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horsefly

India v England

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1 minute ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

that catch looked like it flicked the glove and they didnĀ“t even show it on the review!!

Poor reviewing that. The whole thing should have been looked at.

Nevermind. It wasn't too costly although a review has gone.

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That's two reviews that look very dodgy. The stumping review certainly failed to show any boot behind the line. But the gloved catch was even worse. Why on earth didn't the umpire run the clip fully through?Ā At the very least the review should now be restored.

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Third Umpire having a shocker. I was amazed how quickly he made the call on the stumping considering how tight it was and the following decision was just blatant incompetence. He's lucky the batsman was out a few balls later.

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Ump took some time to call it out. Burns would have survived a review if he hadn't.Ā Left-handers in particular are in for a torrid time. Increasing looking like this game was to be won by winning the toss.

Edited by horsefly

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A bit of chat and banter from behind the stumps is all part of the game, but when it is going on literally a couple of seconds before the ball is deliveredĀ it starts to look like unsporting behaviour. The umpires need to tell Pant to reign it in a bit when the spinners are bowling.

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2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Increasing looking like this game was to be won by winning the toss.

I rest my case! Ultimately it doesn't do a lot for cricket to prepare a pitch this much in favour of spin bowlers. Cricket is at its best when there is something in it for both batsman and bowlers.

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As the ball has got softer, it gets a little easier to bat. Only a little, though. Poor pitchĀ 

Still 20 or so from avoiding the follow on, but I don't see the Indians enforcing that

It will be interesting to see what pitch is prepared for the final 2 tests. Clearly the Indians fancy their spinners to outperform ours, with some justificationĀ 

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Good bowling display from the Indians. Ball doing plenty, I donĀ“t think there was much more England could have done, there wasnĀ“t any silly shots by the top order, at least

I expect India to score well, they are not under pressure, and our spinners arenĀ“t as good

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I'm not sure what they do with the pitch is much different to what we do in England. The fact is we've been given a lesson in spin bowling and a lesson in how to bat on a spinning wicket.Ā 

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Another dreadful third umpiring decision. Clearly no shot played. This man can not be allowed to officiate again on this tour.

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1 minute ago, horsefly said:

Another dreadful third umpiring decision. Clearly no shot played. This man can not be allowed to officiate again on this tour.

IĀ“m not sure whether the on field umpire told the 3rd umpire that a shot was offered.Ā 

Bloody frustrating, though

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1 minute ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

IĀ“m not sure whether the on field umpire told the 3rd umpire that a shot was offered.Ā 

Bloody frustrating, though

No, me neither, but surely the third umpire could have overruled that too. And they've just showed the ball would have hit middle stump. I assume then we are back to the days of tucking your bat well behind your pad out of harms way.

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58 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not sure what they do with the pitch is much different to what we do in England. The fact is we've been given a lesson in spin bowling and a lesson in how to bat on a spinning wicket.Ā 

To a point, but even the Indian commentators were saying this lookedĀ more like a 4th day spinner on day 1. They took the gamble that they have better spinners and had a 50-50 chance of batting first. Arguably whoever batted first had a 90% chance of winning given the pitch (although, of course, that's to speculate on a counterfactual conditional for which it is impossible to establish a truth value). Just don't think it creates a very good spectacle for cricket when the pitch is such that winning the toss near guarantees winning the match.

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Outstanding wicketkeeping by Foakes this morning. Can England find a way to play both him and Buttler in the same side? If he keeps up this level ofĀ 'keeping for the rest of the series it's going to be extremely difficult to justify dropping him.

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Don't think I've even seen beforeĀ a batsman (Pujara) unable to slide his bat over the crease because it has got stuck in the pitch.Ā 

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If we can at least bat through tomorrow and get to, say, 300, that'd be a very respectable outcome. Aggers has been (quite rightly) laying into the pitch on BBC.

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1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

If we can at least bat through tomorrow and get to, say, 300, that'd be a very respectable outcome. Aggers has been (quite rightly) laying into the pitch on BBC.

Both teams have to bat on it and India put up nearly 300 even with it breaking down as time goes on. We just don't cope well with turning wickets.

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17 hours ago, king canary said:

Both teams have to bat on it and India put up nearly 300 even with it breaking down as time goes on. We just don't cope well with turning wickets.

Yes, but.... it's a lot easier to bat with abandon when you know the game is already won. The simple truth is that the game was very much determined by who won the toss, and that can't be a good thing for cricket. I have no problem with the home team preparing pitches that suit their style of bowling. However, that surely can't be to the degree such that it renders a competitive match virtually impossible. ThisĀ pitch is truly dreadful. Virtually every ball breaks through the suface and throws up a cloud of dust. Pujara couldn't even slide his bat across the surface (never seen a bat stick into the wicket like that before). That so many massively turning balls have been bowled by the spinners is not a cause of celebration but a sign that things ain't right. IndeedĀ it's almost impossible for them to bowl a ball that doesn't turn at right-angles. But such balls should be a rarity if they are to represent an example of spin bowling excellence, they certainly shouldn't be the staple ball.

This may sound a bit like losersĀ Ā sour-grapes but I don't mean it to be. My points would hold equally if England had won the toss. I just hope that the next pitch allows for a genuinely competitive match where winning the toss may offer an advantage but nothing more.

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2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Yes, but.... it's a lot easier to bat with abandon when you know the game is already won. The simple truth is that the game was very much determined by who won the toss, and that can't be a good thing for cricket. I have no problem with the home team preparing pitches that suit their style of bowling. However, that surely can't be to the degree such that it renders a competitive match virtually impossible. ThisĀ pitch is truly dreadful. Virtually every ball breaks through the suface and throws up a cloud of dust. Pujara couldn't even slide his bat across the surface (never seen a bat stick into the wicket like that before). That so many massively turning balls have been bowled by the spinners is not a cause of celebration but a sign that things ain't right. IndeedĀ it's almost impossible for them to bowl a ball that doesn't turn at right-angles. But such balls should be a rarity if they are to represent an example of spin bowling excellence, they certainly shouldn't be the staple ball.

This may sound a bit like losersĀ Ā sour-grapes but I don't mean it to be. My points would hold equally if England had won the toss. I just hope that the next pitch allows for a genuinely competitive match where winning the toss may offer an advantage but nothing more.

I'm not sure it is that simple. Mike Atherton for instance..

Ā 

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37 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not sure it is that simple. Mike Atherton for instance..

Ā 

Indeed! However I think Atherton is outnumbered by experts who think it was very much more influential. It tells you something when even Lawrence was able to make the ball turn at right angles in his solitary part-time over. And Moeen, Leach and Root turned it as much as the Indian spinners in every over so I'm not sure what Atherton is claiming there. The real difference was that Rohit scored 161 on day one. As commentators said at the time, the only feasible option was to go for it on day one because batting would become extremely difficult after that because of the( "fourth day") state of the pitch. Credit for Rohit for doing just that and riding his luck on numerous occasions. It was exactly the right tacticĀ and it paid off. To be clear, I don't begrudge the Indians their victory, they played the right tactics and deserved to win given the circumstances.

But as I've admittedĀ before, all of us are arguing counterfactually and, as any first-year philosophy student will tell you, one can't establish a truth value for such statements. Thus, none of us can prove our point either way. I just hope we don't get a pitch this bad again so that we can take this sort of question off the table, and get a genuinely competitive game that allows the true talents of the players to be the most decisive factor in determining the game's outcome.

Edited by horsefly

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