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*****Official Match Thread v Rotherham*****

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1 minute ago, Downloads said:

I'm a glass half full kind of guy, but...

This seems a bit stupid, if you want some subs to come that makes you negative?

What's the point in having a forum if one can't give an opinion...

I agree with that. But why slate the manager for not agreeing?

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6 minutes ago, daly said:

No one is disputing Farke is a great Manager but cannot understand the logic in not bringing on subs earlier, it was obvious that a few players were drained. We hung on to win against a team currently third from bottom.  Going to Birmingham Tuesday on that pitch will be a struggle 

He brought subs on in the home game against Coventry and we conceded for a draw. Frankly I trust Farke to exercise his judgement, he ain't got much wrong. And how many chances did Rotherham have in that last 15 minutes?

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5 minutes ago, king canary said:

It's a football forum for discussion you berk. Someone disagrees with your opinion so we get Glenn Roeder 'missed your tenure as England manager' response. If you don't want to read opinions you disagree with on the football, can I suggest any other site on the Internet?

No problem with disagreement, and I don't have to resort to insults to get my point across.

What I do have is a problem with fans who seem to think someone like Farke doesn't know the basics of football management, like game management and making substitutions and proclaim it in such an arrogant and condescending manner.

As you say, it's a discussion forum and you are free to make whatever criticisms you like. Equally, I believe that makes me able to call such people out whenever I think it is appropriate. Or do you think you are free to say whatever you like without people responding?

If you think that makes me a "berk" then I think that perhaps you are the one who doesn't understand the concept of discussion within a forum.

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2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I agree with that. But why slate the manager for not agreeing?

Agree Nutty, we should be careful not to go overboard. Farke is doing an amazing job and nobody should say otherwise.

 

Edit: Having said that, i would say Vrancic should have come off earlier for someone who could have helped control the game more - but that's just a perspective, not a strong criticism...

Edited by Downloads

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25 minutes ago, pete said:

It was comfortable for you eh

It's football - you're not meant to be comfortable watching a football match you numpty!! If you want to be comfortable wrap yourself up in a warm blanket, make yourself a nice milky drink, close your eyes and drift off to sleep - until the end of the season would be nice. 

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11 minutes ago, king canary said:

It's a football forum for discussion you berk. Someone disagrees with your opinion so we get Glenn Roeder 'missed your tenure as England manager' response. If you don't want to read opinions you disagree with on the football, can I suggest any other site on the Internet?

So what was bizzare about Farkes decision then?

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Just now, Ian said:

No problem with disagreement, and I don't have to resort to insults to get my point across.

What I do have is a problem with fans who seem to think someone like Farke doesn't know the basics of football management, like game management and making substitutions and proclaim it in such an arrogant and condescending manner.

As you say, it's a discussion forum and you are free to make whatever criticisms you like. Equally, I believe that makes me able to call such people out whenever I think it is appropriate. Or do you think you are free to say whatever you like without people responding?

If you think that makes me a "berk" then I think that perhaps you are the one who doesn't understand the concept of discussion within a forum.

Strange that a bunch of posters are claiming that a forum is a chance to express an opinion(correct), but then spend a lot of time complaining when other posters express an opinion on their posts??

(This was after the result rather proved their opinion incorrect)

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"I've got an opinion and my primary school teacher told me opinions can't be wrong"

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Just now, WunderGelb said:

So what was bizzare about Farkes decision then?

Not making subs to react to Rotherham, a team we ripped apart in the first half and sit 35 points ahead, starting to become the better, more energetic team who looked more like to score the next goal.

I'm delighted we're top, relieved we won and ecstatic we have a great coach like Farke in charge.

In fact, I rate him so highly I think he's built a squad able to perform much better than we did in the second half today.

But hey, if you think clinging on to a 1-0 at home to Rotherham is the best we can do then that's fine. I happen to think Farke and his team can be better than that.

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1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

Why not vindicate while the game was still on?

Watch my team deservedly win and stretch the lead at the top of the table

vs

reply to some consistently repeated nonsense about Farkes poor game management

Hmm..?

 

I agree this is a forum for discussion and Farke is not perfect and has made mistakes. But I can’t understand the continued surprise and critisism at how he manages games. Even more surprising as we are streets ahead in terms of quality and actual position in the league.
 

He wants to keep a team that is performing on the pitch for as long as possible to get the result. With our often reported on training methods, why shouldn’t everyone play the full 90? It’s about getting the game won and our results are there to see.
 

Even more confusing is the lack of appreciation for Farke when he has made game changing substitutions. He knows what he’s doing in game. He’s proven in on numerous occasions.

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1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Strange that a bunch of posters are claiming that a forum is a chance to express an opinion(correct), but then spend a lot of time complaining when other posters express an opinion on their posts??

(This was after the result rather proved their opinion incorrect)

It doesn't prove an opinion is incorrect - Just to correct you. Nobody said if we don't make a sub we are definitely going to concede a goal. There is no correct/incorrect. Think about it.

 

And as far as giving an opinion - people are giving an opinion on a match, an opinion calling other posters negative is childish.

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14 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Do you not think our team, and indeed our coach, isn't better than having to cling on against a side we tore apart in the first half?

Sounds like you're being a bit hard on a manager and side that has got us to the top. Bloody pant pissers. 

Well, that made about as much sense as your usual posts I guess, so...

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Such a huge win. This was always going to be a hard slog of a game given how tough Rotherham usually make it for their opponents (and to be fair we did ourselves no favours spurring 3 or 4 great opportunities to make it more comfortable), but considering how other results have gone this ground out 1-0 win was so f*cking important. Real opportunity now with Birmingham and Wycombe next 2 games to give ourselves a huge advantage before we play Brentford. 

Thought Zimmermann filled in really well today. Have to admit I was a bit worried when I saw him on the team-sheet, he hasn't been overly convincing since he picked up that injury away at West Ham last season, but I thought he was generally very solid today. You could see what a huge difference not having Gibson made to our play today though. Rotherham knew Hanley wasn't comfortable going onto his left-foot so they forced him onto it as often as they could and there was a spell in the 2nd half we were really struggling to play out because of it. Defensively though Zimmermann did a great job. 

Have to say I would've liked to have seen subs made earlier. I don't think it would have done any harm to make a couple of changes but ultimately all that matters is that we won the game. So pleased with that, absolutely massive win!

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4 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Strange that a bunch of posters are claiming that a forum is a chance to express an opinion(correct), but then spend a lot of time complaining when other posters express an opinion on their posts??

(This was after the result rather proved their opinion incorrect)

Strange that a bunch of posters are claiming that a forum is a chance to express an opinion(correct), but then spend a lot of time complaining when other posters express an opinion on someone's opinion that their initial opinion  was incorrect. We could go on...

(And the opinion was only proven correct if you believe scraping a one nil win at home to Rotherham was the best possible outcome today. I think we could have done even better)

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3 minutes ago, Ian said:

Well, that made about as much sense as your usual posts I guess, so...

I agree, it's why you don't understand them. I'll try and dumb them down for you next time if you'd like. Maybe bust out the Crayola packs.

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2 minutes ago, Downloads said:

It doesn't prove an opinion is incorrect - Just to correct you. Nobody said if we don't make a sub we are definitely going to concede a goal. There is no correct/incorrect. Think about it.

 

And as far as giving an opinion - people are giving an opinion on a match, an opinion calling other posters negative is childish.

Of course it was incorrect (and a bit silly really). We won the game 1-0 with Farke's "game management", which vindicated the manager. Posters were suggesting different "game management", which wouldn't have given us more than the three points we won and possibly could have given us less. The balance is with Farke.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

 I think we could have done even better)

Four points, five points, Six points? Is there a new EFL rule on bonus points that only you know about?

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1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

I agree, it's why you don't understand them. I'll try and dumb them down for you next time if you'd like. Maybe bust out the Crayola packs.

Yeah you've got me there. If I was smarter I would probably realise that all your bluster and childish insults, are just your attempt to deflect from the fact your posts have all the logic and foresight of the average Crayola user...

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1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Of course it was incorrect (and a bit silly really). We won the game 1-0 with Farke's "game management", which vindicated the manager. Posters were suggesting different "game management", which wouldn't have given us more than the three points we won and possibly could have given us less. The balance is with Farke.

 

 

That doesn't make someone else's opinion incorrect.

 

We would never know unless that player came on.

 

The only way the opinion is incorrect is if the person said, "if we don't make this sub now, we will concede"

 

I didn't notice anybody saying that...

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I would have made the same decisions as Farke:

The game was finely balanced. Changes could turn the game in our favour. They could turn the game in Rotherham's favour (if we don't get settled quick enough). Rotherham wern't particularly dangerous outside set pieces, so it wasn't urgent to make a change.

The only obvious change was Vrancic coming off. You have two options: like-for-like with Dowell or change our shape (e.g. Tettey). Being frank, Dowell has not really shown he's capable of controlling the game yet. Further, he's not particularly workman like and from what little we've seen not that great in the air (bizarrely Mario isn't too bad in the air). Bringing Tettey on breaks the balance of the midfield and we saw that at the end where we just were trying to play out the minutes. Besides Tettey is notoriously awful defending set pieces and that was arguably Rotherham's biggest threat.

Another change was bringing Pukki off - but he was still getting sniffs at goal and I'd much rather him upfront than Idah (with the greatest respect to Adam, he's unlikely to fashion a chance on his own). Also, Rotherham wern't playing out from the back much, so there was little chasing for Pukki to do.

The only other change was to take one of Cantwell or Buendia off (taking both would really stymie our creativity). Buendia is a workhorse so it didn't feel necessary. Cantwell is our weakest player in the air and has lower stamina than the other midfielders. But he was arguably our best player on the ball second half and the one most controlling the flow. You could have brought Hernandez on, but he does give the ball away and has less discipline than Cantwell. Rupp was probably the obvious choice as he's tidy on the ball, won't give it away and is better defensively. Neither would have particularly helped defending set pieces however.

In short, I'd have made the same changes as Farke. Though I'd space them out more for game management purposes.

Edited by MrBunce
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1 minute ago, Fiery Zac said:

Watch my team deservedly win and stretch the lead at the top of the table

vs

reply to some consistently repeated nonsense about Farkes poor game management

Hmm..?

 

I agree this is a forum for discussion and Farke is not perfect and has made mistakes. But I can’t understand the continued surprise and critisism at how he manages games. Even more surprising as we are streets ahead in terms of quality and actual position in the league.
 

He wants to keep a team that is performing on the pitch for as long as possible to get the result. With our often reported on training methods, why shouldn’t everyone play the full 90? It’s about getting the game won and our results are there to see.
 

Even more confusing is the lack of appreciation for Farke when he has made game changing substitutions. He knows what he’s doing in game. He’s proven in on numerous occasions.

Fine but had Rotherham equalised then you would have had to admit that Farke probably got it wrong? Fortunately they didn't and now you can give Farke praise for that, fair enough. 

I just find it strange that Farke makes comments in press conferences that Dowell needs time on the pitch to find his rythm, only not to give him a single minute today. Vrancic was treading water most of the 2nd half and in my opinion was playing awful. Seemed an obvious substitution to me, and I wasn't the only one.

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9 minutes ago, MrBunce said:

I would have made the same decisions as Farke:

The game was finely balanced. Changes could turn the game in our favour. They could turn the game in Rotherham's favour (if we don't get settled quick enough). Rotherham wern't particularly dangerous outside set pieces, so it wasn't urgent to make change.

The only obvious change was Vrancic coming off. You have two options: like-for-like with Dowell or change our shape (e.g. Tettey). Being frank, Dowell has not really shown he's capable of controlling the game yet. Further, he's not particularly workman like and from what little we've seen not that great in the air (bizarrely Mario isn't too bad in the air). Bringing Tettey on breaks the balance of the midfield and we saw that at the end where we just were trying to play out the minutes. Besides Tettey is notoriously awful defending set pieces and that was arguably Rotherham's biggest threat.

Another change was bringing Pukki off - but he was still getting sniffs at goal and I'd much rather him upfront than Idah (with the greatest respect to Adam, he's unlikely to fashion a chance on his own). Also, Rotherham wern't playing out from the back much, so there was little chasing for Pukki to do.

The only other change was to take one of Cantwell or Buendia off (taking both would really stymie our creativity). Buendia is a workhorse so it didn't feel necessary. Cantwell is our weakest player in the air and has lower stamina than the other midfielders. But he was arguably our best player on the ball second half and the one most controlling the flow. You could have brought Hernandez on, but he does give the ball away and has less discipline than Cantwell. Rupp was probably the obvious choice as he's tidy on the ball, won't give it away and is better defensively. Neither would have particularly helped defending set pieces however.

In short, I'd have made the same changes as Farke. Though I'd space them out more for game management purposes.

I agree with lots of this post MrB, but the idea that Cantwell has lower stamina than the other midfielders is strange - people at the club who monitor this stuff really closely will tell you that he regularly runs further in a match than any of our other players.

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2 minutes ago, Ian said:

Yeah you've got me there.

If only you had just stopped there you'd have made a post on my sort of level.

As it is, you've carried on with your (admittedly excellent) Joey Essex impression. Shame.

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1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

Fine but had Rotherham equalised then you would have had to admit that Farke probably got it wrong? Fortunately they didn't and now you can give Farke praise for that, fair enough. 

I just find it strange that Farke makes comments in press conferences that Dowell needs time on the pitch to find his rythm, only not to give him a single minute today. Vrancic was treading water most of the 2nd half and in my opinion was playing awful. Seemed an obvious substitution to me, and I wasn't the only one.

I suspect that Farke thought we would be comfortable, later in the game (as we were v Coventry, when Dowell did get lots of time ). Because we had missed chances today and it was only 1-0, if Dowell (for example) had come on and we drew the game, Farke would be getting loads of stick. Marginal decision but justified as we won 🙂 

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46 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

A couple of weeks ago Brentford were the Force of the Division. I think you need to insert the word Cadet in there now.

Bump the league prediction thread

im first comment

”Norwich City 1st Unironically”

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9 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Fine but had Rotherham equalised then you would have had to admit that Farke probably got it wrong? Fortunately they didn't and now you can give Farke praise for that, fair enough. 

I just find it strange that Farke makes comments in press conferences that Dowell needs time on the pitch to find his rythm, only not to give him a single minute today. Vrancic was treading water most of the 2nd half and in my opinion was playing awful. Seemed an obvious substitution to me, and I wasn't the only one.

This is strange Capt. P. Farke explained in great detail only yesterday the dilemma he's got with Dowell - so much so that there was a dedicated article on the main page all about it.  His point was that if he had the luxury of playing Dowell from the start for five games he's sure that Dowell would get up to speed. However, he doesn't have that luxury at the moment - and thinking that Dowell is going to get up to speed with five minutes here, 20 minutes there is just wishful thinking. Think back to Dowell's near disastrous error in the last second of the match at Millwall to see why Farke is loathe to bring him on. 

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40 minutes ago, pete said:

An absolute slog made even more difficult.  

Look at the table Pete, I guess Farke knows what he's doing eh?. I wanted earlier subs but we won son, end of.

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6 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I agree with lots of this post MrB, but the idea that Cantwell has lower stamina than the other midfielders is strange - people at the club who monitor this stuff really closely will tell you that he regularly runs further in a match than any of our other players.

That's true which is why he tends to be the one to come off. Obviously it's relative! Compared to Vrancic it's not a contest - compared to Emi and Skipp they tend to last the minutes a bit better.

Edited by MrBunce

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