That settles it

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

32 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

We're fairly established  in the auto spots at the moment..... that's what " that " has to do with anything  you've said..  jaysus, some people.

Yes we’re currently in the autos, but if Brentford (currently 3-1 up) and Swansea win their single games now in hand on us then they both go 1 point clear of us. So whilst we’re sitting in the auto spots right now, it’s not in our hands. 

When I say I’m confident we’ll re establish ourselves in the top two, I mean open up a head of steam with 3rd - like that 4-5 point gap we had just a few week’s back.

Make sense?

[HazzaJet 252]

45 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Only if it's a 2 yellow  red, Straight red would be 5 games I believe  Nuffo.

Depends on what the straight red is for

Professional foul/Deliberate handball - 1 match ban

Violent conduct/Serious foul play etc - 3 match ban 

 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

6 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yes we’re currently in the autos, but if Brentford (currently 3-1 up) and Swansea win their single games now in hand on us then they both go 1 point clear of us. So whilst we’re sitting in the auto spots right now, it’s not in our hands. 

When I say I’m confident we’ll re establish ourselves in the top two, I mean open up a head of steam with 3rd - like that 4-5 point gap we had just a few week’s back.

Make sense?

Of course, I do understand  the league table.  

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, HazzaJet said:

Depends on what the straight red is for

Professional foul/Deliberate handball - 1 match ban

Violent conduct/Serious foul play etc - 3 match ban 

 

Wouldn't  2 games be added to either of those as he already has 2 reds?

[paul moy 235]

3 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yep you have to worry that teams are going to target him even more now.

Hopefully Farke will know to sub him sooner when he does get booked in future... and hopefully we’re already winning in that game when it happens... 

Yup, this is a clear failing of Farke.   Once Buendia is booked he has to be subbed as he is a loose cannon. I'd rather lose him for half a game and also still have 11 men on the pitch, than 2 or 3 or whatever it is next time.  

Edited February 6, 2021 by paul moy

[K Lo 221]

14 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Yup, this is a clear failing of Farke.   Once Buendia is booked he has to be subbed as he is a loose cannon. I'd rather lose him for half a game and also still have 11 men on the pitch, than 2 or 3 or whatever it is next time.  

Exactly... assuming that he doesn't get a straight red !

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

2 hours ago, K Lo said:

I'm deliberately winding you up with facts. 😆
This season we have lost 5 league games.
Buendia played in 3* of those 5 
(Over 80 mins for 2 of those, when he was subbed).

Having him on the pitch doesn't guarantee a win. He's also a liability at times when the opposition is hacking at him.

Again you’re not really making any valid points against my OP. Just splitting hairs, at no point have I suggested we are invincible when he plays, just that we really struggle when he doesn’t.

[K Lo 221]

20 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Again you’re not really making any valid points against my OP. Just splitting hairs, at no point have I suggested we are invincible when he plays, just that we really struggle when he doesn’t.

I get that... He isn't a guarantee of success and he also can be a liability in certain types of games.
I think the teams that sit deep and hack away at ankles makes him see red (well, 2 yellows), which i completely understand. he wants to play football, not get kicked and shoved about.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

9 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

This suggests that we get 2.3 ppg with Emi and  .79 ppg when he doesn't play. If that remained the case and Emi missed another 4 games this season we would end up on 90 points.

If only things were really that simple..

 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

To be fair he didnt deserve his last red

[TIL 1010 4,722]

1 hour ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

To be fair he didnt deserve his last red

Whether he deserved it or not i would think most of us saw it coming after his booking which was relatively early in the game. Past history tends to suggest Emi is a slow learner when it comes to yellow and red cards.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

19 hours ago, paul moy said:

Yup, this is a clear failing of Farke.   Once Buendia is booked he has to be subbed as he is a loose cannon. I'd rather lose him for half a game and also still have 11 men on the pitch, than 2 or 3 or whatever it is next time.  

Simplistic nonsense I'm afraid Mr Moy. Buendia has been booked 15 times in his Norwich career. On two of those occasions he has then picked up another yellow and been sent off. If he had been dragged off the moment he was booked in those 13 other games people would have been up in arms complaining. Emi just has to learn to keep his head and not respond to provocation, because he's going to get an awful lot more of it between now and the end of the season. 

[chicken 2,605]

I HATE STATS!

Mainly because they never, ever, give context.

The reality is when we have multiple threats teams can't handle us. Pukki is looking like a player that came back from injury a game or two too early. Cantwell has been man marked out of several of our recent games, including one with Buendia playing. Buendia has not looked the same since his bout of flu.

McLean caught covid just as he was hitting form and looking superb. Hugill was injured just as he looked like a genuine regular scorer.

Reality is, in recent games, there simply are not enough threats to stretch teams enough. As in, Cantwell is the only forward player consistently playing and offering genuine threat.

So yes, when Buendia is in the team we tend to do better as even on an off day he can do something a bit special. That means teams have another good player to contend with. The more threats like that you have, the less they can focus on any one player and have to try and work at several players. If players are out of form or not providing much of a threat then teams know they can adjust, focus more on the players that are and let the others make their mistakes. 

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

On 06/02/2021 at 14:05, unique said:

I believe Buendia is as close to ‘indispensable’ as you can get. Results when he is absent prove that.

I would argue that Buendia is the most talented footballer to wear the Norwich shirt.

Not only is he the most creative player in the squad, but often the most hard working. He always wants the ball, and if this means chasing back, harrying and tackling, he will. The danger is that those tackles will, from time to time, produce yellow cards, which then put him on the precipice of a red. Buendia is far from a dirty player, it is only frustration that can get the better of him, as well as the constant niggling fouls that are made on him.

It should also be underlined that Pukki is a far less potent goal scorer when Buendia isn’t present.

Watching Norwich will never be the same again when he is gone.

I largely agree here, but would say this - this is why he should be number 10. Let him get up and down the pitch, but do it down the middle. He does have excellent workrate and he has learned not to do rash things in our penalty box, unlike two years ago when he gave a couple of penalties away going in for things he didn't need to.

He is a little dirty though, but not in a malicious sense - just in a sense of wanting to get hold of the ball so badly. A lot of flair players are allergic to that sort of hard work and just want feeding the ball. Buendia's far better than that.

Although playing against him when he's chasing you must be like getting nipped and harried by a Jack Russell terrier that just saw a cat.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

When are the Club going to send Emi to a sports psychologist? He needs apro to sort his head out. Wenger sent Ian Wright, it only affected his performances in a positive manner. Would be money well spent.

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

Just now, wcorkcanary said:

When are the Club going to send Emi to a sports psychologist? He needs apro to sort his head out. Wenger sent Ian Wright, it only affected his performances in a positive manner. Would be money well spent.

Did Roy Keane ever go to a sports shrink?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Did Roy Keane ever go to a sports shrink?

Not a capable one anyway. He was more likely to go out drinking in Cork and then wonder why he got hassled..... not the smartest is Roy.  To seek help , you first have to admit that you need it..... can you see Roy Keane admitting fallibility?

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

5 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Not a capable one anyway. He was more likely to go out drinking in Cork and then wonder why he got hassled..... not the smartest is Roy.  To seek help , you first have to admit that you need it..... can you see Roy Keane admitting fallibility?

Still a bloody awesome player though.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

43 minutes ago, chicken said:

I HATE STATS!

Mainly because they never, ever, give context.

The reality is when we have multiple threats teams can't handle us. Pukki is looking like a player that came back from injury a game or two too early. Cantwell has been man marked out of several of our recent games, including one with Buendia playing. Buendia has not looked the same since his bout of flu.

McLean caught covid just as he was hitting form and looking superb. Hugill was injured just as he looked like a genuine regular scorer.

Reality is, in recent games, there simply are not enough threats to stretch teams enough. As in, Cantwell is the only forward player consistently playing and offering genuine threat.

So yes, when Buendia is in the team we tend to do better as even on an off day he can do something a bit special. That means teams have another good player to contend with. The more threats like that you have, the less they can focus on any one player and have to try and work at several players. If players are out of form or not providing much of a threat then teams know they can adjust, focus more on the players that are and let the others make their mistakes. 

Weird because we didn't need all of these 'multiple threats' available to win games when more than half the team was injured earlier in the season! By some massive 'coincidence' Buendia was pretty much the only attacking mainstay in the team during that period and we surpassed all expectations.

Fast forward several weeks when nearly everyone is back to fitness, apart from Buendia - and we haven't scored in 4 games (albeit with Buendia for 60 and 30 mins). 

Lets see how much we improve again for the next run of games now he is back (obviously we also have some easier fixtures). 

And I would agree that Cantwell had been outperforming him up to his suspension, but looking at Cantwell's last few games it seems clearly that he needs Buendia to bounce off and thrive himself! Just like the rest of the team does in an attacking sense.

I find it hard to believe anyone can look at that sample size of 74 championship games and not think there is a clear trend between playing with and without Buendia? 

[Indy 3,286]

The thing is it’s pretty obvious if your best players don’t play your less likely to win, look at Liverpool without Van ****!

I still maintain that Pukki looks a bigger threat when Buendia is on his game, be the next stat to see, how many goals Pukki scores with Buendia on the pitch!

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

59 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Still a bloody awesome player though.

Hmmm. Falls into the  'very good but flawed ' category  for me.  Divisive figure, led by intimidation not example or intelligence.  Each to their own though. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

The thing is it’s pretty obvious if your best players don’t play your less likely to win, look at Liverpool without Van ****!

I still maintain that Pukki looks a bigger threat when Buendia is on his game, be the next stat to see, how many goals Pukki scores with Buendia on the pitch!

Yep agreed it is stating the obvious - but before the season started I thought Buendia was one of maybe 4/5 key players who make the team tick - including Krul, Pukki, Cantwell and Aarons.

Now however, I’d put Buendia in a far higher bracket than our other key players because we simply do not function in possession without him, whereas we do appear to be able to cope without the others (although Aarons is an unknown).

Dare I say we’re a ‘one man team’? Certainly getting close to that! 

Relatively, Buendia is to us what Kane is to Spurs, who clearly have other talented players elsewhere in the team (Son, Ndombele, Hojberg, Lloris etc) - but they simply do not work in an attacking sense without their main man bringing it all together.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

So in 60 championship games Emi has 10 yellow cards and 3 red cards. That's a yellow every 6 games and a red every 20 games.

We have 18 games left. So we need to take care to protect him when he's on a yellow. But what do we do? Do we leave him on to help win the game or sub him to avoid a second yellow. What would you do?

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

Klopp hooked Thiago at 68 mins at 1-1; the commentators citing he was on a yellow. Liverpool immediately lose control of midfield and get stuffed 4-1. Fine lines indeed.

The difference with us is that we are useless without Emi, not one player seems to want to or can step up. When Emi doesn't play the focus tends to shift to the no.10 role, which Farke still hasn't got nailed yet.

I'd play Emi just behind Pukki and keep him well away from the halfway line and the RB position.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Capt. Pants

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

40 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So in 60 championship games Emi has 10 yellow cards and 3 red cards. That's a yellow every 6 games and a red every 20 games.

We have 18 games left. So we need to take care to protect him when he's on a yellow. But what do we do? Do we leave him on to help win the game or sub him to avoid a second yellow. What would you do?

Depends, what’s the score ? 😉

[Greavsy 2,412]

45 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So in 60 championship games Emi has 10 yellow cards and 3 red cards. That's a yellow every 6 games and a red every 20 games.

We have 18 games left. So we need to take care to protect him when he's on a yellow. But what do we do? Do we leave him on to help win the game or sub him to avoid a second yellow. What would you do?

If its a red every 20 games and there are 18 left we are fine! with 2 games to spare. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

14 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

If its a red every 20 games and there are 18 left we are fine! with 2 games to spare. 

If only.  In his last 22 games for us Emi has been sent off 3 times! So at his recent rate of sendings off expect him to get red carded three more times this season. Except he won't be because he will spend most of the rest of the season suspended. 

[Greavsy 2,412]

7 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

If only.  In his last 22 games for us Emi has been sent off 3 times! So at his recent rate of sendings off expect him to get red carded three more times this season. Except he won't be because he will spend most of the rest of the season suspended. 

Just shows that stats can he used to prove what ever you want or dont.  My post was ironic

[nutty nigel 7,513]

38 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Klopp hooked Thiago at 68 mins at 1-1; the commentators citing he was on a yellow. Liverpool immediately lose control of midfield and get stuffed 4-1. Fine lines indeed.

The difference with us is that we are useless without Emi, not one player seems to want to or can step up. When Emi doesn't play the focus tends to shift to the no.10 role, which Farke still hasn't got nailed yet.

I'd play Emi just behind Pukki and keep him well away from the halfway line and the RB position.

I get this but Emi tracking back and gaining possession is as important to us as his work in the final third. Emi is a special player all over the pitch and I love watching him. 

Nevermind the stats. Let's get Emi on the pitch as much as we can without restricting him in anyway. It's the only chance we've got.

Oh and pray for strong refs...

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

20 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Just shows that stats can he used to prove what ever you want or dont.  My post was ironic

I realised you were being ironic Greavsy, but there was as serious point to my post. Emi's disciplinary record has actually deteriorated rapidly over the last half a season or so. Unfortunately he's got himself a reputation now and this means two things.

1. Opposition managers and players will be targetting him for provocation even more.

2. Refs will have it in their minds that he's a dirty player and will be less likely to give him the benefit of any doubt. 

It's easy to get a reputation - it's very hard to get rid of one.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Thirsty Lizard