Many on social media dislike us- How do we avoid relegation?

[paddycanary 538]

10 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

You are like the EU - how dare we have left that corrupt and incompetent organisation. You must be rubbing your hands with glee at the thought they might try to ban vaccine exports contravening legally binding contracts to supply.

In regards to the death rate you should remember that deaths are treated as covid - 19 related if they occur within 28 days of a positive covid -19 test. This is not the same as saying that the deaths ate actually due to covid - 19. You died of covid if you get run over by a bus within 28 days of a positive test.

Are international death rates all reported on an equivalent basis? If not comparisons are meaningless.

For all its faults, and there are quite a few, the EU has succeeded in raising living standards in each & every of its member states, including the UK despite being a net contributor. This is currently the longest period without war since written history began within the EU bloc.

Corruption and incompetence in British governance is not just current & ongoing, but long predates the existence of the EU/EC/EEC/Common Market/Schengen/Benelux...

I wouldn't normally get involved in a political discussion here on Pinkun but the first part of your post is blinkered, bigoted and narrow-minded.

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

9 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Hadn’t we lost 3.1 after Holt equalised?

Seem to recall watching it from Greece. Didn't Drogba get knocked out by Ruddy - and Holt lobbed the goalie for our equalizer who escapes me at present. I seem to recall as well the eventual score didn't reflect our overall performance and one fluke goal ?

[Nuff Said 5,089]

4 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

These people don’t mean šhit to us.  They will see like we do that we are the dog danglers as a club. I will thoroughly admit here and now that whilst there are may things I feel we could improve at the club and investment is high on that list. I was wrong about Mr Farke. He has turned us in to an even better side than we were in the last championship campaign IMO. We defend to a man we are tight our passing is top draw and whilst we maybe haven’t scored so many I actually thing our victories have been much more convincing and controlled.

Bloôdy well do Mr F and the board. We have shown a determination to hang on to the players we wanted to and look where we are. Hands up I for one am eating some humble pie. And loving it.

I was this close to giving you a hard time about your post on Rupp’s performance on the Forest thread, so only fair to say credit to you for this one.

[Midlands Yellow 3,934]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Seem to recall watching it from Greece. Didn't Drogba get knocked out by Ruddy - and Holt lobbed the goalie for our equalizer who escapes me at present. I seem to recall as well the eventual score didn't reflect our overall performance and one fluke goal ?

Norwich played very well and attacked after equalising. This squad does seem so much better but Lambert certainly had the Midas touch back then. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

Should be a motivator. The best way to shut up a critic is to ram their words so hard down their throat that you choke the wan-kers.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

14 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

See Brexit. Also the number of people who think Boris Johnson is doing a good job when we have the fourth highest deaths per capita in the world.

to be honest, all the Brexit **** pales in comparison to the #kbf covid denying antivaxxers that are on twitter now. A completely new level of uselessness there. Mad to think that many other countries have an even bigger problem with this as well. Matt Le Tissier made himself look a right fool today!

[All the Germans 1,075]

Bravo guys, I'm not sure how you have done it but you've shoehorned my three most hated topics - Brexit, Social Media and Covid - into one discussion. Good effort.

[horsefly 4,287]

 

[First Wazzock 902]

[K Lo 221]

On 18/03/2021 at 09:10, Nuff Said said:

See Brexit. Also the number of people who think Boris Johnson is doing a good job when we have the fourth highest deaths per capita in the world.

Ah yes, Brexit... UK has highest vaccine roll out in Europe by a massive margin... well over 3x the vaccinations/100 people as EU countries (3.4x that of France, Germany & Italy).

There are at least 18 countries in Europe with a higher death rate (7 day rolling average) that UK (source https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths )

but don't let that cloud your bias.

[K Lo 221]

On 18/03/2021 at 20:55, paddycanary said:

For all its faults, and there are quite a few, the EU has succeeded in raising living standards in each & every of its member states, including the UK despite being a net contributor. This is currently the longest period without war since written history began within the EU bloc.

Corruption and incompetence in British governance is not just current & ongoing, but long predates the existence of the EU/EC/EEC/Common Market/Schengen/Benelux...

I wouldn't normally get involved in a political discussion here on Pinkun but the first part of your post is blinkered, bigoted and narrow-minded.

"the EU has succeeded in raising living standards in each & every of its member states,"
 - Where's your evidence for this ? Where's the proof that this was due to the EU ?

Many countries outside of the EU have succeeded in raising their living standards. Is that also down to the EU ?

[Upo 91]

WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT YO-YOING? 🙃

Think about it.

First, in PL we get a lot of money and a  shot at not being relegated. Second, if we get relegated, we have a great time beating everybody in the Championship.

Norwich City literally can't lose as long as our finances are in order and we're run by competent people. Which we are. 

If the detractors are not jealous it's because they're too stupid to figure this out. Webber and Farke have beaten the game. 😅

[K Lo 221]

38 minutes ago, Upo said:

WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT YO-YOING? 🙃

Think about it.

First, in PL we get a lot of money and a  shot at not being relegated. Second, if we get relegated, we have a great time beating everybody in the Championship.

Norwich City literally can't lose as long as our finances are in order and we're run by competent people. Which we are. 

If the detractors are not jealous it's because they're too stupid to figure this out. Webber and Farke have beaten the game. 😅

If it's between yo-yo ing or doing a Bolton/Charlton/Sunderland/Portsmouth etc, I'd go for yo-yo ing.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

4 hours ago, K Lo said:

Ah yes, Brexit... UK has highest vaccine roll out in Europe by a massive margin... well over 3x the vaccinations/100 people as EU countries (3.4x that of France, Germany & Italy).

There are at least 18 countries in Europe with a higher death rate (7 day rolling average) that UK (source https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths )

but don't let that cloud your bias.

WTAF?

“It’s the economy, stupid.”

[K Lo 221]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

WTAF?

“It’s the economy, stupid.”

What's the economy ?

[The Real Buh 3,423]

Being active on Social media is like smoking 20 cigarettes a day. It’s bad for you. Don’t do it.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

4 hours ago, K Lo said:

What's the economy ?

Fair point, it is receding rapidly out of sight.

[K Lo 221]

7 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Fair point, it is receding rapidly out of sight.

So is everybody else's.
What do you expect ?

[paddycanary 538]

9 hours ago, K Lo said:

"the EU has succeeded in raising living standards in each & every of its member states,"
 - Where's your evidence for this ? Where's the proof that this was due to the EU ?

Many countries outside of the EU have succeeded in raising their living standards. Is that also down to the EU ?

I didn't want to get into this kind of a discussion, but I suppose I'm in now. Regarding your first point, I accept it's a fairly sweeping statement and probably unprovable. However, I think the EU has its fingerprints on a huge number of social improvements since its foundation, which I'll try to outline in a moment. Whether or not these improvements would have happened anyway without the EU, or perhaps have been even better, is even more unprovable than my own initial statement. The fact that the institution has only grown (with the single exception of the UK leaving) from 6 to 27 members with I think 5 more currently applying would suggest membership is seen as desirable and beneficial. Without digging too deep at all, here are a number of ways the EU has enabled improvements in living standards for its member states:

- Freedom & ease of movement between countries for work, study (e.g. Erasmus), to holiday, to retire. Legally no discrimination in areas of employment, taxation & social security status

- In 2012, the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for its advancement of Human Rights

- Its emissions trading policies have greatly helped to increase awareness of & to stall the damage being done to the quality of air & water. How often do you hear about things like smog & acid rain within the EU compared to 20/30 years ago?

- As a bloc, the EU has comfortably accepted more asylum seekers than any other nation or group of nations working together & when taken as a bloc is also comfortably the world's leading provider of humanitarian aid.

- Freedom of movement for goods, services & finance with less bureaucracy aids competition, opens up markets, gives consumers more choices, decreases price discrimination, discourages cartels & monopolies, and makes pricing more transparent (see making international phone calls, removal of roaming charges, the likes of Ryanair, how much easier it is to fly abroad compared to 20/30 years ago to pick just a couple of examples. These policies help to make purchasing electronic devices such as the one you used to post on this forum affordable - compare the price of a TV relative to wages in the 1980s to today. These changes didn't just happen. The EU played a huge part in enabling them)

- The European Social Fund has been & continues to support and subsidise the training & education of the less well off & the unemployed, particularly in areas such as Portugal, Southern Italy, Greece and more recently in the Baltic countries and Eastern Europe.

- The EU's regional policy has similarly long been identifying the areas most in need of social & infrastructural improvements within its borders, investing huge amounts, e.g. supporting educational investment, grants for SMEs, building roads, helping to fund the building of hospitals, airports & communication networks, improving sanitation & water quality, developing recycling facilities & removal of refuse/waste

- The Common Agricultural Policy (while certainly not perfect) has, through its direct payments schemes, helped to alleviate the struggles of the farming sector as small farmers disappear, people increasingly move into cities & from increased mechanisation. The EU has made huge investments into encouraging forestry, discouraging practices which exhaust soils and in areas such as food safety & animal welfare. These policies benefit all.

- The opening up of the energy markets has benefitted consumers, increased transparency, enabled cross-border co-operation to buy and sell electricity (see the inter-connectors) and kept prices competitive. You can change suppliers every 12 months to avail of the most competitive prices if you wish. These kinds of policies have virtually ensured a constant supply of affordable electricity through a hugely improved physical infrastructure. Remember blackouts? 

-  The EU has aided peacekeeping missions in many locations over the last 30 years. I think I read that over half a million have also been rescued in the Mediterranean over the last 10-12 years?

- London & Southeast England benefitted hugely from the access to European capital & bond markets to become a financial powerhouse through the 80s & 90s.

 

I could go on about how all European residents' standards of living have improved due to membership of the EU in areas of health, medicine, taxation, co-operation in policing, cybercrime, culture & the arts, smuggling & fraud etc., but I'm already bored with this post and I suspect it will do nothing to persuade the doubters and/or closed-minded anyway. I think I've backed up my initial statement somewhat. And anyway, this is a football forum. I'm off to bed. 

Apologies to those who've made it all the way to the end of this post

 

 

[Bali Canary 11]

On 18/03/2021 at 17:10, Nuff Said said:

See Brexit. Also the number of people who think Boris Johnson is doing a good job when we have the fourth highest deaths per capita in the world.

Spot on comparison. 

[K Lo 221]

2 hours ago, paddycanary said:

- Freedom & ease of movement between countries for work, study (e.g. Erasmus), to holiday, to retire. Legally no discrimination in areas of employment, taxation & social security status
This is a big detriment to many that are working class... and was a big reason why towns like Boston, Lincs and GY voted Leave in big numbers.
It's an advantage to the Middle Class but not the Working Class, whose wages are held low as they are competing with young people with fewer financial commitments. Get 6 Eastern-Europeans in one house and they'll work for less that 1 person who has a family and a house that they're trying to keep.
We can still holiday in the EU. You can still work in the EU. 5 friends of mine work in the US; they don't have Freedom of Movement agreements with the UK.

- In 2012, the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for its advancement of Human Rights.
That's not to say that the UK wouldn't have been on a par with the EU. As it is, the UK is ahead of EU in animal welfare; banned the making and import of foie gras, banning live animal exports.

- Its emissions trading policies have greatly helped to increase awareness of & to stall the damage being done to the quality of air & water. How often do you hear about things like smog & acid rain within the EU compared to 20/30 years ago?
Again, this doesn't mean that the UK wouldn't have kept pace or done the same... it's not as though we're reversing ULEVs or putting off the banning of the sale of combustion-engined cars soon.

- As a bloc, the EU has comfortably accepted more asylum seekers than any other nation or group of nations working together & when taken as a bloc is also comfortably the world's leading provider of humanitarian aid.
This was a reckless move by Merkel, who clearly has no regard for the safety of the people she's meant to be protecting, nor those in adjoining countries. No one knows who they are; they could be terrorists, rapists, murderers, drug dealers. No one knows. Now we are getting thousands of people coming over from France in dinghys and they could be anyone.
It's shown that it's more cost-effective to keep people where they are and create safe spaces there than to bring them here and suffer culture clashes.

- Freedom of movement for goods, services & finance with less bureaucracy aids competition, opens up markets, gives consumers more choices, decreases price discrimination, discourages cartels & monopolies, and makes pricing more transparent (see making international phone calls, removal of roaming charges, the likes of Ryanair, how much easier it is to fly abroad compared to 20/30 years ago to pick just a couple of examples. These policies help to make purchasing electronic devices such as the one you used to post on this forum affordable - compare the price of a TV relative to wages in the 1980s to today. These changes didn't just happen. The EU played a huge part in enabling them)
A number of UK manufacturing plants have relocated to EU countries with EU grants, meaning that we have lost 1000s of UK jobs, partly paid for by UK's funding of the EU (Cadbury, Terry's of York, JLR). The UK was paying into the EU. The EU was spending about the same on Poland only for them to become viable sites for UK manufacturers.

- The European Social Fund has been & continues to support and subsidise the training & education of the less well off & the unemployed, particularly in areas such as Portugal, Southern Italy, Greece and more recently in the Baltic countries and Eastern Europe.
Yes, how are Greece & Italy getting on under the EU ?

- The EU's regional policy has similarly long been identifying the areas most in need of social & infrastructural improvements within its borders, investing huge amounts, e.g. supporting educational investment, grants for SMEs, building roads, helping to fund the building of hospitals, airports & communication networks, improving sanitation & water quality, developing recycling facilities & removal of refuse/waste.
These improvements in countries' infrastructure was being funded by the UK to a great extent (obviously as well as Germany, Italy, France) only for them to become more competitive with us and so take away UK manufacturing. Why would you pay competitors to be more competitive than you ?

- The Common Agricultural Policy (while certainly not perfect) has, through its direct payments schemes, helped to alleviate the struggles of the farming sector as small farmers disappear, people increasingly move into cities & from increased mechanisation. The EU has made huge investments into encouraging forestry, discouraging practices which exhaust soils and in areas such as food safety & animal welfare. These policies benefit all.
As the UK was massively a net-contributor, this was merely getting back a fraction of what we paid in.

- The opening up of the energy markets has benefitted consumers, increased transparency, enabled cross-border co-operation to buy and sell electricity (see the inter-connectors) and kept prices competitive. You can change suppliers every 12 months to avail of the most competitive prices if you wish. These kinds of policies have virtually ensured a constant supply of affordable electricity through a hugely improved physical infrastructure. Remember blackouts?
Again, something that could have been done without the EU.

-  The EU has aided peacekeeping missions in many locations over the last 30 years. I think I read that over half a million have also been rescued in the Mediterranean over the last 10-12 years?
Not something that couldn't be done without them.

- London & Southeast England benefitted [sic] hugely from the access to European capital & bond markets to become a financial powerhouse through the 80s & 90s.
Ah yes, all about London and the South East, what about the North East, North West ??

I could go on about how all European residents' standards of living have improved due to membership of the EU...
Again, where's the evidence that all EU residents' standards of living have improved and that that was due to the EU ?

I don't see EU citizens flying the flag over how the dismal vaccine roll out rate is improving their standards of living or longevity.

BTW, I voted Remain. At the time, I thought that it was best to stick with the devil you know but since then, I've only learnt more about how terrible the EU is. They break their own rules when it suits them and don't really care for their member states; just look at how they threw ROI under the bus with invoking Article 16 without informing anyone.
Now they're talking about hijacking production of vaccines in the EU destined for other countries outside of it... luckily for the UK, some of the AZ vaccines made in the EU destined for the UK require a UK-made component, so if the EU block that, the UK blocks the vital ingredient.

I like the notion of the EEC, i.e. common trading but the EU have made a stated claim that they want to take more political power away from individual countries.

Bottom line is that we're out, despite me voting Remain and only time will tell if that was a good decision or not.

 

[Icecream Snow 761]

The cynic in me says it's the tabloid press, driven by the agents who make huge commissions off desperate transfers. Since Norwich break that model, I'm not surprised there's huge spin against it.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

6 hours ago, K Lo said:

we are getting thousands of people coming over from France in dinghys

Source?
 

This is alarmist, dog whistle racism. The only way you can justify the word “thousands” is if you add up figures over several years, or assume peak figures are repeated every day. Asylum seekers enter the country in many ways, dinghys are only a tiny fraction of the total, but it’s newsworthy and can be used to drum up a headline. Highlighting it is a good indicator of an attempt to create alarm rather than have a rational debate. 
 

You belong with the likes of Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson and others who lie to whip up false panics and don’t deserve any further consideration.

[Jersey Canary 143]

On 18/03/2021 at 09:10, Nuff Said said:

See Brexit. Also the number of people who think Boris Johnson is doing a good job when we have the fourth highest deaths per capita in the world.

You need to ask Macron, Merkel and Von De Leyon how Brexit is working out. 😱. 
 

We’ve got a 7% increase in deaths compared to our average so before you jump on the left wing band wagon, our death rate once re-assessed will be similar to other counties. Especially when we realise no one died of flu last year, or cancer, or car crashes etc.

 

[Nuff Said 5,089]

4 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

You need to ask Macron, Merkel and Von De Leyon how Brexit is working out. 😱. 
 

We’ve got a 7% increase in deaths compared to our average so before you jump on the left wing band wagon, our death rate once re-assessed will be similar to other counties. Especially when we realise no one died of flu last year, or cancer, or car crashes etc.

 

Nuff said about how thought through your opinions are.

[Jersey Canary 143]

9 hours ago, K Lo said:

 

Lest we not mention the unaccountable unelected beaurocrats, the unverified accounts. The massive waste of money two European Parliaments. 

[Jersey Canary 143]

7 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Nuff said about how thought through your opinions are.

If you work out a 7% increase in deaths that puts us at around 65,000 deaths which is lower then the majority of your beloved EU countries including Germany, France and Italy. We’re going to be fully vaccinated by the end of the summer whereas the death toll still still be rising considerably in the wonderful EU. 

[K Lo 221]

3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Source?
 

This is alarmist, dog whistle racism. The only way you can justify the word “thousands” is if you add up figures over several years, or assume peak figures are repeated every day. Asylum seekers enter the country in many ways, dinghys are only a tiny fraction of the total, but it’s newsworthy and can be used to drum up a headline. Highlighting it is a good indicator of an attempt to create alarm rather than have a rational debate. 
 

You belong with the likes of Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson and others who lie to whip up false panics and don’t deserve any further consideration.

[This isn't even meant to be a political thread until someone decided to mention Boris Johnson for no reason whatsoever.]

Source: The Guardian:
"More than 4,000 have crossed Channel to UK in small boats this year".
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/09/number-migrants-crossing-channel-uk-passes-4000-this-year
Your assertion that I have to sum over several years to get thousands is false.

It isn't alarmist dog-whistle racism in the slightest.
You have no idea who these 4000+ people are (just for 1 year), do you ? They could be rapists, terrorists, murderers, drug dealers, you  don't  know. No one knows.
Certainly wasn't alarmist, dog-whistle racism for the 3 guys in Reading that were murdered. 

These are the government's own comments:
"Whatever their method of entering the UK however, without permission to work legally migrants can be exploited and forced into modern slavery or turn to crime to support themselves."
https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/what-we-do/crime-threats/organised-immigration-crime

There are correct procedures to apply for asylum in the UK, these should be adhered to, why do you think it is acceptable to circumnavigate these ?
Would you be happy to get on plane if people & luggage were not checked ?