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Hank shoots Skyler

That settles it

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6 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Yes there is flaw in that logic. Look again at the statistics with him and without him over 70 games and provide a reasoned response 

 

23 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

 

No you couldn't argue that, at all. 

He's played in 26 league games, we've lost 3 times, or just about 1 in every 9.  

He's not played in 6 league games, we've lots 2 times, or 1 in every 3.

How on earth can you equate that to being 'more likely to lose when he plays'? 

Yes it is true we've lost 1 more league game when he's played than when he hasn't, but that's across more than 4 times as many matches!

I did say "Yes, I know the flaw in that logic" and that was it.
Even then though, this "1 in 3" loss without and "1 in 9" loss with assumes that the opponents are equally difficult to play against or thereabouts and equally difficult throughout the season.

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1 hour ago, K Lo said:

 

I did say "Yes, I know the flaw in that logic" and that was it.
Even then though, this "1 in 3" loss without and "1 in 9" loss with assumes that the opponents are equally difficult to play against or thereabouts and equally difficult throughout the season.

Is that a reasoned response? I give up 

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1 hour ago, It's Character Forming said:

This reminded me (uncomfortably) of that game 2 seasons back when we thoroughly beat QPR (I think it was QPR) 4-0 at home and CR was rocking and all looked nicely on course for promotion.  Then Emi, who'd been kicked regularly all game, lost it and made a bit of a wild tackle and had a straight red.  Cue him being 3 games out and also cue City failing to win any of those games.  Fortunately City clinched promotion by beating Blackburn in the next-to-last game of the season and guess who was back in the team by then....

Buendia was back the game before Blackburn, which was a 2-2 away draw at Stoke, who were 16th at the time.
With hindsight, Norwich could have just got away with losing every game after that 4-0 win at QPR as Leeds did a Leeds.

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2 hours ago, K Lo said:

 

I did say "Yes, I know the flaw in that logic" and that was it.
Even then though, this "1 in 3" loss without and "1 in 9" loss with assumes that the opponents are equally difficult to play against or thereabouts and equally difficult throughout the season.

Yes you did say there was a flaw, but you also said 'so you could argue it was more likely that we lose when he plays', which you clearly can't! 

The Athletic actually did a piece on this which actually factored in the level of the opponents and also dove even deeper in terms of our underlying passing stats when he plays versus when he doesn't. The difference they found on comparison was even starker than just looking at our points tallies with and without! 

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12 hours ago, K Lo said:

Buendia was back the game before Blackburn, which was a 2-2 away draw at Stoke, who were 16th at the time.
With hindsight, Norwich could have just got away with losing every game after that 4-0 win at QPR as Leeds did a Leeds.

Yes, we don't win 100% of the games when Buendia plays.... it's the lack of wins without him which is striking !!

 

Also arguments about where other teams ended up points-wise ignore the fact that teams are influenced by what's going on elsewhere.  If Norwich had started losing every game from that QPR result onwards, it would have given the chasing teams a boost and who knows what the result would have been.

 

But you're (again) deflecting from the massive point which is that we, as a team, were on a roll culminating in a 4-0 win,  then Buendia was missing for 3 games and we failed to win any of them, then he returned for the final 3 games and we won 2 of them.  Anyone who thinks there's no connection is fooling themselves or being deliberately obtuse.

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One must acknowledge some difficulty in distinguishing Emi as an individual from Emi as a partner in a remarkably productive relationship with Teemu.

Before he scores, Pukki starts his run and Emi passes the ball to him. Q: Does Emi create the chance or does Pukki?

I figure the duo is worth twice as much for us than they're worth separately to anyone else. Better remember this when somebody comes with an offer that looks "decent." That offer could end up costing us a season in PL.

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3 minutes ago, Upo said:

One must acknowledge some difficulty in distinguishing Emi as an individual from Emi as a partner in a remarkably productive relationship with Teemu.

Before he scores, Pukki starts his run and Emi passes the ball to him. Q: Does Emi create the chance or does Pukki?

I figure the duo is worth twice as much for us than they're worth separately to anyone else. Better remember this when somebody comes with an offer that looks "decent." That offer could end up costing us a season in PL.

Great point. It could be the golden goose effect.
Wonder if there are stats floating about on losing Emi vs losing Teemu vs both. Not sure if we’ve played enough league games without both to tell, and I wouldn’t want to experiment ...

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5 hours ago, Upo said:

One must acknowledge some difficulty in distinguishing Emi as an individual from Emi as a partner in a remarkably productive relationship with Teemu.

Before he scores, Pukki starts his run and Emi passes the ball to him. Q: Does Emi create the chance or does Pukki?

I figure the duo is worth twice as much for us than they're worth separately to anyone else. Better remember this when somebody comes with an offer that looks "decent." That offer could end up costing us a season in PL.

5 hours ago, GenerationA47 said:

Great point. It could be the golden goose effect.
Wonder if there are stats floating about on losing Emi vs losing Teemu vs both. Not sure if we’ve played enough league games without both to tell, and I wouldn’t want to experiment ...

I just love finding anything to do that isn't work... 

Firstly here is a comparison of how we do without Buendia, and how we do without Pukki. Just looking at the championship because neither missed more than 2 games separately last season and we basically lost every game in the prem anyway so what can we really draw from anything... 😄

NCFC without Buendia in the championship, 2018/19 & 2020/21

image.png.067957a0cb1889b2a67870930f711dc3.png

 

NCFC without Pukki in the championship, 2018/19 & 2020/21

image.png.7132ded60d4fdbbb6f512667f201bc8e.png

 

In terms of games where both Pukki and Buendia were unavailable, there is only one game to reference: 

Both Pukki and Buendia unavailable

image.png.58ea76edfca694c3587635249adeae2a.png

 

I do agree that both work very very well together, no one can deny that, but it is pretty clear from the above that we are still pretty capable of functioning without Pukki. The two times we have even dropped points without Pukki was during the worst injury crisis I can remember us getting through (and one of those games we were also missing Emi)!

Compare that to the Cardiff and Bristol performances with basically full squads available apart from Pukki and we got by rather well - but obviously I'd always prefer him in there! 

Taken from www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler
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1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I just love finding anything to do that isn't work... 

[]

 

Well done, that man!

Stat’s’ my weakness too, but again only if there is actual work to be done...

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