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I know it will be an unchanged side, but we really need to get away from starting with Vrancic.

 

A player who can't do 90 mins isn't the answer. Plus he always seems more focused as a sub

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Vrancic is a fantastic impact player, for some reason he’s not as influential when he starts but I doubt he’ll change a winning side.

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57 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Pukki until recently again hadn't been filling me with confidence at No 9 (indeed if Hugill had been fit I might have dropped him). Vrancic appears now to of taken over from McLean in this respect as the scapegoat.

Luckily none of us are football managers and only see what we want to see, usually not the oft missed running off the ball and making space. Was it Greavsie in his day could have a stinker, never touch the ball but always had two players marking him out of the game (hence making space elsewhere).

Just opinions. 

Leave as is.

 

I'd argue McLean suffers more from that in terms of people missing what he offers off the ball (sometimes it gets derided as "running around and pointing a lot"), and I've said for a long time Vrancic is more effective in the deep. He causes a lot of trouble off the bench with his game intelligence against tiring opponents, but we do need to think in terms of bedding Dowell in.

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I don't understand why Kenny doesn't make himself more available for the defenders. A lot of sideways passing because he's not trying to generate space for himself in the middle or looking like he wants the ball. Skipp does this more than Kenny.

 

It's only a guess but i believe if Sorrensen were there he would pick up the ball a lot and add another option.

 

Edit: Not hating on Kenny, i would just like us to try something else

Edited by Downloads

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Dowell God No, doesn't deserve starting place not impressed at all.  Vrancic has been anonymous recently set up Todd against Stoke but did nothing at Coventry.  Rotherham will be toughest game in next 3 need to continue with wins to stay clear.  But most meaningful stat is that all losses were with Mario out.  Mario to start therefore.  If can get 2-0 up we will not concede more than 1, Farke can give others a run out with more minutes.  

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23 minutes ago, pete said:

Dowell God No, doesn't deserve starting place not impressed at all.  Vrancic has been anonymous recently set up Todd against Stoke but did nothing at Coventry.  Rotherham will be toughest game in next 3 need to continue with wins to stay clear.  But most meaningful stat is that all losses were with Mario out.  Mario to start therefore.  If can get 2-0 up we will not concede more than 1, Farke can give others a run out with more minutes.  

 

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'd argue McLean suffers more from that in terms of people missing what he offers off the ball (sometimes it gets derided as "running around and pointing a lot"), and I've said for a long time Vrancic is more effective in the deep. He causes a lot of trouble off the bench with his game intelligence against tiring opponents, but we do need to think in terms of bedding Dowell in.

I don't disagree Mario is not a true No. 10 but more of a deeper playmaker.

Interesting stat though and it probably shows he brings more to the team (an 'out' or balance or keeps the opposition defense wary of beg undone) than is instantly visible. 

Edited by Yellow Fever

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Vrancic currently contributes about as much as Steipermann in that position. A few key passes and nice link up play here and there. The position is still there for the taking, but Dowell has looked rusty since his injury, but when fit is a better player in that position than the other two previously mentioned. He needs game time to get sharp. Which then begs the question do you drop Vrancic and start Dowell, probably not as it stands based on recent performances.

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After arguably the best overall performances of the season (taking into the conditions on Wednesday) why would anyone want to change the team? 
 

Just my opinion but I don’t think you can change a team that’s performed so well over the last couple of matches.  

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If it ain't broke don't fix it. As much as I'd love to see Sorenson eventually get a chance in his natural position I think that Skipp and McLean offers us a really nice balance and they complement each other nicely. I'm not sure why we'd choose to drop one of them at such an important point, particularly as Kenny was excellent in the first half on Wednesday.

I think Mario has been a bit of an unsung hero in the last couple of games. His role has been to get in the right place and link the play between the midfield and attack, allowing Cantwell and Buendia to move into and get on the ball in positions where they can really influence the game. It's frustrating that he can't really play more than 70 minutes but I think he has been crucial in the first half of the last 2 matches. Farke said himself Dowell needs to do more if he wants a run in the side, and until he shows us that bit extra then Vrancic keeps his place for me.

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5 hours ago, king canary said:

I agree nobody deserves to be dropped right now.

However from Feb 13th to March 6th we've got 7 games in 21 days so a bit of rotation is needed at points.

I think this is where I am, I know Farke likes to play the same x1 and that makes sense usually but this big run of games till the end of the season now is going to see uS needing to use our squad. On paper atleast this is one of the advantages we hold with our squad depth over some of the others. However now totally contradicting myself I think these next 3 games for us our critical. No game is easy in the championship but if we can see off Rotherham, Birmingham and Wycombe we will have 70 points from 33 games and prob need 6 wins out of 13 to be atleast second,  so I would therefore go as strong as we can for these games.

in one way our early season injuries may have helped us a bit as Pukki, Gibson, McClean, Cantwell, Krul have all had a break at some point as have Hernandez, Rupp, Dowell, Idah, Hudgil and Stipermann which should mean we have less fatigue in the squad. Our main worries are Aaron’s, Skipp and Hanley who seem to have played most weeks.

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When you have so much competition for places, players must surely deserve to retain that spot.... Vrancic was anonymous Wednesday and McLean may as well have had a blue shirt on second half, he's been making a few really troubling mistakes lately too. 

Fortunately, everyone else was exceptional (although Hanley had some dodgy moments).     

So, surely Sorensen deserves a chance in that midfield if McLean isn't at his best.... so does Rupp.      Dowell and Hernandez also need minutes to get up to speed and no evidence they would be less influential than Mario is when he starts a game.   

Edited by ged in the onion bag

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Only change I'd be making is pushing McLean into the 10, Sorenson in alongside Skipp, and Mario on the bench. 

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6 hours ago, NFN FC said:

 

Anyway, as always, it's great to hear from you Jerry. 

No it isn't....... In my opinion of course 😁😁

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1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

When you have so much competition for places, players must surely deserve to retain that spot.... Vrancic was anonymous Wednesday and McLean may as well have had a blue shirt on second half, he's been making a few really troubling mistakes lately too.  

I think that's a bit unfair to be honest. Kenny was fantastic in the first half against Coventry, as good in his role as Cantwell or Emi were in theirs. Yeah he wasn't brilliant in the 2nd but everyone's performance levels eased off as we tried to consolidate the win. Pukki and Buendia weren't particularly effective in the 2nd half either but no-one would ever suggest dropping them. I feel like some people are just looking for any excuse to drop McLean, which doesn't make sense to me because he's generally played very well this season.

As I said in my post above, I think Mario has been an unsung hero last couple of games. He has done a superb job of linking the defence/midfield with our forward 3, and without him I think Cantwell and Buendia would have been far less effective. For me, If it isn't broke don't fix it, and our last 2 games have been 2 of our best performances of the season, so I don't see any reason to change the side for now.

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7 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Only change I'd be making is pushing McLean into the 10, Sorenson in alongside Skipp, and Mario on the bench. 

Christ...we're at home to Rotherham...how negative a midfield do you want us to have??!

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1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Christ...we're at home to Rotherham...how negative a midfield do you want us to have??!

How is that negative?? Its no more negative than any other suggestion on this post. What a bizzare comment 🤷‍♂️

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12 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

How is that negative?? Its no more negative than any other suggestion on this post. What a bizzare comment 🤷‍♂️

Two defensive holding midfielders behind another holding midfielder??

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1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Two defensive holding midfielders behind another holding midfielder??

Mclean isn't a holding midfielder, hence he often makes clangers when playing there, he's much more effective playing further up, in place of Vrancic so it's not 3 holding midfielders in the slightest, it's exactly the same formation and attacking tactic Farke will select regardless of personnel. So I repeat, bizzare comment 🤷‍♂️

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17 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Mclean isn't a holding midfielder, hence he often makes clangers when playing there, he's much more effective playing further up, in place of Vrancic so it's not 3 holding midfielders in the slightest, it's exactly the same formation and attacking tactic Farke will select regardless of personnel. So I repeat, bizzare comment 🤷‍♂️

The formation will be the same but the personnel within it would clearly be more defensive in your line up

If you cant see that     

Skipp  Sorenson

     McClean

Is more defensive minded/negative  than

    Skipp   McLean

        Vrancic or Dowell

Then theres no point even debating the point

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21 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

The formation will be the same but the personnel within it would clearly be more defensive in your line up

If you cant see that     

Skipp  Sorenson

     McClean

Is more defensive minded/negative  than

    Skipp   McLean

        Vrancic or Dowell

Then theres no point even debating the point

They wouldn't at all, McLeans role would be much more advanced than in his previous couple of games, you seem obsessed that my selection would be some form of 4-3-2-1, it's not. McLean is just as attack minded as Vrancic when deployed further upfield. 

Like you say, absolutely no point debating as you clearly aren't getting that. 

Edited by Ken Hairy

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3 hours ago, Pukki Blinders said:

I think that's a bit unfair to be honest. Kenny was fantastic in the first half against Coventry, as good in his role as Cantwell or Emi were in theirs. Yeah he wasn't brilliant in the 2nd but everyone's performance levels eased off as we tried to consolidate the win. Pukki and Buendia weren't particularly effective in the 2nd half either but no-one would ever suggest dropping them. I feel like some people are just looking for any excuse to drop McLean, which doesn't make sense to me because he's generally played very well this season.

As I said in my post above, I think Mario has been an unsung hero last couple of games. He has done a superb job of linking the defence/midfield with our forward 3, and without him I think Cantwell and Buendia would have been far less effective. For me, If it isn't broke don't fix it, and our last 2 games have been 2 of our best performances of the season, so I don't see any reason to change the side for now.

Your argument regards Pukki and Buendia and the overall performance is a fair one although Pukki plays a different role and relies on service and Buendia, like Cantwell was constantly on the ball / being creative and a threat and defending too.    Mario wasn't offering anything bar the odd touch and the games pass him by.   He really isn't as effective when he starts, its the same with Steipermann, the overall contribution isn't anywhere near adequate, especially when you consider the lack of defensive effort too.  Placheta needs time, is frustrating to watch, but at least he is a pest for opponents.    In truth, the third forward position has been a problem all season since no one other than Buendia and Cantwell has impressed.    I watch closely, he hasn't been a consistent link of the play, he's set up Cantwell, yes, but not much else.

McLean wasn't fantastic first half in my view (accepting that the pitch didn't help).    I don't think he's a bad player, but he's not great either, he's inconsistent and would be interesting to see what Sorensen can do as he might be an option next season if we get promoted whereas Kenny certainly isn't based on last seasons efforts.     Rupp played very well earlier in the season before his injury and probably has been Skipp's best partner so far.    There are options and I am just saying if the performance levels drop or simply aren't good enough, Daniel should give other players a chance.     In Dowell and Hernandez, given minutes perhaps they will prove more effective starting than Vrancic has.   

Its the managers job to pick the best side, you don't improve with a philosophy of 'if its not broke', surely if you can improve the team, do it.   I like the club's culture but sometimes it does seem we operate with the heart rather than the head.

Edited by ged in the onion bag

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Quite a few on this forum are demanding Dowell to start. What is it about Dowell that makes people think he's so good ?? - when his poor performances suggest otherwise. Is it because he's from Everton or is it the video clips of him scoring against "open" defences ?  With the pack hard on our coat-tails it's not a time to play the "dirt-trackers" - we can't afford to drop any points whatsoever. Opposition clubs are setup to press and defend against you in title chasing situations, not play openly as if against a bottom half team. Totally different - can Dowell cope with a defence set out like a checker board ? The opposition will not be backing off and letting you run at them. Vrancic although out of position, has shown that he has the skill to be productive in this environment.

If there is a better player available than Vrancic then fair enough - but there is too much noice on here for a sub-standard player to start just because of his reputation. Rotherham are going to be tough - could be just one priceless goal in it so it could take one piece of magic to get pass them - you don't sacrifice points for the sake of giving reserves gametime !

Someone please enlighten me !

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6 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

Quite a few on this forum are demanding Dowell to start. What is it about Dowell that makes people think he's so good ?? - when his poor performances suggest otherwise. Is it because he's from Everton or is it the video clips of him scoring against "open" defences ?  With the pack hard on our coat-tails it's not a time to play the "dirt-trackers" - we can't afford to drop any points whatsoever. Opposition clubs are setup to press and defend against you in title chasing situations, not play openly as if against a bottom half team. Totally different - can Dowell cope with a defence set out like a checker board ? The opposition will not be backing off and letting you run at them. Vrancic although out of position, has shown that he has the skill to be productive in this environment.

If there is a better player available than Vrancic then fair enough - but there is too much noice on here for a sub-standard player to start just because of his reputation. Rotherham are going to be tough - could be just one priceless goal in it so it could take one piece of magic to get pass them - you don't sacrifice points for the sake of giving reserves gametime !

Someone please enlighten me !

Its true he hasn't convinced as yet, and thus hard to make a case for him but he probably needs minutes to get used to the pattern of play, get his confidence, without that, he's not proving his worth..... There is a spot in the forward 3 (Buendia, Cantwell, ?) and no one has taken it.   With Vrancic and Platcheta being relatively ineffective in that role, question is, could Hernandez or Dowell do a better job given some proper minutes?     Look how Giannoulis has come on with a few full games for example.    

If we are going to get promoted, my view is we need to see if any players can step up to the EPL level.   If not its going to be an expensive summer or real struggle again.....   We know Vrancic can't, Steipermann can't and Platcheta looks a tad erratic and limited in quality, could Dowell come good with some playing time?    Would like to think he could offer at least as much as Vrancic does when he starts.   

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I would like to see Dowell get the nod ahead of Vrancic as he was the first choice no.10 before he got injured and I don’t think Mario has the energy to start a league fixture anymore. Maybe bring in Sorensen for McLean as since he’s returned he hasn’t been playing all that well.

However, I reckon it will be an unchanged starting XI 

Edited by HazzaJet

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8 hours ago, Six Pack said:

Quite a few on this forum are demanding Dowell to start. What is it about Dowell that makes people think he's so good ?? - when his poor performances suggest otherwise. Is it because he's from Everton or is it the video clips of him scoring against "open" defences ?  With the pack hard on our coat-tails it's not a time to play the "dirt-trackers" - we can't afford to drop any points whatsoever. Opposition clubs are setup to press and defend against you in title chasing situations, not play openly as if against a bottom half team. Totally different - can Dowell cope with a defence set out like a checker board ? The opposition will not be backing off and letting you run at them. Vrancic although out of position, has shown that he has the skill to be productive in this environment.

If there is a better player available than Vrancic then fair enough - but there is too much noice on here for a sub-standard player to start just because of his reputation. Rotherham are going to be tough - could be just one priceless goal in it so it could take one piece of magic to get pass them - you don't sacrifice points for the sake of giving reserves gametime !

Someone please enlighten me !

This is why I want to see Dowell play.  Our attack is not potent enough currently to compete in the premier league.  Pukki, Buendia, and Cantwell are producing the goods, but they are bullied out of the game if the passing is not quick enough or probing enough.  The number 10 position is critical in this system linking the defence with those attackers, or playing in the fullbacks.

just my opinion but Dowell is the right sort of player to fill that void, what we do not know is if he is good enough at doing it.  
 

Ultimately I would not change a winning team, but Farke was willing to do it for Giannoulis.  So there is a risk benefit balance which Daniel considers, if he thinks it is worth it, and a game against Rotherham, in the midst of a very busy schedule is the kind of game where you could see that balance change.

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Start as before with Vrancic. He only has to do one or two things to change the game and he is clever enough to open up a defense that will inevitably be set up to play for the draw. Vrancic is unlikely to last 90 minutes so perhaps Dowell on late unless we are drawing in which case 442 with Hugill. 

Sorensen is a wonderful talent but in order to play him in his preferred role this late in the season it will require both McLean and Rupp or Skipp to be deposed. It would be a very brave call by the manager to sideline two of his most senior players and while Farke is capable of making brave calls his more natural tendency is more conservative approach- an approach which has more often that not been vindicated.

 

 

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