Male Violence

[Herman 9,717]

1 hour ago, Naturalcynic said:

What I find galling is the inevitable jumping on the bandwagon of the tragic death of Sarah Everard by left-wing misandrists despite the fact that men are far more likely to be killed than women.

I thought we all could unite about this subject and try and find a way to make life less risky and provide a safer environment for half of the population of this country. But no, along comes the whataboutery, distractions and diversion away from the main subject. Why don't you want this talked about? 

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

14 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

What really needs to change is for men to realise that being macho man is neither big nor clever and stunts their growth as human beings.  It isn't just down to men either.  Women too need to avoid reinforcing toxic male stereotypes.

I'm loathe to comment on this as some will no doubt get all uppity.

I think this phrase above BW I totally agree with - its the 'male' macho man stereotype that the dimmer males aspire to and value, encouraged by the lower echelons of society, TV and media as 'role' models (the glamorization of gangs and violence in movies and yes video games). It's the same as page 3 girls used to be for women. Braun not brains. It is better role models, education and less of the drinking macho sub-culture.  They know no better.

Saying that it is a 'male' problem and then blaming all males is simplistic, even sexist in the extreme and as others have pointed out a lone male walking back at night alone is far more likely to be attacked than a lone female. That said it is clearly a problem to be addressed in male society but there are nutters in all genders.  

 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

29 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Members of the groups you name need calling out regardless of whether they are male or female.  Gender is irrelevant.

You sound a bit upset and bewildered, and I sympathise.  Some men, especially older men, feel they are all being tarred with the same brush.  They aren't, but if they were it would be sexist.  However, no one is immune to influences from the culture in which they live.

What really needs to change is for men to realise that being macho man is neither big nor clever and stunts their growth as human beings.  It isn't just down to men either.  Women too need to avoid reinforcing toxic male stereotypes.

Gender is irrelevant as you say. Thing is BW, its men, not certain men, but men, being called out on this one.

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

The thing about comments on "toxic masculinity" is that many instinctively know what is meant, and those - particularly the younger ones - who are triggered are probably the ones who need to take note.

[sonyc 5,492]

55 minutes ago, Herman said:

I thought we all could unite about this subject and try and find a way to make life less risky and provide a safer environment for half of the population of this country. But no, along comes the whataboutery, distractions and diversion away from the main subject. Why don't you want this talked about? 

Spot on.

This is not about right or left wing anything. Posts like that just show how us men can become defensive. And I assume this board is made up in the majority of men.

It's uncomfortable to hear things. 

Yet the one thing men everywhere can do, whatever age, in whatever life situation...is simply to listen to what is being said. To listen without what reply they/we should give. That is for starters. And that is hard to do.

Up where I live there's a saying that goes (taking out the swear words) "you have two ears and one gob for a reason". Polite version.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by sonyc

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Spot on.

This is not about right or left wing anything. Posts like that just show how us men can become defensive. And I assume this board is made up in the majority of men.

It's uncomfortable to hear things. 

Yet the one thing men everywhere can do, whatever age, in whatever life situation...is simply to listen to what is being said. To listen without what reply they/we should give. That is for starters. And that is hard to do.

Up where I live there's a saying that goes (taking out the swear words) "you have two ears and one gob for a reason". Polite version.

 

I accept all that Sonyc. And the ones who aren't the problem will listen and discuss as we are now. But the problems are never solved because the perpetrators have no intention of listening.

For instance, Myra Hindley was loathed and hated by the greater majority of the population. Lord Longford then thought we should analyse what was to all intents and purposes, nothing more than innate perversion.

Then some loonies wanted to marry her.

What should the world do with these people? Essentially they have done nothing wrong--yet. 

So if I had complained to the authorities about this strange behaviour, what would have happened?

Until someone can come up with a solution rather than endless chatter, then all we will end up with is more of these incidents.

We cannot be a liberal democracy yet hold everyone to account for the actions of others.

I feel so confused as I still believe in being a gentleman to a lady. Opening doors, carrying bags, etc come natural yet others say, beggar it, they want equality, let them do it.

[horsefly 4,287]

3 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

so out of 33 million women in this country just over 100 were killed?

 

I mean, 100 is still 100 too many, but come on. That's what, less than 0.1 percent of the female population of the UIK

Would you like to tell us what number of killings would begin to attract your concern? You have massively missed the point I'm afraid. 

[sonyc 5,492]

30 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Until someone can come up with a solution rather than endless chatter, then all we will end up with is more of these incidents.

We cannot be a liberal democracy yet hold everyone to account for the actions of others.

I feel so confused as I still believe in being a gentleman to a lady. Opening doors, carrying bags, etc come natural yet others say, beggar it, they want equality, let them do it.

That's a very open and considerate response KG. No criticism from me about being confused or being a gentleman. Carry on being so. 

And there's always a clamour for answers. Men like to 'do' things and get stuff sorted. I certainly do. But my point that I made 'for starters' means just that. To simply hear what women are saying.

Incidents like this one are extremely rare but it's quickly becoming clear that the problem of many many women not feeling safe is ubiquitous. 

So we want solutions but one beginning is to hear stuff, to let it sink in as it were.

Sometimes too, we can do that any day with women (and men) including on here, on this forum. The issue has a wide continuum and certainly is linked to men and their role in society. I don't have answers and that is after having spent many thousands of hours involved in this field.

Most men are sound KG. We ought not confuse ourselves on that. Yet there are serious structural issues aren't there? If there wasn't an issue then the responses we read from women on social media, in papers, in debates etc would not even exist would it?

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by sonyc

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

That's a very open and considerate response KG. No criticism from me about being confused or being a gentleman. Carry on being so. 

And there's always a clamour for answers. Men like to 'do' things and get stuff sorted. I certainly do. But my point that I made 'for starters' means just that. To simply hear what women are saying.

Incidents like this one are extremely rare but it's quickly becoming clear that the problem of many many women not feeling safe is ubiquitous. 

So we want solutions but one beginning is to hear stuff, to let it sink in as it were.

Sometimes too, we can do that any day with women (and men) including on here, on this forum. The issue has a wide continuum and certainly is linked to men and their role in society. I don't have answers and that is after having spent many thousands of hours involved in this field.

Most men are sound KG. We ought not confuse ourselves on that. Yet there are serious structural issues aren't there? If there wasn't an issue then the responses we read from women on social media, in papers, in debates etc would not even exist would it?

 

I suppose I was trying to say that too many are making grey areas for situations that demand black and white.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

What is it with this modern obsession with disregarding everyone's individual agency and categorizing huge, diverse groups of people into convenient, simple boxes based on the most superficial things like gender, skin color etc? Is it because it's fashionable and trendy or because people just don't like thinking too hard about things and always want a simple answer?

 

This type of thing happens because unfortunately there are a lot of b4st4rds out there, it's why so many women AND men are killed every year. A murder victim is a murder victim regardless of their DNA or what set of chromosomes they happen to have, likewise the same is true for those who commits the murders.  

Aside from the odd case by case basis it's not because of gender or something as broad and disingenuous as toxic masculinity it's because there are a lot of sh!th3ads out there and being that there are 7 billion people on this planet, it's no co-incidence that so many of them are male. 

There isn't a way to solve this issue as bad people will always be there. That's an unfortunate fact I'm afraid. There's ways to mitigate it, education, tougher sentences etc However casting blame on half the worlds population for the actions of a very small minority of complete wrong uns for their own independent actions is wrong and will end up doing more harm than good. 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

What is it with this modern obsession with disregarding everyone's individual agency and categorizing huge, diverse groups of people into convenient, simple boxes based on the most superficial things like gender, skin color etc? Is it because it's fashionable and trendy or because people just don't like thinking too hard about things and always want a simple answer?

 

This type of thing happens because unfortunately there are a lot of b4st4rds out there, it's why so many women AND men are killed every year. A murder victim is a murder victim regardless of their DNA or what set of chromosomes they happen to have, likewise the same is true for those who commits the murders.  

Aside from the odd case by case basis it's not because of gender or something as broad and disingenuous as toxic masculinity it's because there are a lot of sh!th3ads out there and being that there are 7 billion people on this planet, it's no co-incidence that so many of them are male. 

There isn't a way to solve this issue as bad people will always be there. That's an unfortunate fact I'm afraid. There's ways to mitigate it, education, tougher sentences etc However casting blame on half the worlds population for the actions of a very small minority of complete wrong uns for their own independent actions is wrong and will end up doing more harm than good. 

 

I did post a similar but not exact point earlier. It is becoming almost paradoxical that the greater freedoms we crave are creating very grave consequences in a minority.

For instance. I assume nobody chooses to be a paedophile. There is something wrong in their brain that makes them do what they do. So it is unlikely that they will ever be properly fit beyond reasonable doubt to be allowed into the community. So why are they released?

But human rights activists would argue its their right once they have served their sentence.

But what about the rights of the public? Women say they don't feel safe and that is not right. So why are rapists ever released? It doesn't appear to me that its making women safer.

But we are at a place in human development where everyone gets a second chance except the victim.

 

[The Real Buh 3,423]

13 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

What is it with this modern obsession with disregarding everyone's individual agency and categorizing huge, diverse groups of people into convenient, simple boxes based on the most superficial things like gender, skin color etc? Is it because it's fashionable and trendy or because people just don't like thinking too hard about things and always want a simple answer?

 

This type of thing happens because unfortunately there are a lot of b4st4rds out there, it's why so many women AND men are killed every year. A murder victim is a murder victim regardless of their DNA or what set of chromosomes they happen to have, likewise the same is true for those who commits the murders.  

Aside from the odd case by case basis it's not because of gender or something as broad and disingenuous as toxic masculinity it's because there are a lot of sh!th3ads out there and being that there are 7 billion people on this planet, it's no co-incidence that so many of them are male. 

There isn't a way to solve this issue as bad people will always be there. That's an unfortunate fact I'm afraid. There's ways to mitigate it, education, tougher sentences etc However casting blame on half the worlds population for the actions of a very small minority of complete wrong uns for their own independent actions is wrong and will end up doing more harm than good. 

 

It’s the hard left, they want the death of the individual.

they are weak individuals, so they group into attributes. It’s class war. It’s what caused all those millions of people to starve in the Soviet Union they conveniently forget about.

they can’t compete in a traditional hierarchy because they aren’t able to compete. Take a look at the males calling for the end of “toxic masculinity”, yeah, look at the state of them. Of course they want the end of masculinity look at them.

my advise to women would be beware weak men. Weak men lash out, weak men are violent. Hitler was weak, Stalin was weak. Just take male feminists, “allies”they always end up being rapists. Always. It’s uncanny.

The Diet Coke communists on here should be ashamed of themselves that they become so individually weak. They are the problem.

just take a look at this latest “reclaim the streets movement social media profiles. Lots of “death to capitalism” talk on there. It’s just the exact same people that have screwed up the green movement, Black Lives Matter you name it. Hard left anarchists.

Is there a social cause in this country that hasn’t been co-opted and ruined by these hard left maniacs? Have you considered that this tactic has caused you to lose every single significant political vote in this country for what appears to be an age? Do you believe the tories won’t win in a landslide at the next election?

the strong individual is the antidote to all this cross-sectional class warfare. The hard left will throw as many people as they can under the bus for political capital it makes me sick. I’ve said it before but if we could put all the hard right and hard left people in a warehouse together and just let them tear eachother to pieces the human race would benefit.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

violence against anyone is not acceptable, wherever it comes from. that we only ever dicuss this issue when something has happened, that we don't realise the states responsibility in this, is being ignorant of the issue. out of 55.000+ rape cases reported to the police, some 1465 cases were prosecuted. Currently lawyers are urging parents off using courts and some 42.000 cases, because they can't cope, parents are urged to minimise their use of courts, the judiciary system is at breaking point.

This comes at a time when the police has the powers to use criminals. commit murder and interrogation/torture to 'investigate' crimes, the bill has gone through parliament and all the safeguards suggested by the Lords have been voted out, with the help of the opposition who merely abstained and hence waved it through.

Another bill is proposed to give the police even greater powers to stop non violent demonstrations and this, with the help of Sir keir, I have no doubt at all, it will also be law soon, very likely before lock down is coming to an end.

Finally, since Jes Phillips has been so diligently reading out the names of unfortunate female victims of male violence in the HoC, where is the person who will read out the list of men who are dying at the hand of women? every 9 days a man somewhere is dying at the hand of a women, but when it happens, some find words to excuse such violence. It is roughly half of the women killed by men, but the key is domestic violence. Men are far more reluctant to report violence towards them and some rather commit suicide as an out, than to go to the police or fight back.

I have been brought up to never ever hit women and I feel that this debate should be had with those who have the powers to change it, not just ourselves.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

17 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

It’s the hard left, they want the death of the individual.

they are weak individuals, so they group into attributes. It’s class war. It’s what caused all those millions of people to starve in the Soviet Union they conveniently forget about.

they can’t compete in a traditional hierarchy because they aren’t able to compete. Take a look at the males calling for the end of “toxic masculinity”, yeah, look at the state of them. Of course they want the end of masculinity look at them.

my advise to women would be beware weak men. Weak men lash out, weak men are violent. Hitler was weak, Stalin was weak. Just take male feminists, “allies”they always end up being rapists. Always. It’s uncanny.

The Diet Coke communists on here should be ashamed of themselves that they become so individually weak. They are the problem.

just take a look at this latest “reclaim the streets movement social media profiles. Lots of “death to capitalism” talk on there. It’s just the exact same people that have screwed up the green movement, Black Lives Matter you name it. Hard left anarchists.

Is there a social cause in this country that hasn’t been co-opted and ruined by these hard left maniacs? Have you considered that this tactic has caused you to lose every single significant political vote in this country for what appears to be an age? Do you believe the tories won’t win in a landslide at the next election?

the strong individual is the antidote to all this cross-sectional class warfare. The hard left will throw as many people as they can under the bus for political capital it makes me sick. I’ve said it before but if we could put all the hard right and hard left people in a warehouse together and just let them tear eachother to pieces the human race would benefit.

I've read some tosh on this forum before but this post is truly despicable.

"Take a look at the males calling for the end of “toxic masculinity”, yeah, look at the state of them. Of course they want the end of masculinity look at them."

Toxic masculinity != masculinity. Not all masculinity is toxic. Strength is not toxic, application of that strength to intimidate or cause harm to others is. Speaking out is not toxic, speaking out to belittle or dismiss others is. 

Taking a stand against violence in general and violence towards women specifically is not a bastion of the "hard left", you McCarthyist moron. It should be the bastion of anyone with a shred of decency and compassion, and the ability to look at the statistics and the sheer volume of women speaking out of the last 24-48 hours and realise that there is much we can help do in society to make it a better place to benefit ALL. As for "beware of weak men" that's great advice, how do you identify them in the street? Do they all have a big green neon sign above their heads women should be looking out for? If all the sexual assaulters and rapists had a huge red arrow above them at all times I imagine women would feel a lot safer, it's the fact that you cannot tell who the risks are that means women have to treat ALL men like a potential threat. THAT's the problem. 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

How do you identify weak men

look in the mirror to start with

And strength isn’t how much you can lift, could you be more one dimensional?

It's an "easy block" from me.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Canary Wundaboy

[The Real Buh 3,423]

5 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

It's an "easy block" from me.

Truth hurts. Take the path of the individual if you can or you’ll end up like this guy.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

11 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Truth hurts. Take the path of the individual if you can or you’ll end up like this guy.

Its funny that your hard right position and your supporters are the ones who want to bring back hanging etc but probably number most of the protagonists in your ranks.

You think you are funny. Most of us think you are sad.

[The Real Buh 3,423]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Its funny that your hard right position and your supporters are the ones who want to bring back hanging etc but probably number most of the protagonists in your ranks.

You think you are funny. Most of us think you are sad.

In what way am I remotely, demonstratively hard right? I know it feels good when you type it but it’s not true or backup-able.

Then again, evidence or accountability or anything like that isn’t really in your guys’ wheelhouse.

I abhor the political fringes, left and right, I’m allowed to do that. That’s my right as an individual. You should try some independent thought out and see if you like it.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

In what way am I remotely, demonstratively hard right? I know it feels good when you type it but it’s not true or backup-able.

Then again, evidence or accountability or anything like that isn’t really in your guys’ wheelhouse.

I abhor the political fringes, left and right, I’m allowed to do that. That’s my right as an individual. You should try some independent thought out and see if you like it.

But you seem happy to pigeon hole everyone else.

What you consider to be the attributes of a man may well come from your assertion that you are an individual. 

But there are no attributes that make it inevitable that anyone is a man.

Canary Wundaboy was making a genuine attempt, including his wife's opinion, to describe his feelings about the treatment of women.

To make remarks about him as a man in the way you did is exactly what the debate is about. He has become a victim and you a perpetrator by your words.

 

[The Real Buh 3,423]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

But you seem happy to pigeon hole everyone else.

What you consider to be the attributes of a man may well come from your assertion that you are an individual. 

But there are no attributes that make it inevitable that anyone is a man.

Canary Wundaboy was making a genuine attempt, including his wife's opinion, to describe his feelings about the treatment of women.

To make remarks about him as a man in the way you did is exactly what the debate is about. He has become a victim and you a perpetrator by your words.

 

He’s demonstrated himself to be weak. Like I said, look at the social feeds of the anti-male movement on this matter, it’s all anti-capitalist far left stuff. It’s the same generic politics that pervades the extinction rebellion stuff, the Black Lives Matter stuff it’s all coming from the same place. Pushing a far left class war to further the political aims of far left, it didn’t end well when they tried it before, did it?

 

[A Load of Squit 5,135]

He reminds me of this exchange from Reggie Perrin.

[Jimmy is explaining to Reggie what kinds of people his secret army will be against]

Jimmy Anderson:
Wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, "Play For Today", Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants - why do you think Windsor Castle is ringed with Chinese restaurants?

Reginald Perrin:
You realise the sort of people you're going to attract, don't you, Jimmy? Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, racialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, ****-bashers, anybody-bashers, rear Admirals, queer admirals, Vice Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo-loyalists, crypto-loyalists.

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

It’s the hard left, they want the death of the individual.

they are weak individuals, so they group into attributes. It’s class war. It’s what caused all those millions of people to starve in the Soviet Union they conveniently forget about.

they can’t compete in a traditional hierarchy because they aren’t able to compete. Take a look at the males calling for the end of “toxic masculinity”, yeah, look at the state of them. Of course they want the end of masculinity look at them.

my advise to women would be beware weak men. Weak men lash out, weak men are violent. Hitler was weak, Stalin was weak. Just take male feminists, “allies”they always end up being rapists. Always. It’s uncanny.

The Diet Coke communists on here should be ashamed of themselves that they become so individually weak. They are the problem.

just take a look at this latest “reclaim the streets movement social media profiles. Lots of “death to capitalism” talk on there. It’s just the exact same people that have screwed up the green movement, Black Lives Matter you name it. Hard left anarchists.

Is there a social cause in this country that hasn’t been co-opted and ruined by these hard left maniacs? Have you considered that this tactic has caused you to lose every single significant political vote in this country for what appears to be an age? Do you believe the tories won’t win in a landslide at the next election?

the strong individual is the antidote to all this cross-sectional class warfare. The hard left will throw as many people as they can under the bus for political capital it makes me sick. I’ve said it before but if we could put all the hard right and hard left people in a warehouse together and just let them tear eachother to pieces the human race would benefit.

Can't agree with much of this at all. The likes of Hitler and Stalin represent a kind of misplaced macho-male toxic posturing that is usually framed as toxic masculinity. The difference there was that they subjugated a whole country under it rather than be an irritant / reason for women to feel unsafe. I actually agree that women should beware weak men, but would say that it's the weak men that engage in the sort of behaviour that is generally considered to be "toxic masculinity".

This is not about the "death of the individual". It is about being a shade more considerate in your behaviour.

[The Real Buh 3,423]

38 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Can't agree with much of this at all. The likes of Hitler and Stalin represent a kind of misplaced macho-male toxic posturing that is usually framed as toxic masculinity. The difference there was that they subjugated a whole country under it rather than be an irritant / reason for women to feel unsafe. I actually agree that women should beware weak men, but would say that it's the weak men that engage in the sort of behaviour that is generally considered to be "toxic masculinity".

This is not about the "death of the individual". It is about being a shade more considerate in your behaviour.

The death of the individual would benefit weak men. Their position within a social hierarchy, any social hierarchy, is improved if strong individuals are held back by being defined by the sum of their physical attributes (race, sex etc).

 

I believe the reason communism and any ideology that’s too far left has never really kicked off in this country is that the baseline personality, call it the “blitz spirit” our general sarcasm etc basically the collection of memes that hold and bind us together that aren’t related to class or anything (cups of tea, pubs etc) is skewed towards individualism and not collectivism. The type of weak minded collectivism that gave rise to the nazis and the eastern block communists just doesn’t sit right in our collective cultural minds and that’s a good thing. It’s also something we need to always keep an eye on.

Collectivism is the domain of the weak individual. Beware weak men and women, they are far more dangerous than strong men and women.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

It’s the hard left, they want the death of the individual.

they are weak individuals, so they group into attributes. It’s class war. It’s what caused all those millions of people to starve in the Soviet Union they conveniently forget about.

they can’t compete in a traditional hierarchy because they aren’t able to compete. Take a look at the males calling for the end of “toxic masculinity”, yeah, look at the state of them. Of course they want the end of masculinity look at them.

my advise to women would be beware weak men. Weak men lash out, weak men are violent. Hitler was weak, Stalin was weak. Just take male feminists, “allies”they always end up being rapists. Always. It’s uncanny.

The Diet Coke communists on here should be ashamed of themselves that they become so individually weak. They are the problem.

just take a look at this latest “reclaim the streets movement social media profiles. Lots of “death to capitalism” talk on there. It’s just the exact same people that have screwed up the green movement, Black Lives Matter you name it. Hard left anarchists.

Is there a social cause in this country that hasn’t been co-opted and ruined by these hard left maniacs? Have you considered that this tactic has caused you to lose every single significant political vote in this country for what appears to be an age? Do you believe the tories won’t win in a landslide at the next election?

the strong individual is the antidote to all this cross-sectional class warfare. The hard left will throw as many people as they can under the bus for political capital it makes me sick. I’ve said it before but if we could put all the hard right and hard left people in a warehouse together and just let them tear eachother to pieces the human race would benefit.

and the problem is you could nearly cut and past this but with the word right instead of left and you'd be about there with violence in the BAME community.

The problem as Zimmermann says is sweeping generalisations, toxic hate and extremism.

The way Piers Morgan was banging on about free speech this week and Tommy Robinson and co do is completely comparable to how ISIS sympathisers like Anjem Chowdury and Abu Hamza were moaning. Perhaps these types of people need to look in the mirror a bit harder.

[The Real Buh 3,423]

8 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

and the problem is you could nearly cut and past this but with the word right instead of left and you'd be about there with violence in the BAME community.

The problem as Zimmermann says is sweeping generalisations, toxic hate and extremism.

The way Piers Morgan was banging on about free speech this week and Tommy Robinson and co do is completely comparable to how ISIS sympathisers like Anjem Chowdury and Abu Hamza were moaning. Perhaps these types of people need to look in the mirror a bit harder.

Like I said, I abhor the political fringes and I’m pretty open about that. I’ll take shots at both sides. 
 

it all comes down to collectivism though. It’s like a short circuit in our primal brains and it’s been used to do some horrendous stuff over human history in the name of pretty much everything you can think of.

Different sides of the same coin.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

12 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The death of the individual would benefit weak men. Their position within a social hierarchy, any social hierarchy, is improved if strong individuals are held back by being defined by the sum of their physical attributes (race, sex etc).

 

I believe the reason communism and any ideology that’s too far left has never really kicked off in this country is that the baseline personality, call it the “blitz spirit” our general sarcasm etc basically the collection of memes that hold and bind us together that aren’t related to class or anything (cups of tea, pubs etc) is skewed towards individualism and not collectivism. The type of weak minded collectivism that gave rise to the nazis and the eastern block communists just doesn’t sit right in our collective cultural minds and that’s a good thing. It’s also something we need to always keep an eye on.

Collectivism is the domain of the weak individual. Beware weak men and women, they are far more dangerous than strong men and women.

You plead for the individual and use the words of a stereotype. The Blitz spirit was a collective spirit. 

So admit it, you are as hypocritical as the rest of us.

[The Real Buh 3,423]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

You plead for the individual and use the words of a stereotype. The Blitz spirit was a collective spirit. 

So admit it, you are as hypocritical as the rest of us.

I was just trying to summarise generic british psyche. Keep clutching at straws though as I brutally define your life and politics. 
 

individualism vs collectivism is all it’s ever been, just different brands. The fact that some on here prefer collectivism is absolute no shock to me at all.

[Herman 9,717]

Quite a depressing piece by the brilliant Marina Hyde.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/12/what-happened-women-uk-harassed-street

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

27 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The death of the individual would benefit weak men. Their position within a social hierarchy, any social hierarchy, is improved if strong individuals are held back by being defined by the sum of their physical attributes (race, sex etc).

 

I believe the reason communism and any ideology that’s too far left has never really kicked off in this country is that the baseline personality, call it the “blitz spirit” our general sarcasm etc basically the collection of memes that hold and bind us together that aren’t related to class or anything (cups of tea, pubs etc) is skewed towards individualism and not collectivism. The type of weak minded collectivism that gave rise to the nazis and the eastern block communists just doesn’t sit right in our collective cultural minds and that’s a good thing. It’s also something we need to always keep an eye on.

Collectivism is the domain of the weak individual. Beware weak men and women, they are far more dangerous than strong men and women.

Except being fundamentally decent in behaviour and rectifying a known toxic brand of such behaviour is not remotely the "death of the individual".

I really struggle to see how a call for some degree of civility in behaviour could ever be construed as collectivism.

[horsefly 4,287]

3 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Aside from the odd case by case basis it's not because of gender or something as broad and disingenuous as toxic masculinity it's because there are a lot of sh!th3ads out there and being that there are 7 billion people on this planet, it's no co-incidence that so many of them are male. 

Sorry but this is pure poppycock. It's your comments that are disingenuous not the concept of toxic masculinity. In the UK men perpetrate 90% of murders (https://www.tutor2u.net/sociology/reference/statistics-on-gender-and-crime) and account for 74% of  violent crime generally (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/overviewofviolentcrimeandsexualoffences). Those figures should be expected to be 50% if the gender/sex of the individual is irrelevant as you claim. Perhaps you should listen to women a bit more and understand the reality of living everyday with an expectation that you need to be prepared for male harassment, abuse or violence.