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Hank shoots Skyler

That settles it

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52 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I realised you were being ironic Greavsy, but there was as serious point to my post. Emi's disciplinary record has actually deteriorated rapidly over the last half a season or so. Unfortunately he's got himself a reputation now and this means two things.

1. Opposition managers and players will be targetting him for provocation even more.

2. Refs will have it in their minds that he's a dirty player and will be less likely to give him the benefit of any doubt. 

It's easy to get a reputation - it's very hard to get rid of one.

Totally agree - and whilst the stats also show he is the most fouled player in our team (sometimes the league - an honour he shares with Grealish I think). Maddison was also fouled a lot during his time here, but I dont recall him getting as many reds / yellows at Emi.  

Edited by Greavsy

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6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I get this but Emi tracking back and gaining possession is as important to us as his work in the final third. Emi is a special player all over the pitch and I love watching him. 

Nevermind the stats. Let's get Emi on the pitch as much as we can without restricting him in anyway. It's the only chance we've got.

Oh and pray for strong refs...

Yeah that's fair. 

I don't think anyone of us can decide now what to do with Emi next time he gets a yellow, all depends on the score and the context of the game generally, and as you say the ref. 

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3 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Hmmm. Falls into the  'very good but flawed ' category  for me.  Divisive figure, led by intimidation not example or intelligence.  Each to their own though. 

Fair enough. He's a modern great in my book. The younger Keane would be exactly what we need in the Rupp/McLean position IMO.

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You can also balance out the fact he gets sent off a lot with how he's pretty much never injured. I love Emi and I don't think we should be getting on his back over this. I feel our biggest problem at the moment is that we didn't manage to add enough quality in attack over the summer. We found some gems in midfield and defence but we still lack more pacy, penetrating attacking players who can get round players and force thinsg to happen sometimes. Placheta is still too raw and needs to fill out, Hugill gives us something different but isn't the type of player I feel we need and Dowell is another slight technical player who can't run with the ball and dribble past people like we need in that no.10 position. Emi and to a lesser extent Hernandez when he's in form are the only two who can and without Emi we've proven to be pretty toothless, I think we should be supporting him not getting on his back. 

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9 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Simplistic nonsense I'm afraid Mr Moy. Buendia has been booked 15 times in his Norwich career. On two of those occasions he has then picked up another yellow and been sent off. If he had been dragged off the moment he was booked in those 13 other games people would have been up in arms complaining. Emi just has to learn to keep his head and not respond to provocation, because he's going to get an awful lot more of it between now and the end of the season. 

OK, let us just accept he will be sent off and have the worst red card record in the Football League.  No point trying to get him to behave as it is too simplistic.....  😂

 

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

OK, let us just accept he will be sent off and have the worst red card record in the Football League.  No point trying to get him to behave as it is too simplistic.....  😂

 

I'm all in favour of getting him to behave. Arm round the shoulder, advice from Alex Tettey, Sports Psychologist - anything that might improve the situation. 

However, if we just haul him off the pitch the moment he gets a yellow card we're not trying to get him to behave are we?  We're just accepting that he's incapable of behaving himself and acting accordingly. 

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On 06/02/2021 at 23:59, nutty nigel said:

This suggests that we get 2.3 ppg with Emi and  .79 ppg when he doesn't play. If that remained the case and Emi missed another 4 games this season we would end up on 90 points.

If only things were really that simple..

 

Yeah, if only...

I know your comment was in jest but 3 wins out of 3 since he's come back in! At what point does it stop becoming a statistical coincidence? 

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As usual the middle ground is where the true is. 
Are we a one man team? No . Emi all by himself wouldn’t win a game . So that’s that . 
Are we a better team with him than without ? I can’t see any sensible argument against this . The stats are what they are . We lost Emi in the last promotion season which coincided with a dip in form , and the same happened this year . 

You could argue (it gets more subjective now) 

We started the season badly when Emi wasn’t engaged  . 
Todd , in particular, looks better with Emi on the pitch , as does Pukki . 

The other teams are obsessed with Emi and many probably change their plans because of him . 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

As usual the middle ground is where the true is. 
Are we a one man team? No . Emi all by himself wouldn’t win a game . So that’s that . 
Are we a better team with him than without ? I can’t see any sensible argument against this . The stats are what they are . We lost Emi in the last promotion season which coincided with a dip in form , and the same happened this year . 

You could argue (it gets more subjective now) 

We started the season badly when Emi wasn’t engaged  . 
Todd , in particular, looks better with Emi on the pitch , as does Pukki . 

The other teams are obsessed with Emi and many probably change their plans because of him . 
 

 

Yep at no point do I think that Emi is our only talented player at all. Indeed Cantwell has often outshined in him recent performances, but without the presence of Emi Cantwell and our other attacking players seem to struggle. 

I would say Emi's impact on players like Cantwell / Pukki etc is similar to that of Kane on Son for Spurs. Son is undoubtedly a very very good player, often looks as good or better than Kane - but when Kane isn't around Son is never as effective. 

Maybe as you say that is partly due to the opponent's attention being spread across more players. But whatever the reason, its certainly a bit disparaging to think we may have to play next season without him!

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Looking back, I can remember posting on here about how fantastic Hoolahan was for us as a creative midfielder, and worrying about how we'd replace him.

 

Then we had the odd period when we'd signed Maddison but didn't play him for quite a while.  But when we started to play him regularly he was great, in a pretty average team.  When we sold him I was seriously worried about how we'd replace him...

 

Then our stats people somehow unearthed Emi when no one else had spotted his potential.  Now, I was privileged to watch Maradona play for Argentina at Wembley in a friendly in 1981 and he was out of this world (even though England won that time !).  Among his many other facets the one that struck me most was that he could just do something unexpected with the ball which none of the other players (nor I as a spectator) could anticipate.  You could never feel safe when he had possession, no matter how many defenders were around him.  I have that same feeling with Buendia - it's just inspiring to watch him.  Not saying he's as good as Maradona, but I'd say his potential still hasn't been fully tapped and who knows what his final level may be.

 

This is a big part of the reason I watch football !

 

So my answer is to enjoy having this amazing player on the field for us, for however long it lasts.  He's been with us long enough now that wherever he ends up, it will always be remembered he made his breakthrough at City.  Also, here's hoping our stats guys are hard at work to line up another replacement....

 

 

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On 05/02/2021 at 23:56, K Lo said:

Buendia played in all 90 mins of Norwich's 1-0 loss to Watford and 81 mins of Norwich's 3-1 loss to Luton, so the correlation isn't that good.

In the Championship we average less than a point a game without him and well over 2 points a game with him. 

That's relegation form without him and a record points haul with him. Please don't tell me it's a coincidence. That's based on 13 games without him which is around 20% of the Championship games since he's been here. 

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5 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yeah, if only...

I know your comment was in jest but 3 wins out of 3 since he's come back in! At what point does it stop becoming a statistical coincidence? 

I never for one moment thought it was a statistical coincidence Hank. My post was to show that with the stats we could still go up automatically if he was absent for four games. 

Edited by nutty nigel

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3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

In the Championship we average less than a point a game without him and well over 2 points a game with him. 

That's relegation form without him and a record points haul with him. Please don't tell me it's a coincidence. That's based on 13 games without him which is around 20% of the Championship games since he's been here. 

It depends how you want to view it.
Norwich have lost 5 league games all season, Buendia played in 3 of them:
Bournemouth 1-0 Norwich [ 27th Sep '20 ] 
Norwich 0-1 Derby [ 3rd Oct '20 ] (Buendia)
Luton 3-1 Norwich [ 2nd Dec '20 ] (Buendia)
Swansea 2-0 Norwich [ 5th Feb '20 ]
Watford 1-0 Norwich [ 26th Dec '20 ] (Buendia)

Correlation does not mean causation.

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7 minutes ago, K Lo said:

It depends how you want to view it.
Norwich have lost 5 league games all season, Buendia played in 3 of them:
Bournemouth 1-0 Norwich [ 27th Sep '20 ] 
Norwich 0-1 Derby [ 3rd Oct '20 ] (Buendia)
Luton 3-1 Norwich [ 2nd Dec '20 ] (Buendia)
Swansea 2-0 Norwich [ 5th Feb '20 ]
Watford 1-0 Norwich [ 26th Dec '20 ] (Buendia)

Correlation does not mean causation.

How many of the wins has he played in? 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard

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10 minutes ago, K Lo said:

It depends how you want to view it.
Norwich have lost 5 league games all season, Buendia played in 3 of them:
Bournemouth 1-0 Norwich [ 27th Sep '20 ] 
Norwich 0-1 Derby [ 3rd Oct '20 ] (Buendia)
Luton 3-1 Norwich [ 2nd Dec '20 ] (Buendia)
Swansea 2-0 Norwich [ 5th Feb '20 ]
Watford 1-0 Norwich [ 26th Dec '20 ] (Buendia)

Correlation does not mean causation.

In this case it does. As the original poster has said we look a different team without him. Of course we have lost games with him but it's very rare. Our points tally in the Championship with him playing equates to a record for the Division. 

Or can you find another reason why we achieve less than a point a game without him? 

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10 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Of course we have lost games with him but it's very rare.

It's not rare at all. We've lost 3 with him and 2 without him.
You could argue that when he plays, we're more likely to lose ! (Yes, I know the flaw in that logic)

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31 minutes ago, K Lo said:

It's not rare at all. We've lost 3 with him and 2 without him.
You could argue that when he plays, we're more likely to lose ! (Yes, I know the flaw in that logic)

Yes there is flaw in that logic. Look again at the statistics with him and without him over 70 games and provide a reasoned response 

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48 minutes ago, K Lo said:

It's not rare at all. We've lost 3 with him and 2 without him.
You could argue that when he plays, we're more likely to lose ! (Yes, I know the flaw in that logic)

No you couldn't argue that, at all. 

He's played in 26 league games, we've lost 3 times, or just about 1 in every 9.  

He's not played in 6 league games, we've lots 2 times, or 1 in every 3.

How on earth can you equate that to being 'more likely to lose when he plays'? 

Yes it is true we've lost 1 more league game when he's played than when he hasn't, but that's across more than 4 times as many matches!

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

I never for one moment thought it was a statistical coincidence Hank. My post was to show that with the stats we could still go up automatically if he was absent for four games. 

Sorry - my mistake nutty, I misread your use of ellipsis - not for the first time!

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Just now, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Sorry - my mistake nutty, I misread your use of ellipsis - not for the first time!

No worries buddy.

I don't know what ellipsis are Hank. Is it catching? 😂

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

I never for one moment thought it was a statistical coincidence Hank. My post was to show that with the stats we could still go up automatically if he was absent for four games. 

This reminded me (uncomfortably) of that game 2 seasons back when we thoroughly beat QPR (I think it was QPR) 4-0 at home and CR was rocking and all looked nicely on course for promotion.  Then Emi, who'd been kicked regularly all game, lost it and made a bit of a wild tackle and had a straight red.  Cue him being 3 games out and also cue City failing to win any of those games.  Fortunately City clinched promotion by beating Blackburn in the next-to-last game of the season and guess who was back in the team by then....

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Just now, It's Character Forming said:

This reminded me (uncomfortably) of that game 2 seasons back when we thoroughly beat QPR (I think it was QPR) 4-0 at home and CR was rocking and all looked nicely on course for promotion.  Then Emi, who'd been kicked regularly all game, lost it and made a bit of a wild tackle and had a straight red.  Cue him being 3 games out and also cue City failing to win any of those games.  Fortunately City clinched promotion by beating Blackburn in the next-to-last game of the season and guess who was back in the team by then....

Yes I was thinking about that too. Poor Todd took the brunt of those frustrations for not being Emi!

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Just now, nutty nigel said:

No worries buddy.

I don't know what ellipsis are Hank. Is it catching? 😂

The use of the '...' at the end of sentences, I am a fan of them myself I must admit...

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Just now, Hank shoots Skyler said:

The use of the '...' at the end of sentences, I am a fan of them myself I must admit...

I do it a lot....

😂

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12 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Amazing what you learn on the pinkun….

'...pinkun' ICF 

😏 (a big fan of ... me)

 

 

Edited by sonyc
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