondering about what type of players are on their radar. Since Norwich don't have a long history of signing South American wonderkids in the FM style of fantasy transfers, it's kind of intriguing how this potential strategy might pay off.

It's probably an area most of us don't know much about but I was curious to know if any of you had a player in mind who you think might be worth a look for the club to strengthen us *when* 😉 we become a Premier League team.  I know it's speculation but it's just for fun.

My name to throw out is Talles Magno. He is a young Striker/Winger from Vasco Da Gama who previously had big name interest in the past from clubs like Liverpool, after comparisons to Neymar for his quick feet and skill. He is clearly very raw but talent is there.

 

Recently his valuation by Vasco has dropped enormously due to them being relegated from the top tier of Brazilian football and the team facing financial hardship (with a projected loss of approx. £10 million).

They are cited as being in a "hurry" to negotiate with a European club, even willing to make a deal before the European transfer window starts. Reportedly Vasco are willing to accept approx. £7 Million with interest mentioned from Sporting Lisbon in Portugal, Kazan in Russia and also Palmeiras from Brazil. This one could be a bit of a coup for a club who jumps in and takes the chance on him.

If anyone else has suggestions please drop them below. 

@Darth Vadis - Pedro de La Vega 

 

13 hours ago, Darth Vadis said:

Pedro de La Vega looks like a good player

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I had never heard of him before but seems to have attracted interest from all over the world including Bielsa looking to get him at Leeds this past January although he only was reported to have offered £3.5 million.  Previous interest from Arsenal, Real Madrid and Man City for a reported £10m. Genoa and inter almost had deals that fell through as well with Lanus (Vega's club) said to have been looking for €12 million at that time in 2019 and 2020.

Wolves also said to have bid £13.5 million in the summer of 2020.

He is a 20 year old winger/striker with dual Argentinian and Spanish citizenship. Looks very very good.

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Edited by Renskay
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6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

What about a work permit?

It's going to be easier for South American players to get work permits with Brexit. They will be including continental qualifications in the criteria of getting a work permit so players who have appeared in the Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamerica will help them qualify for a work permit. Vasco have appeared in the Copa Sudamerica last year and got to the last 16 so it gives Talles Magno some points to add to his ability to get a work permit.

 

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17 minutes ago, Renskay said:

It's going to be easier for South American players to get work permits with Brexit. They will be including continental qualifications in the criteria of getting a work permit so players who have appeared in the Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamerica will help them qualify for a work permit. Vasco have appeared in the Copa Sudamerica last year and got to the last 16 so it gives Talles Magno some points to add to his ability to get a work permit.

 

Doesn't sound like he'd get enough points, if he's been playing in the Brazilian second tier?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kirku said:

Doesn't sound like he'd get enough points, if he's been playing in the Brazilian second tier?

He's been playing in the Brazilian top division since he was about 16 with 49 appearances at 18 years old but the team just got relegated this year in February. He's also an U-17 World Cup winner with Brazil but I don't know what that does in terms of points.

Edited by Renskay

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12 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Would we not be better off buying British?

But how many Premier League standard players have we seen this season? Apart from our own. The centre half at Middlesbrough is a good player and Watford have one or two if they don't go up. And if Fulham go down they have Lamina on loan. But because of Brexit most British players are going to be out of our price range 

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5 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Would we not be better off buying British?

Prices will be very high for British players since there will be more demand for them. I was just thinking the club are considering players from farther afield because Stuart Webber said Asia and South America were areas they were looking at.

I actually recall Delia talking about Stuart Webber taking trips to Brazil specifically to scout players or something (she didn't really say) when she was being interviewed at the end of the first Championship winning season. This is why I'm assuming some contact may be made with a Brazilian team but it's just a hopeful guess because it would be kind of cool.

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14 minutes ago, Renskay said:

He's been playing in the Brazilian top division since he was about 16 with 49 appearances at 18 years old but the team just got relegated this year in February. He's also an U-17 World Cup winner with Brazil but I don't know what that does in terms of points.

Nothing. 

Getting relegated in February probably means he gets points but I'm not sure how the seasons are worked out when they're not on the same cycle

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

But how many Premier League standard players have we seen this season? Apart from our own. The centre half at Middlesbrough is a good player and Watford have one or two if they don't go up. And if Fulham go down they have Lamina on loan. But because of Brexit most British players are going to be out of our price range 

Personally I like seeing the British players being given a go but the really good ones will become a premium rarity as clubs look to fulfil the new transfer policy. So that leaves the club with the necessity to search for alternatives.

Edited by Renskay

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Unfortunately, Brexit has made it harder for clubs like ours to punch above their financial weight. 

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L1 and L2 players to improve our team in the Prem? Nope

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Watford have a great scouting network and have bought quite a few players from South America over the years-even then, they weren't always able to get work permits so were loaned to clubs in Europe-sometimes being sold for a profit without playing a game for them.

I imagine it will be very hard to get a permit for a South American player-even if he has dual nationality with a European country. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kirku said:

Nothing. 

Getting relegated in February probably means he gets points but I'm not sure how the seasons are worked out when they're not on the same cycle

I found this sentence from this article "Players from those leagues playing regularly in domestic and continental competitions (especially combined with youth or senior international appearances) could stand a chance of getting a work permit." 

There are probably a lot of decent South Americans who meet that standard. I'm still getting to grips with these new rules so apologies if I'm mistaken at any point.

Edited by Renskay

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1 minute ago, Mr Angry said:

Watford have a great scouting network and have bought quite a few players from South America over the years-even then, they weren't always able to get work permits so were loaned to clubs in Europe-sometimes being sold for a profit without playing a game for them.

I imagine it will be very hard to get a permit for a South American player-even if he has dual nationality with a European country. 

Yes that's true. They have an excellent scouting network but they are a unique case because they can send their players by loan or transferring them outright to affiliate clubs they also own. This makes it easier to plan a players development since it's easier to have influence on the amount of game time they get. Their Spanish team Granada is also useful because South Americans can get Spanish citizenship within 2 years there.

Our loan system, while sometimes fruitful, is flawed in the sense that it seems like we struggle to find an adequate location for our loan players and when they are sent somewhere there is no guarantees they will play or even be considered. I think Rocky Bushiri and Melvin Sitti are examples of this.

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1 minute ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

They used to improve top tier teams

Not every top player comes through a premier league academy 

Maybe there are some more James Maddisons floating about

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1 hour ago, Renskay said:

Prices will be very high for British players since there will be more demand for them. I was just thinking the club are considering players from farther afield because Stuart Webber said Asia and South America were areas they were looking at.

I actually recall Delia talking about Stuart Webber taking trips to Brazil specifically to scout players or something (she didn't really say) when she was being interviewed at the end of the first Championship winning season. This is why I'm assuming some contact may be made with a Brazilian team but it's just a hopeful guess because it would be kind of cool.

It came up again in Keiran Scott's December interview with the Athletic  that they'd sent Mariela Nisotaki on a scouting trip to South America 12 months ago taking in the Copa Libertadores, various national youth teams and domestic games over six weeks.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

They used to improve top tier teams

Not every top player comes through a premier league academy 

Things change. This is one of them.

There isn't a single L1 or L2 player who would improve a Prem side.

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32 minutes ago, Renskay said:

Maybe there are some more James Maddisons floating about

If there are, which is reasonably unlikely, then his clone would be great.

In about 3 years.

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9 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

It came up again in Keiran Scott's December interview with the Athletic  that they'd sent Mariela Nisotaki on a scouting trip to South America 12 months ago taking in the Copa Libertadores, various national youth teams and domestic games over six weeks.

 

 

That sounds quite interesting.

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5 minutes ago, Ward 3 said:

65 games 5 goals for this guy. Its a no from me

He's more of a winger than a direct striker plus only 18. If you watch him play you'll see why he's rated highly.

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4 minutes ago, Renskay said:

He's more of a winger than a direct striker plus only 18. If you watch him play you'll see why he's rated highly.

Maybe but still I can see him being crap in English football

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2 hours ago, Renskay said:

I found this sentence from this article "Players from those leagues playing regularly in domestic and continental competitions (especially combined with youth or senior international appearances) could stand a chance of getting a work permit." 

There are probably a lot of decent South Americans who meet that standard. I'm still getting to grips with these new rules so apologies if I'm mistaken at any point.

There must be some kind of database that can calculate the number of points each player has accumulated. It must be so frustrating for clubs to spot a talented player, but then realise that he doesn't have enough points to qualify for a permit. 

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Posted (edited)

I remember hearing a while ago that the club has been ramping up scouting efforts in South America, and these new work permit regulations make player recruitment from Latin America a lot easier, particularly Brazil and Argentina. A lot of decent players there will now qualify. 

This is quite a decent explanation of the new rules:

https://worldfootballindex.com/2020/12/work-permits-premier-league-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man
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3 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Would we not be better off buying British?

When the likes of Jonson Clarke-Harris are valued at £6-7m (Darragh McAnthony referenced it in his weekly podcast) and he's playing in the 3rd tier then I think it shows why we will need to mainly shop abroad unless a good deal pops up for a loan/free signing.

Even we were demanding £20m+ for Cantwell in summer. We need to somehow find players as good as him at least but for a fraction of the price. We should be good for the home grown rules now as well so room to fit 3 or 4 quality foreign imports in alongside Skipp and maybe another domestic loanee

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