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norwichsteve

Will next time be different in the PL?

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If and when we go up.. We're playing basically the same style with largely the same players (some have improved with age).

 

Can we do a Leeds this time around?

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Nope. As if we don’t retain our best players - and we are going to lose at least 2 - we won’t be able to compete against the physical bottom 2/3 of the division on an above average skills basis. 

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I don't necessarily agree. We've changed quite dramatically how we use the two defensive midfielders and our goals for and against columns are dramatically different from two years. We have more clean sheets with 13 games remaining than we did in the whole season two years ago.

We are going to need to recruit well, 5 or 6 players including at centre-half, right back, defensive midfield, no.10 and striker. There will be an opportunity to do that with significant finance available should Max and/or Emi leave. 

From then on it's still an uphill battle but we do have some very good players capable of stepping up. It is possible for us to make a much better fist of it. 

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Our problems in the EPL are largely a lack of physicality. If we sell a couple of our best players we need to buy size and athleticism because that is what the EPL is all about. 

As good as he is technically I wonder whether Emi has the temperament or the physical presence. He was poor last time, constantly dispossessed, left on his backside waving his arms and giving goals away. 

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49 minutes ago, norwichsteve said:

If and when we go up.. We're playing basically the same style with largely the same players (some have improved with age).

 

Can we do a Leeds this time around?

Yes if we spend like Leeds.

We have to believe we will do better than both the clubs going up with us. That leaves one incumbent, such as Burnley or Brighton slipping up.

No point going up if you don't believe or try to stay there.

 

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2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Yes if we spend like Leeds.

We have to believe we will do better than both the clubs going up with us. That leaves one incumbent, such as Burnley or Brighton slipping up.

No point going up if you don't believe or try to stay there.

 

You have to believe that we can finish above Brentford/Swansea/Watford and then, as you say, one other. Who knows what sort of basket case Newcastle might be next season, if they stay up. Then as you say there's Brighton and Burnley. 

It will be difficult, it always is. What I do firmly believe is that the current management structure is improving us year by year and that's all you can really ask for. 

I definitely agree that of the 5 or 6 signings we will undoubtedly need in the summer, we need to recruit, especially in midfield, some players who have ability and athleticism. That's what is going to cost the big bucks. If Max and/or Emi goes I would expect the finance will be there to fund a few big signings. We need that Doucoure mould CDM and a bit more physicality in the back four wouldn't go amiss. 

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In Farke and Webber I trust.

3 seasons in the championship, each one an improvement on the last. No reason to think anything other than another season in the PL, Farke and Webber will have learnt and be ready for the challenge ahead.

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Of course it will be extremely tough if we go up, but one thing you can guarantee is that neither Webber nor Farke will imperil the future survival of the club by spending money we can't afford. We could have easily blown £40m+ on Amadou and Duda last time round, luckily we had them on loan instead. Portsmouth, Bolton, Sunderland, QPR etc, etc ought to be enough warning to fans calling for them to throw money recklessly at the attempt to retain premier league status. And but for the inexplicable failure of VAR Aston Villa would have found themselves in a parlous state needing to sell off all their top playing assets. 

Some fans find themselves enraged by the "lack of ambition" in City's stated aim to be a top 26 club; I find myself reassured by the savvy thinking that lies behind it. Yes we will need to strengthen, but only within the means that ensures the club survives to be able to retain a top 26 position should relegation happen again. There is a reason why we're probably the only team in the Championship able to hold on to proven premier league standard players, and retain the financial and footballing clout to bring in Gibson and Giannoulis on loan to buy deals. 

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If we get our recruitment right it will absolutely be different to last time. Plus everybody will have learned from last season, both on and off the pitch. If recruitment is inadequate again then expect a similar season. 

If we go up of course! 

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Every reason to think we can be better than last time. There were too many setbacks last time, injuries to start with, then the lockdown effect which stymied us more than most.  Anything is possible imo and yes, even to finish near the top. That isn't a prediction btw, it's a belief it can be done.

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Not if we sell our best players. It’s too much to ask for us to recruit and bed in replacements for Emi, Aarons and Cantwell at that level. Losing Skipp is going to be a big blow assuming he’s not back with us next year.

Add Krul, Pukki and Gibson to the 3 above we have the core of a PL quality side. We need to build more around that.

We need to strengthen what we have rather than  cash in this summer if we want to take real shot at survival IMO.

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9 hours ago, norwichsteve said:

If and when we go up.. We're playing basically the same style with largely the same players (some have improved with age).

 

Can we do a Leeds this time around?

If . Leave it at that for now. 

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Worse. 

Personnel wise we'd be weaker. 

Performance wise we're way off the level of 18/19. 

All the teams already in there have strengthened. 

Very real chance we'd lose Buendia and Aarons. 

There's no way we'd invest. 

 

Major positive is that we'd be a little more tough and resilient. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Performance wise we're way off the level of 18/19. 

This simply isn’t true.

Excitement doesn’t mean better. We are a better all round team this year. Gibson the best CB we’ve had in a long time and Skipp partnered with another deeper thinking midfielder (rather than Vrancic) shows that Farkes focus has shifted more to a solid base.

Performance wise defensively we miles ahead of 18/19. Attacking we have Cantwell added to the already prolific duo of Emi and Pukki. Add in flashes of brilliance from Vrancic and I’d argue we’re better on an attacking sense too. 
 

We have much more control of games this season which was very much the trait of Farkes Dortmund ll team. It feels like he’s really starting to get what he wants out of his City side.

Edited by Fiery Zac
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Posted (edited)

Who knows? It will depend upon comings and goings.

There are a few positive reasons why we should do better.

 

The experience of last time being foremost in this .... as outlined by Stuart Webber. Farke learns well, usually quickly, sometimes more slowly.

Our scouting and buying history is (well) above average. Gianoullis being a decent example. He may not have set the world on fire yet, but he is a footballer.

We should not likely experience the horrendous and ultimately costly selective injury crisis of last season.

We have a deeper well of youth to call upon ..... as back-up probably, but who knows? Mumba, Martin, Fawemno?

There are some flounderers in that league who will survive this season but look destined to struggle next time around. Newcastle have been mentioned, Burnley are seemingly in decline and, for some reason, I am never able to particularly rate Villa.

It will be good to have another dose of acclaim, fame and finance, whatever happens. 

Edited by BroadstairsR

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We've got the basis of a team that struggled very badly last time around, so unless there is some serious money spent (which is probably unlikely) the answer is no.

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We'll likely make about 70 million off Emi and Aarons, plus the additional Prem income, there's no decent reason for us not to spend a bit more money this time. I'm hoping we will spend about 40 mill, wisely. 

So with good investment, I think we will stay up.

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Posted (edited)

I'm already looking forward to promotion in 2022/23😀

Edited by ricardo
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I think it will be tough.  We are better (in terms of gathering points) that is due to our improvements in defence (Skipp, Gibson, and the rest of the defence, and crucially Todd has been excellent.

Therefore we need to recruit  and sell in a way which improves the talent in the side.  So if Skipp, Max, Emi, and Todd leave it will be a lot of change to manage and see an improvement.  It will be interesting to see if Emi or Todd hasveshown enough for an established team to spend £30m buying them.  If a Europa league level side does not come in for either they may decide that they would rather stay.  Fingers crossed.  Replacing Skipp is crucial as well.

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10 hours ago, Ramrod said:

As good as he is technically I wonder whether Emi has the temperament or the physical presence. He was poor last time, constantly dispossessed, left on his backside waving his arms and giving goals away. 

Possibly the worst take I've ever read on this forum. And that is some accolade. 

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11 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I don't necessarily agree. We've changed quite dramatically how we use the two defensive midfielders and our goals for and against columns are dramatically different from two years. We have more clean sheets with 13 games remaining than we did in the whole season two years ago.

We are going to need to recruit well, 5 or 6 players including at centre-half, right back, defensive midfield, no.10 and striker. There will be an opportunity to do that with significant finance available should Max and/or Emi leave. 

From then on it's still an uphill battle but we do have some very good players capable of stepping up. It is possible for us to make a much better fist of it. 

Although I agree with that in principle there is also the not insignificant matter of a c£25M Covid 'loss' this season. Any cash received from either / both boys will be channelled to that end first (surely?). Even if we could (somehow) 'ringfence' that loss and hope that future PL trading profits (if any) would cover that, £35M will no way buy you the 5 or 6 you mention in my opinion at least not at the level of quality needed. Issue we have already is that c£7M is already going to 'leave the building' for our Greek fullback as we are committed to purchase are we not for reportedly '8M Euros'??  So the '£35M' is immediately down to c£28M. The signing of Gibson is likely to be a top priority but there again Burnley will play hardball and try and get their money back (£15M). no-one will pay that much of course but we would be hard pressed to cut a deal for anything less than about £8M I would guess. You can easily see where the Max / Emi money (if only one was sold) would quickly drain away before the squad was enhanced in anyway by new additions.   

Honestly not trying to be negative and in some respects I think we are better equipped than 2019. I would imagine that despite public statements to the contrary, we will be actively looking to offload one of the 'Crown Jewels' to provide some pot of money to spend. You can forget about ..........'spending the TV money'. That will be swallowed up by hefty promotion bonuses and hefty wage increases first and foremost like last time.  Another potential positive is that our growing standing in the game (Mourinho and Guardiola for example) could well enable us to land a gem as a season loan like Skipp has been this season. We can easily beat off many clubs to land this kind of deal as rival managers (on the whole) like us as a club and trust us to develop their players. Believe me that may give us a significant advantage over some rivals.      

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wardogz said:

We'll likely make about 70 million off Emi and Aarons, plus the additional Prem income, there's no decent reason for us not to spend a bit more money this time. I'm hoping we will spend about 40 mill, wisely. 

So with good investment, I think we will stay up.

There is absolutley no way we coud lose Emi and Max and replace them plus our other shortfalls with £40 Million.

£40 Million is 3 players tops.

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I expect the losses due to Covid will affect all teams. So there might be some players going cheap because some clubs need to sell them to cover their losses. At least we won't be in that situation. So overall I don't know whether it will be a help or a hinderance

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Plan for relegation again is the only sensible path to take.  Recruitment of enough PL players to make survival more than a possibility will take more finance than is available to City.  Without the gems Max and Emi little chance of success even with them probab;ly impossible.  Suggest when we go up we don't do what we did previously and spend most of what we made in PL on new contracts.  Promise new improved contracts if there is no relegation.  Ensure every significant player has 2 years on contract, this may make my above suggestion a ridiculous one.  But we want to reap the dividend of a PL season not as Webber has stated p it up the wall as previously.  

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2 hours ago, ricardo said:

I'm already looking forward to promotion in 2022/23😀

My thoughts entirely - whilst we strive to be top 26 our realistic range is probably 16-26. So need to be at the top of that range.

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What's the rationale behind Skipp not coming in for another year? 

I'd have thought he'd be better off staying here and playing every week rather than going back to Spurs to warm the bench

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The optimist in me says 'yes' - the realist in me says 'no'. 

As Farke said last time, we basically need everything to go right (like it did for Sheff Utd last season) for us to stay up. Instead an awful lot went wrong, particularly the never ending catalogue of injuries to our defence.

Still, lets just get there first. 

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