Lauded on MOTD 1&2

[NWC 315]

 Both Lineaker and Chapman citing Norwich and the success of Daniel Farke this season after relegation from premier league when discussing Sheffield United’s sacking of Chris Wilde. 
we’re not that much under the radar 🙄

[PurpleCanary 6,378]

National commentators have got this Sheffield United-Wilder/Norwich City-Farke comparison predictably wrong. The situations are not the same.

[Indy 3,471]

5 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

National commentators have got this Sheffield United-Wilder/Norwich City-Farke comparison predictably wrong. The situations are not the same.

Absolutely, it’s been said we’re more like Man City-Guardiola! Nothing like hoofball Sheffield!😉

Edited March 15, 2021 by Indy

[cambridgeshire canary 7,797]

7 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

National commentators have got this Sheffield United-Wilder/Norwich City-Farke comparison predictably wrong. The situations are not the same.

Amusing given how last season it was 'wow Norwich suck why can't they be like Wilder and Sheffield United?'

[hogesar 10,761]

1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Amusing given how last season it was 'wow Norwich suck why can't they be like Wilder and Sheffield United?'

It's a valid point. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the same 'pundits' who said we should have spent more like Sheffield United now saying Sheffield United should be more like us.

But saying that, our fans are just the same. They want us to be Club A, B, C (with their owners, of course) until it no longer suits.

[Indy 3,471]

23 minutes ago, hogesar said:

It's a valid point. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the same 'pundits' who said we should have spent more like Sheffield United now saying Sheffield United should be more like us.

But saying that, our fans are just the same. They want us to be Club A, B, C (with their owners, of course) until it no longer suits.

Yes but then there’s loads of fans of other clubs saying why can’t our club be like Norwich! The grass is always greener!

The reality is football is cyclic and clubs go through lean years, we did from 1996 for 16 years where we visited the premiership once and the third division once.....now we’re looking like a solid borderline premiership club, bouncing back and forth, if any club is to be compared it has to be WBA, run similar, similar size and a great set of fans too.

[GenerationA47 863]

14 minutes ago, Indy said:

Yes but then there’s loads of fans of other clubs saying why can’t our club be like Norwich! The grass is always greener!

The reality is football is cyclic and clubs go through lean years

Agree with all that.
In other news, the Pope remains papist, bears defecate in the woods  and snow is white

oh.

[Bill 1,788]

Where the vast difference lies is in the perception that we didn't sack Farke after his (supposed) failure - as with Wilder and numerous others.

Farkes appointment was part of a wider and longer term plan. I suspect one that ran ahead of itself by gaining promotion. The thought then from some of the not too bright, was that we should then go on a spending spree on borrowed money to retain PL status at all costs......and hang the risk.

Our spending was based on the 'worst case scenario' - what was affordable were we to be relegated. So many struggle (as we did) with heavy wage bill and staged transfer fee payments that have to be met when relegated (watch B;mouth).

The projection by pundits is that Norwich have shown that if you stick with your manager it will 'somehow come good'. As a stand alone view that is nonsense. Without the scouting and coaching set up Farke would not have been able to achieve what we have this season, and will go on to achieve.

Finding players who have the motivation and persistence to succeed, is merely the beginning of the process. How many seeming 'pigs ears' have been turned into silk purses ? Aarons, Buendia, Cantwell and Godfrey and Lewis are not the players they are now because Farke was not sacked  Similarly  the improvement of McLean, Hanley and even Skipp is down to the wider picture.

One based on sustainably, rather than short term success.

[lake district canary 4,823]

The criticism against us last time was that "we didn't spend enough money" and the criticism against Sheff Utd is that they should maybe have stuck with Wilder, so the pundits are not changing their views.  We have rightly got praise for sticking with Farke (not that it was ever in doubt) as other clubs have stuck with managers after going down and able to return quickly. 

Sheff Utd may have done the very thing that they should not have done in getting rid of Wilder and may now face a total rebuild meaning they may be stuck in the championship for a while.  Wilder may have lost his mojo, we dont really know the ins and outs of it, but he was without doubt a good manager for them and ought to have been allowed to stay on to see if they can get straight back up again.

[Bill 1,788]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

The criticism against us last time was that "we didn't spend enough money" and the criticism against Sheff Utd is that they should maybe have stuck with Wilder, so the pundits are not changing their views.  We have rightly got praise for sticking with Farke (not that it was ever in doubt) as other clubs have stuck with managers after going down and able to return quickly. 

Sheff Utd may have done the very thing that they should not have done in getting rid of Wilder and may now face a total rebuild meaning they may be stuck in the championship for a while.  Wilder may have lost his mojo, we dont really know the ins and outs of it, but he was without doubt a good manager for them and ought to have been allowed to stay on to see if they can get straight back up again.

I think with many of these clubs the Director of Football is the owner - so there can be a clash of ideas.

I would also like to think Webber works with Farke etc, and with Adams and others, rather than them working for him

There is common purpose within the club and no small 'fiefdoms' that can easily arise whereby the club is split into differing factions (see Lambert and the binners). Having non football people in charge is always going to be problematic (Clegg/Milne)

We only really started to get into shape with the appointment of McNally, and having someone in control who can only see the balance sheet and the immediate league position is never a good thing either.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,786]

It’s lazy journalism. Pundits rarely bother to check the reasons why a team survives or doesn’t in the prem , aside from how much money they spend . 
Wilder did a great job last year , Farke did a terrible job last year . Why? Because Wilder spent a few quid and Farke didn’t . 

if it was that simple - We would just spend the required amount to guarantee staying up. The clever **** pundits just need to tell us how much that is . 

The real reasons are many . Injuries , styles , decisions as well as inevitably finance . We got plenty of plaudits (“ the best team to get relegated” ) right up until the disastrous restart - which everyone has now forgotten. 
 

Many many times we have said the club is only run as well as the results on the pitch . Today we are a well run club. During restart last year we were a poorly run club that didn’t deserve to stay up cos we didn’t spend as much money as Tony Cascarino said we should . 
 

Lose Pukki Todd and Emi to injury / suspension in the next few games and we could easily become a poorly run club again. 

Money has a massive part to play , but it has to be spent well . On Dimitri- yes . On Heise no. 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

To be fair, DF was never going to be sacked before a ball was kicked last season. 38 free hits wasn't it. And summed up by many being content enough that we beat ManC.

The board did not back Webber or DF so they had no reason to sack him. And don't forget for a lot of last season we had a midfield player at CB whether it was Tettey or Amadou.

Wilder spent a decent amount of money and it hasn't produced. OK they did very well last season but the syndrome came back to bite them this.

They will no doubt be favourites to come back up and that may well happen if they keep that squad in place. 

We are going straight back up because we have the best squad. Our injury crisis was as bad as anyones and yet we improved.

Now its up to the board. No more excuses about being lucky and unprepared or promotion. Your coach and the players have done you proud and you have surely, by selling Godfrey, covered a lot of the money lost this season.

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

Sheffield United lost the surprise element and didn't adapt to playing in the PL.

We've seen many clubs go up and play the same style and survive but it's what the team does second season that defines them.

It doesn't take long for teams to work out how to stop the Sheffield United style of play or indeed any teams style of play and then it comes back to the ability of your players to create something different.

Wilder did a fabulous job to get them there, a fabulous job of keeping them there and a poor job of adapting or modifying their style to be different in the second season.

[The Real Buh 3,765]

11 hours ago, NWC said:

 Both Lineaker and Chapman citing Norwich and the success of Daniel Farke this season after relegation from premier league when discussing Sheffield United’s sacking of Chris Wilde. 
we’re not that much under the radar 🙄

I just honestly don’t care what these people think. The opinions of Norwich fans about our clubs direction are what I focus on.

The opinions of these “pundits” are for their own self serving interest to get clicks and views.

In my opinion, we should continue to carve our own path out regardless of what anyone else says. We are a unique club and should continue to be.

[Greavsy 2,645]

53 minutes ago, Bill said:

Where the vast difference lies is in the perception that we didn't sack Farke after his (supposed) failure - as with Wilder and numerous others.

Farkes appointment was part of a wider and longer term plan. I suspect one that ran ahead of itself by gaining promotion. The thought then from some of the not too bright, was that we should then go on a spending spree on borrowed money to retain PL status at all costs......and hang the risk.

Our spending was based on the 'worst case scenario' - what was affordable were we to be relegated. So many struggle (as we did) with heavy wage bill and staged transfer fee payments that have to be met when relegated (watch B;mouth).

The projection by pundits is that Norwich have shown that if you stick with your manager it will 'somehow come good'. As a stand alone view that is nonsense. Without the scouting and coaching set up Farke would not have been able to achieve what we have this season, and will go on to achieve.

Finding players who have the motivation and persistence to succeed, is merely the beginning of the process. How many seeming 'pigs ears' have been turned into silk purses ? Aarons, Buendia, Cantwell and Godfrey and Lewis are not the players they are now because Farke was not sacked  Similarly  the improvement of McLean, Hanley and even Skipp is down to the wider picture.

One based on sustainably, rather than short term success.

@Bill do you need a vpn for motd? 

[Bill 1,788]

13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

 They will no doubt be favourites to come back up and that may well happen if they keep that squad in place.

Having borrowed against next seasons income I expect they will struggle, as has the 'silly little club'

What has been spent has not necessarily been paid for, and it would be interesting to see what financial liabilities they take down with them to the Championship

Whatever it is it will still mean selling to meet those payments and to cut the wage bill

That's why so many fail to 'bounce straight back'.

[Badger 2,745]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

The reality is football is cyclic and clubs go through lean years, we did from 1996 for 16 years where we visited the premiership once and the third division once.....now we’re looking like a solid borderline premiership club, bouncing back and forth, if any club is to be compared it has to be WBA, run similar, similar size and a great set of fans too.

I agree that there are cycles, but there are also long term trends.

The long term trajectory for City is upwards. When my grandad started watching we were pretty firmy a lower level club, which we remained until my father reached middle age. When I started watching we were established second division and as a youth we were promoted for the first time to the top division. Since then we have only once been outside the top two divisions. Our long term trend has been upwards, whilst others have declined. Cycles exist within trends.

 

 

 

[AJ 1,358]

Pundits are only pointing to us as we are doing well, I'm sure. We don't see long managerial careers on the whole anymore, which is a shame. It's nice when clubs have a system that works and stick with it to come good. Ferguson at United, Wenger at Arsenal being the two main examples from recent English football I guess but it just doesn't happen much anymore as bosses are too trigger happy seeking short term success. 

Watford, for example, have had 8(!) managers since Farke joined Norwich in May 2017. Farke is now the 13th longest serving manager in the entire football league.

Here's the short list of those serving longer than him from the Prem/Champ; Ainsworthy at Wycombe and Dyche at Burnley (both 8 years), Klopp (5 years), Guardiola, Warne at Rotherham, Mowbray at Blackburn, and Robins at Coventry (4 years). 

[GenerationA47 863]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

We are going straight back up because we have the best squad.

Well- also due to the improved tactics, linked to (overall) smart recruitment. It hasn’t been just the size & depth of our squad, but also the particular attributes of the players within a tweaked system.

Where once the 18-19 champions had Lambert-variant Farkeball, the 20-21 potential champions now exhibit Hughton-variant  Farkeball (😆 just imagine!).

Even if we don’t spend ‘enough’ this summer, if promoted I expect (& really hope) Farke and Webber will at least continue to evolve further the tactics and recruitment/retention. 

[Bill 1,788]

19 minutes ago, GenerationA47 said:

 Farke and Webber will at least continue to evolve further the tactics and recruitment/retention. 

Much has been down to the players we have had, as I am sure promotion wasn't too high on the list season 2018/19. The club made the best of it, but didn't allow it to distract from the long term aim of identifying and developing players.

That aim can be achieved in isolation. Find a promising player then expect him to improve just by joining us. Nope, an incredible amount of work is going into the coaching side of things - right down to having a dozen or so young players out on loan.

Our aim is not to sign 'instant' quality - that costs money, as with Buendia now. What would Cantwell or Buendia have fetched a couple of seasons back ? Whats McClean now worth.

We have set the ball rolling. Whether some of our loanees, and/or academy players will be able to step up to the PL we will have to see - but those who don't, it won't be because of failings with us.

Stick with it, the club is and we are in a damn fine place.

Something many supporters of others clubs can only dream of

[sgncfc 1,330]

This view about consistency is one spouted out by pundits and other managers. I remember Lineker's comments when we sacked Chris Hughton - he thought it was madness, because he hadn't bothered (like almost all of the media) to check why it happened, he just looked at the fact that it had. He thought Norwich City should stay in their place because what did they expect?

Well, what did Leicester fans expect when they sacked Ranieri, the man who won them the title?

Watford may well come up with us and they've had a massive change in results since they sacked their last manager. Maybe if Brentford sack Thomas Frank they'll finally get over a line and stop choking? The Sheff Weds manager reckoned our success was mainly down to continuity - well, he would say that wouldn't he, because he then gets a chance to stay in a job for a while; but hopefully continuity in personnel is a small part of the overall picture in our case.

Of course most sackings don't result in instant success; likewise most managers who stay in the job don't achieve success. Football management is a time limited job - things get stale; players respond to different styles etc

In Sheff Utd's case, they now have an owner who disagreed with the manager's views and methods; a bit like Ipswich. It was inevitable that Wilder would leave. He had made it "his" club - what owner would allow that to continue if they're not winning games? The next candidate for being moved on is Jurgen Klopp - fail to win anything this year and finish outside the top 4 and he'll be gone. That's football.