Do Your Remember the Good Ol' Days When..............

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

Numpties on here used to bellyache about zonal marking at corners? 🤣 😅

[hogesar 10,762]

14 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Numpties on here used to bellyache about zonal marking at corners? 🤣 😅

@Bill thought he was a tactical genius compared to Farke. Our defending at set pieces is still zonal and we've been excellent at defending them this season.

[Branston Pickle 4,149]

I do wish we were a little more threatening from our own set pieces, but we have certainly got better at defending them.  They can be worth a fair number of goals each season so I hope we look at our attacking plays a bit more for next season

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

Let's see what we're like at defending them in the Prem eh? 😉. On a serious note there's been a slight change to a more part zonal, part man defending of them this season. 

As for attacking ones, I'm surprised we don't try a few more short corner routines given how we like short passing triangles, and aren't exactly great in the air. 

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

@Bill thought he was a tactical genius compared to Farke. Our defending at set pieces is still zonal and we've been excellent at defending them this season.

oh dear, you haven't been watching the games have you

that nonsense has been dropped

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Numpties on here used to bellyache about zonal marking at corners? 🤣 😅

Why are you stirring it? We are all enjoying today so you cannot accuse someone at a later date of belly aching.

Today was a mixture of both I thought.

[hogesar 10,762]

1 minute ago, Bill said:

oh dear, you haven't been watching the games have you

that nonsense has been dropped

Someone tell me this guy isn't serious. He genuinely thinks we no longer zonal mark. I mean we've always done some man marking alongside zonal ever since Farke came in but please, please someone tell me Bill is pulling my leg?

[Van wink 2,994]

Billy's tactical mentor

 

[Bill 1,788]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Someone tell me this guy isn't serious. He genuinely thinks we no longer zonal mark. I mean we've always done some man marking alongside zonal ever since Farke came in but please, please someone tell me Bill is pulling my leg?

  a case of the man is drunk. but only in some parts

 

ps good to see City players stayed in their formation again today 🤪

 

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

26 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why are you stirring it? We are all enjoying today so you cannot accuse someone at a later date of belly aching.

Today was a mixture of both I thought.

Stirring it????? Really????????????????

There are posters who come on here and whinge and bellyache when things (in their opinion) aren't right. When they are conclusively proved wrong they hardly ever come back and say: "Hold my hands up, I was wrong about that."  So sometimes people like my good self will gently point it out to them. 

To put a positive slant on it: Isn't it great to see how our management team and players have improved the way they use zonal marking to defend at corners?

[hogesar 10,762]

1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Stirring it????? Really????????????????

There are posters who come on here and whinge and bellyache when things (in their opinion) aren't right. When they are conclusively proved wrong they hardly ever come back and say: "Hold my hands up, I was wrong about that."  So sometimes people like my good self will gently point it out to them. 

To put a positive slant on it: Isn't it great to see how our management team and players have improved the way they use zonal marking to defend at corners?

This is so often missed by people that accuse you of stirring it. For example, if you defend the management during a difficult time because you think you can see a positive change (like 2 seasons ago at the start, losing by 3 goals to Leeds at home but actually didn't play badly) - you get ridiculed, insulted etc.

Then if you give a little back because you've been proven conclusively right (and so has the management) - you're accused of stirring things or revelling in being right or some rubbish.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Stirring it????? Really????????????????

There are posters who come on here and whinge and bellyache when things (in their opinion) aren't right. When they are conclusively proved wrong they hardly ever come back and say: "Hold my hands up, I was wrong about that."  So sometimes people like my good self will gently point it out to them. 

To put a positive slant on it: Isn't it great to see how our management team and players have improved the way they use zonal marking to defend at corners?

I must admit I thought we did both today. Rotherham were bunching players at several set pieces and we marked each bunch with an equal amount of defenders.

Equally we allowed a corner to go straight in which was disallowed for a foul on Kenny.

But no-one can deny we are much improved at set pieces.

[Ian 1,211]

1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Numpties on here used to bellyache about zonal marking at corners? 🤣 😅

The fact all anyone seems to disagree about is whether Farke is the Second Coming of Christ, or a moron who doesn't know how to fill in a substitution form, is probably a sign the club is doing alright these days!

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,789]

If you think we are defending  the same way as we did before , you are wrong I'm afraid .
People “bellyached” because we conceded too many goals from restarts

Now we don’t . And people don’t bellyache. 
 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Graham Paddons Beard

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

This is so often missed by people that accuse you of stirring it. For example, if you defend the management during a difficult time because you think you can see a positive change (like 2 seasons ago at the start, losing by 3 goals to Leeds at home but actually didn't play badly) - you get ridiculed, insulted etc.

Then if you give a little back because you've been proven conclusively right (and so has the management) - you're accused of stirring things or revelling in being right or some rubbish.

So why not take the moral high ground? Or else it just becomes endless and spoils another good day.

[Bill 1,788]

9 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

If you think we are defending  the same way as we did before , you are wrong I'm afraid .
People “bellyached” because we conceded too many goals from restarts

Now we don’t . And people don’t bellyache.

Thank you, and as most will understand. the OP was not about any reasoned thought on todays game, but an all too obvious attempt to provoke some kind of 'flame war' - I know who is behind this, just as I know the two who were both checking their messages at the same time. before then stirring th post further

otherwise todays game actually showed how the zonal nonsense is being slowly dropped, just as the tippity tap around the penalty box is - whereby the emphasis now is on getting the ball into the danger area, rather than retain possession

similarly Krul is no longer adverse to 'hoofing' the ball upfield now...where previously it was a total no-no

the above is not about 'formations' either - it is about adapting and changing tactics to meet the opposition threats, the same reason players can be found all over the pitch rather than staying in some kind if red arrows formation ie the position players can be found in at any given moment us in relation to opposition players not their own players

however, as has been stated by others that it does seem odd (or not) that the same posters regularly see this forum as nothing more than a chance to 'have a bit of sport'

as seen in this thread, and with the contributions of 'wardogz'

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

If you think we are defending  the same way as we did before , you are wrong I'm afraid .
People “bellyached” because we conceded too many goals from restarts

Now we don’t . And people don’t bellyache. 
 

 

 

Sorry GPB, but I'm not wrong. We are defending corners zonally just as we did before. We're doing it a whole lot better, but we're still defending zonally. 

Now there's an awful lot of people on this board who really don't understand what zonal defending at corners actually is, but that's not my fault.

As an aside, should we get promoted back to the PL we'll start conceding goals from corners again - and I can promise you that some people will then come back on here and start bellyaching about zonal marking at corners. 

[hogesar 10,762]

2 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Sorry GPB, but I'm not wrong. We are defending corners zonally just as we did before. We're doing it a whole lot better, but we're still defending zonally. 

Now there's an awful lot of people on this board who really don't understand what zonal defending at corners actually is, but that's not my fault.

As an aside, should we get promoted back to the PL we'll start conceding goals from corners again - and I can promise you that some people will then come back on here and start bellyaching about zonal marking at corners. 

100% 

Does @Bill genuinely believe we don't zonal mark anymore?

[Jools 584]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

100% 

Does @Bill genuinely believe we don't zonal mark anymore?

We don't do the diabolical defensive zonal marking to the extent we did in the Premier last season --- Go watch the first game of last season against Liverpool -- Anyone with a modicum of football knowledge knew we'd struggle to stay up after that initial match.

There's barely a hint of that extent of defensive zonal marking this season and thank f*ck for that...

Farke will have learned a lesson and we will remain in the Premier next season minus the zonal marking b0ll0cks 👍

 

 

[Jools 584]

5 hours ago, hogesar said:

Someone tell me this guy isn't serious. He genuinely thinks we no longer zonal mark. I mean we've always done some man marking alongside zonal ever since Farke came in but please, please someone tell me Bill is pulling my leg?

Man marking and and zonal marking are two different concepts of the game, hoegsar..

Have you ever played football or are you just a spectator? 

[hogesar 10,762]

37 minutes ago, Jools said:

Man marking and and zonal marking are two different concepts of the game, hoegsar..

Have you ever played football or are you just a spectator? 

Yes I've played. Not at any decent level.

Yes they are two different concepts. However they can be and are combined. It has a couple different names, one being mixed zonal marking.

I like the fact you were sarcastic, because it makes you look even more dense when I politely point you in the direction of some basic research.

This one even has pictures so you can avoid some of the bigger words 🙂

https://www.google.com/amp/s/worldsoccertalk.com/2013/10/01/the-differences-between-zonal-marking-man-marking-and-mixed-zonal-marking/amp/

This one goes a bit more in depth.

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/tactical-theory/tactical-theory-analysis-on-marking-systems-tactical-analysis-tactics

 

Every day is a learning day @Jools

 

[lake district canary 4,830]

What a thread this is. The simple truth is we haven't changed anything tactically, we are just doing what we did before but are doing it better than before.   Players are simply more pro-active than re-active at set pieces - ie quicker to the challenge -  so trying to pin what we do down by using labels is just muddying the water.  We are just better at it.  Simples.

[Newtopia 573]

7 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

What a thread this is. The simple truth is we haven't changed anything tactically, we are just doing what we did before but are doing it better than before.   Players are simply more pro-active than re-active at set pieces - ie quicker to the challenge -  so trying to pin what we do down by using labels is just muddying the water.  We are just better at it.  Simples.

It is also worth saying, Hanley and Gibson are excellent defenders in terms of attacking the ball when the ball comes into the zone they are defending.  As you say our nippy players are marking better and reacting better at the breakdown.  If we go up it will be interesting to see how they will do.

[hogesar 10,762]

11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

What a thread this is. The simple truth is we haven't changed anything tactically, we are just doing what we did before but are doing it better than before.   Players are simply more pro-active than re-active at set pieces - ie quicker to the challenge -  so trying to pin what we do down by using labels is just muddying the water.  We are just better at it.  Simples.

100% 

We still play it around the penalty area contrary to what @Bill says, but as you rightly say, we are better at it. In fact some of our best goals in the recent 3 games have come from inviting the press on our centre backs in our own third and passing through it!

[king canary 8,754]

You can also factor in that recruitment focused more on athletic players so we aren't as short as previous seasons. Gibson and Giannoulis are both stronger in the air than Godfrey or Lewis, plus Skipp has a leap on him when needs be.

[Jools 584]

5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

The simple truth is we haven't changed anything tactically. 

The simple truth is Farke and the coaches don't do the diabolical defensive zonal marking to the extent we did in the Premier last season -- So yes, they have changed things tactically despite yours & hoegsar's amateur analysis...

'we are just doing what we did before but are doing it better than before' 😄 Good Lordy 

[hogesar 10,762]

9 hours ago, Jools said:

The simple truth is Farke and the coaches don't do the diabolical defensive zonal marking to the extent we did in the Premier last season -- So yes, they have changed things tactically despite yours & hoegsar's amateur analysis...

'we are just doing what we did before but are doing it better than before' 😄 Good Lordy 

Done some reading up on mixed zonal marking yet? Yknow, the concept you made out didn't exist?

If my analysis is amateur then f*ck knows what your is considering you claim what we are doing doesn't even exist!

We always have zonally marked but then man marked the main threats where possible. That hasn't changed. What has changed is we've got one taller full-back, two CBs fit who are good in the air, McLean who is good in the air and even Skipp has a good jump, and when he's played, Hugill offers a defensive physical presence.

Basically we can do better because of personnel, nothing to do with a fundamental change in tactics.

My advice? Before you try and come across as some tactical observational genius, have the self deprecation to do 5 minutes of basic bloody research. 🙂. Oh, and maybe watch a game or two.