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cambridgeshire canary

Mike Dean yet again being Mike Dean

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On 07/02/2021 at 09:05, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I thought the same thing . Mitrovic goes down holding his face in the sort of agony that would see most of us in ICU for a fortnight , and it doesn’t get any kind of mention. Week In and week out we see it .

when Emi got his red against Burnley it was no different . 
 

Football accepts this nonsense as part of the game . 

Totally agree.

Perhaps if Dean had give Mitrovic a yellow for being a big girls' blouse, it might help cut some of this ridiculous behaviour out.

And, until some refs are strong enough to do that it will only get worse

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1 hour ago, First Wazzock said:

Totally agree.

Perhaps if Dean had give Mitrovic a yellow for being a big girls' blouse, it might help cut some of this ridiculous behaviour out.

And, until some refs are strong enough to do that it will only get worse

I think it should go further than that - all diving and playacting should just be a red card offence? With a 3 game ban? With retrospective bans against players if its missed in game. That might sound harsh but its the only way to cut it out now, and on reflection I think it is ample punishment - 

Playacting is usually done to get players sent off yes? See Buendia's second yellow versus Middlesbrough, Mitrovic yesterday, Xhaka in the FA cup final, Lamela to Martial at Old Trafford etc etc. And all of this behaviour is completely allowed with no punishment to mitigate it. So there is zero risk and a possible reward - therefore why wouldn't a player do it? 

And on diving*, right now if a player dives in the box and it works out - he gets a pen and sometimes a red for the defender, but if it doesn't work out he only gets a yellow? So in terms of risk and reward, again, why not dive? Its always worth the gamble win or lose. 

In both instances - the rules need to change so that the potential punishment carries as much weight as the potential reward, only then might players start behaving honestly! Its that simple!

 

*By dive I mean throwing themselves on the floor at the slightest touch - see Salah yesterday. Go for the obvious dives and those 'exaggerating' contact and players will eventually learn to always stay on their feet - it just wouldn't be worth the risk. I'd much rather players tried to stay on their feet in all cases, and sometimes not get the decision (see what happened to Povedka for Leeds at Chelsea earlier in the season), than everyone throwing themselves on the floor at every single touch. Yes, there was a bit of contact, but he played on and clearly wasn't actually hindered by the touch at all - so not a foul. But rather than point this out match of the day call the player 'naive' for not going down. So irritating how engrained it has all become. 

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Also anyone who thinks Soucek should've been sent off needs to give their head a good backwards 'wobble'.

He clearly lifts his arm up and away to try to get the other side of Mitrovic's shoulder, and grazes his head in the process - never intentional. Glad it was rightly overturned. 

I also don't understand the justification of 'well he had his elbow up in the air and his elbow hitted him in the head', did you guys also think the player who accidentally slapped Cantwell in the face the other game should've been sent off too? Should every incident of an arm to the face when two players go up for a header also be a red card? Come on guys....

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2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Surely what has happened is nothing to do with hatred or racism. Its just someone doing it because they can. I would like to know how you can stop it?

Without infringing civil liberties, how do you prevent someone with a sick or evil mind, posting their views or thoughts online?

We are continually told about freedom of speech. So where do you draw the line.

Q770: Someone is sending me threatening / abusive / offensive messages via a social networking site. Is this a criminal offence? (askthe.police.uk)

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In regards to the diving/simulation situation, how many times have we seen players valiantly try to stay on their feet despite being blatantly fouled and nothing is given by the ref?

It's almost become self-destructive in these situations to NOT 'dive' because that's seemingly the only way many players actually get given the foul leading to the pen, as their sportsmanship, grit and perseverance usually gets them nothing.

The whole situation has spiralled out of control, and unless stricter measures and better interpretation of the rules are implemented, then this debacle will continue week after week, but sadly it's part of the greater sign that a lot of honesty and sportsmanship has gone from the game, and it's purely about money and results these days...

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6 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

In regards to the diving/simulation situation, how many times have we seen players valiantly try to stay on their feet despite being blatantly fouled and nothing is given by the ref?

It's almost become self-destructive in these situations to NOT 'dive' because that's seemingly the only way many players actually get given the foul leading to the pen, as their sportsmanship, grit and perseverance usually gets them nothing.

The whole situation has spiralled out of control, and unless stricter measures and better interpretation of the rules are implemented, then this debacle will continue week after week, but sadly it's part of the greater sign that a lot of honesty and sportsmanship has gone from the game, and it's purely about money and results these days...

You're right, it's pretty f*cked on both sides. If you try and stay up you can be fouled two or three times and the ref won't give it.

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Whilst no way condoning abuse of Mike Dean on a personal scale, he can be pretty poor and act like a little Hitler in some matches. The problem is we have social media, and if you are a 'die-hard' WHU fan, not being able to go to matches, you are gonna be pretty hacked off at his decision. Then.....add in both Red cards rescinded!! WHU could've gone 4th and that's what rankles. 

I do though, lay the blame firmly at Mitrovic's door. Maybe the abuse should be aimed at him. His simulation was particularly 'Lame' but the FA should now back-up their 'rescinded;' red card with one for Mitrovic - bringing the game into disrepute - 3 game ban. And perhaps a jail sentence for breaking UK Lockdown rules. 

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VAR is meant to curb all this - aid the Referee to make the right decision. All that seems to happen with VAR is the result gets influenced after the wrong decision is made. This smacks of corruption. VAR is corrupting the game. Call me old fashioned but I can take a 'marginal' split decision by a Lino where at real-time speed they flag for offside but seriously, lines across the pitch and all that BS is killing the game. 🦊

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17 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

 

 

Card overturned.

Dunno what planet Sutton is on?

However, former Blackburn forward Chris Sutton, speaking on BBC Radio 5 Live, said: "I don't think Mike Dean is left with any choice. What does he do if he doesn't send him off? "I think it was accidental, but whether or not it was accidental it was dangerous. "Mitrovic did get caught. Can we have a go at Mitrovic for going down? I think Soucek caught him fairly strongly. I think the red card will stick."

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2 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

In regards to the diving/simulation situation, how many times have we seen players valiantly try to stay on their feet despite being blatantly fouled and nothing is given by the ref?

It's almost become self-destructive in these situations to NOT 'dive' because that's seemingly the only way many players actually get given the foul leading to the pen, as their sportsmanship, grit and perseverance usually gets them nothing.

The whole situation has spiralled out of control, and unless stricter measures and better interpretation of the rules are implemented, then this debacle will continue week after week, but sadly it's part of the greater sign that a lot of honesty and sportsmanship has gone from the game, and it's purely about money and results these days...

Yeah this is a problem- players have been incentivized to go down because referees won't give fouls if they don't.

Personally I'd like to see less of that, doing away with nonsense like 'if there is contact its a penalty' and also trying to get players to help referees do their job rather than spending 90 minutes trying to con them.

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On 07/02/2021 at 10:07, lake district canary said:

Don't know what all the fuss is about. The defender's elbow is up at forehead height for no good reason and there is a connection. Has to be a red card by the book.  As for pundits calling it out....they are the same pundits that often say "he was touched so he's entitled to go down"........go figure.....

Definite red imo.

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10 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Definite red imo.

Nope. Players often accidentally hit each other in the face when competing for headers or changing direction etc... no one has ever previously called for red cards to be given when this happens even though it appears to be the correct offence based on some peoples' logic on this thread. 

But clearly accidental contact should be treated as it is and not as a red card offence!  

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler

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2 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Nope. Players often accidentally hit each other in the face when competing for headers or changing direction etc... no one has ever previously called for red cards to be given when this happens even though it appears to be the correct offence based on some peoples' logic on this thread. 

But clearly accidental contact should be treated as it is and not as a red card offence!  

How can it have been accidental? There was no reason for his elbow to be head height, he wasn't jumping or anything. If he wanted to fend off the attacker, he could have used his shoulder or even hand, but instead he stuck his elbow up in the air.  Don't know how anyone can defend it.

 

Edited by lake district canary

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16 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

How can it have been accidental? There was no reason for his elbow to be head height, he wasn't jumping or anything. If he wanted to fend off the attacker, he could have used his shoulder or even hand, but instead he stuck his elbow up in the air.  Don't know how anyone can defend it.

 

It was rescinded

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55 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

How can it have been accidental? There was no reason for his elbow to be head height, he wasn't jumping or anything. If he wanted to fend off the attacker, he could have used his shoulder or even hand, but instead he stuck his elbow up in the air.  Don't know how anyone can defend it.

 

Seriously??? 

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In Dean's defence, if the ball hit his arm in that position it would be a foul and handball so why shouldn't it be a foul if Sones head get hit instead, accidental or not.

I don't think it was a red but I can say that about penalties given with the slightest touch or ball to hand or offside by a pubic hair.

Most football fans need to stop being **** and stop moaning about refereeing decisions so much, just accept it and stop crying.

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Laughable imo.

Agreed.    I'd like to hear the explanation from Soucek but Dean should not be criticised as it is pretty clear on VAR that it was an elbow to the face, from an elbow in a totally unnatural position with the 'offender' standing fairly still, so difficult to argue as accidental. 

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10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Just think of it in a court of law. 

Don't bring the legal arguments into this thread as well...... 😏😂

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Errr......Mitrovic pleaded with Dean that it wasn't a red card. The FA overturned the Red Card.

It's been to the Court of Law and been thrown out. So Dean was in the wrong, Mitrovic was not a 'victim'.

Court of Law.................🐠🚲😂

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16 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Nope. Players often accidentally hit each other in the face when competing for headers or changing direction etc... no one has ever previously called for red cards to be given when this happens even though it appears to be the correct offence based on some peoples' logic on this thread. 

But clearly accidental contact should be treated as it is and not as a red card offence!  

I feel like at some point the FA/Fifa/whoever need to remind players and fans alike that football is still a contact sport. Accidental contact will happen, it doesn't make it a foul every time. The act of one player coming into contact with another does not automatically mean a free kick needs to be given but it seems we're going that way sometimes.

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53 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

No-one defending the player has successfully explained why he lifted his elbow up to head height.

Looks to me like he is either trying to shrug off the contact from Mitrovic and he doesn't realise how much Mitrovic is leaning into him, or that he is trying to lift his arm over and behind Mitrovic to get the other side of him and run in behind him for the cross.

Either way Soucek isn't even looking in his direction when he does it! 

One of those that looks worse in slow mo - then you see it full time and realise there's no way its intentional. 

Also everything in the player's reaction showed it was unintentional, not to mention Mitrovic also trying to convince the ref that there was nothing in it. Why would he do that if he thought it was remotely malicious? 

The fact it has now been rescinded by the FA is also a bit of a tell, remember some of the incredibly dubious red cards received by Grant Holt at Reading, and Jonny Howson (can't remember who against) which were not overturned? It clearly takes a lot for the FA to overturn a decision, the fact this one was says it all! 

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I've seen hundreds of sendings off that should have been rescinded and weren't. Genuine tackles made that have been turned into viscious crimes against humanity by slow motion replays. It's just ridiculous that this one should be overturned because it was an accident. His elbow went up, it was at a dangerous height, it connected and that should be it.  Rules are rules.

 

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1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

I've seen hundreds of sendings off that should have been rescinded and weren't. Genuine tackles made that have been turned into viscious crimes against humanity by slow motion replays. It's just ridiculous that this one should be overturned because it was an accident. His elbow went up, it was at a dangerous height, it connected and that should be it.  Rules are rules.

 

Sorry but doing things your way would pretty much ruin football for me. It's a contact sport and occasionally accidental contact will happen. And it was incredibly minor contact at that

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Sorry but doing things your way would pretty much ruin football for me. It's a contact sport and occasionally accidental contact will happen. And it was incredibly minor contact at that

The end of an elbow is one of the most dangerous points of contact and very painful and unless it is a glancing blow, is likely to cause damage. He was not being careful, he was putting his arm up to fend off the attacker and he got it wrong. Same as any other mistimed tackle that gets punished imo, mistimed, accidental or whatever, it is still foul play and should have been punished, as it was at the time. 

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