Is Idah good enough to be our second striker?

[rock bus 851]

Firstly, this is not having a go at Idah who I think is an exciting young talent with potential.

But, I've seen a fair few posts suggesting that Pukki is going through a dry spell (agreed) and should be dropped and replaced by Idah (dont agree).

I just think that some fans are expecting far too much of Idah. From the handful of games I have seen him play (Norwich and N Ireland) he has looked like a very raw player with plenty of pace and power but not extensive skill or the footballing brain to be a top player (at the moment).

I dont think he is anywhere near being at the quality to replace Pukki or even to be considered the 2nd striker for a top half championship team. In an ideal world I think he needs a season at league one football to really test how good he is.

I appreciate that with the injury to Hugil we dont really have any other options BUT there is no way I'd be dropping Pukki for Idah - but I would be trying to give him longer game time as a sub.

As I say not looking to be critical of Idah but just wondered what other fans thoughts were?

[Thirsty Lizard 3,158]

I think Idah is good enough to be our second striker in the Championship. He has pace, power and directness that neither Pukki or Hugill have. His injury this season has been really unfortunate, but lets not forget that the Republic of Ireland manager has seen enough in him, at the age of 19, to make him a first choice international striker. I'm really hoping that Adam is going to chip in with some very important goals between now and the end of the season. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,970]

The hat-rick in the cup seems an age ago. Idah hasn’t kicked on since and needs loan time away probably at league 1 level next season. 

 

[hogesar 9,657]

It's hard to say. Remember when we got promoted to the prem there were plenty on here who wanted Cantwell to go out on loan to the Championship. He made those posters look a tad silly.

There's an element of weirdness to the treatment of our young players. Some are underrated like Cantwell by a set of fans, whilst Idah is a bit overrated. He seems to have the raw physical attributes but i'm not sure he's shown a great deal yet.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,698]

Should be spending this season on loan.

[NFN FC 1,123]

I don't think he has played enough to know. Can see him being a great forward but he won't get there on the bench. I think he needs a run of games to really assess his skills 

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

He needs game time, not 3 minutes! He also needs to be played in his natural position. So a loan is probably ideal

[BroadstairsR 2,159]

I was going to suggest that:- 

1. In view of Buendia's forced absence.

2. In view of Millwall's reputation.

3. Having found out that the pitch was likely to be a problem. 

Idah replace Pukki up front, with Pukki "replacing" Buendia behind him.

A change of tactic that might have caught Millwall off-guard. Perhaps with Argos wide.

As it was Pukki was crowded out and neither Cantwell nor Vrancic played particularly well enough to supply him.

I couldn't find my tin hat though.

I wouldn't advocate this for Friday though.

[GenerationA47 751]

49 minutes ago, rock bus said:

 

I dont think he is anywhere near being at the quality to replace Pukki or even to be considered the 2nd striker for a top half championship team. In an ideal world I think he needs a season at league one football to really test how good he is.

I appreciate that with the injury to Hugil we dont really have any other options BUT there is no way I'd be dropping Pukki for Idah - but I would be trying to give him longer game time as a sub.

My thought is you’re probably about right there. And the temporary solution of giving him longer time as a sub sounds reasonable.

 Regardless of who the striker is, are they getting the ‘service’ these days? That is sometimes the other side of the coin when strikers aren’t performing & if so, would apply to Teemu & Adam alike. It doesn’t help that our tactics are being successfully marked into oblivion in recent games, for example. 
Genuinely don’t know the answer to that, so welcome observations. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

34 minutes ago, hogesar said:

It's hard to say. Remember when we got promoted to the prem there were plenty on here who wanted Cantwell to go out on loan to the Championship. He made those posters look a tad silly.

In fairness I don't think Cantwell made anyone look silly, he just dramatically improved. Genuinely believe you wouldn't have found a poster on here complaining at a loan to a championship team before last season started. Except Lakey complaining that we didn't terminate his contract instead 😄

On Idah, he has shown some good moments in games this season, he's also the kind of striker who can fashion a chance for himself out of nothing - more so than Pukki I'd say - he offers something different and something we could probably do with at the minute. So I expect we will see more of him when he gets back up to speed, but as with a few of our players at the moment he needs time to get there again. 

When he's back to fitness I'd quite like to see him playing upfront and Pukki in behind, or him playing on the left wing with Cantwell in the number 10 spot. 

I'd fancy Pukki or Cantwell to make a better go of the number 10 role than Vrancic at the minute, and Idah would be a good attacking option to allow for that switch IMO.  

Edited February 4, 2021 by Hank shoots Skyler

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

10 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I was going to suggest that:- 

1. In view of Buendia's forced absence.

2. In view of Millwall's reputation.

3. Having found out that the pitch was likely to be a problem. 

Idah replace Pukki up front, with Pukki "replacing" Buendia behind him.

A change of tactic that might have caught Millwall off-guard. Perhaps with Argos wide.

As it was Pukki was crowded out and neither Cantwell nor Vrancic played particularly well enough to supply him.

I couldn't find my tin hat though.

I wouldn't advocate this for Friday though.

I must admit, the thought of Pukki as the number 10 occurred to me as well. It won't happen.

Idah offers something different to Pukki and Hugill. And he has done something Hugill hasn't and that is international football.

[Capt. Pants 4,225]

Presumably Farke thinks he has something about him otherwise we would have gotten another striker in the transfer window and not sent Omotoye out on loan?

Surely he's worth more than 3 minutes though? 

Seems strange Dimitri goes straight in the team whem Sorensen was doing fine yet Idah doesn't get a look in when Pukki can't score.

 

[pete 318]

Reserving judgement until he plays more than 5 minutes, which could have been any time in last 2 outings.  Pukki not being given the service he has enjoyed in the past Idah might have benefitted from passes that Pukki doesn't.  We will never know until Adam is called upon which is probably when Pukki is injured rather than last 5 when  he is a spent force.  Adam will certainly give defenders more to think abpou with his pace, movement well that is a mystery not seen in those 5 minutes.

 

[chicken 2,624]

36 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

As it was Pukki was crowded out and neither Cantwell nor Vrancic played particularly well enough to supply him.

I struggle with this one. In the last two games Cantwell has been man-marked by a midfielder and the oppo defence sorted Pukki.

In those situations it is up to other players to step up to the plate. Vrancic is off form, he had two or three good chances and yet struggled to get them on target. A couple of seasons ago those were finding the back of the net from near enough identical situations. Placheta did well at times but again, failed to convert the positions he received the ball into goals or assists.

We're just a bit out of form. It's to be expected. But we also haven't lost any games. Pukki, Cantwell, McClean and Rupp are all coming back from injuries, the new lad has played 2 games in his first week in the country and we had Buendia sent off two games ago. A bit of patience is needed I think. 

[CANARYKING 637]

Hopefully they are actively looking at Temmu’s replacement, 32 now and the number of games played seems to be catching him up, lots of niggles too.

[hogesar 9,657]

41 minutes ago, chicken said:

I struggle with this one. In the last two games Cantwell has been man-marked by a midfielder and the oppo defence sorted Pukki.

In those situations it is up to other players to step up to the plate. Vrancic is off form, he had two or three good chances and yet struggled to get them on target. A couple of seasons ago those were finding the back of the net from near enough identical situations. Placheta did well at times but again, failed to convert the positions he received the ball into goals or assists.

We're just a bit out of form. It's to be expected. But we also haven't lost any games. Pukki, Cantwell, McClean and Rupp are all coming back from injuries, the new lad has played 2 games in his first week in the country and we had Buendia sent off two games ago. A bit of patience is needed I think. 

You've got a point and this comes down to having someone a bit more effective in that number 10 role because even when Pukki isn't on form and scoring his movement is generally excellent and opens up space. In my opinion it needs someone a bit quicker than Vrancic to exploit those spaces (although I accept his vision of passing has exploited at times) and again I think we miss Stiepermann a bit in this regards. Someone suggested Mclean at 10 and I don't think that's a bad shout for whats available right now.

[AJ 1,218]

Idah certainly adds another dimension, he fits out teams ethos in that he is good with passing the ball but can hold it up well like Pukki, plus he's a lot more mobile than say Hugill. Having the 3 of them to choose from this season would have been enough to give teams a headache when we make changes, sadly there's rarely been a time all 3 of been fit, and a lot of the time only 1 has been fit! Like Argos returning, Idah can be like a new signing in adding some new dimensions to our attack. He gives us a bit more presence up top.

Interesting suggestion from Broadstairs to play Pukki as the 10 and Idah up top, I certainly imagine we will see that if it's 0-0 and there's 3 minutes to go...

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

48 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Hopefully they are actively looking at Temmu’s replacement, 32 now and the number of games played seems to be catching him up, lots of niggles too.

Did you just make that up? 

He's 30.

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[Harry53 209]

I feel we lack dynamic strikers in the squad. For me Hugill doesn't impress and Adam hasn't had continuous games to improve. Wouldn't mind having Adam alongside Teemu but I doubt if that would happen. When I watch teams like Reading with Lucas Joaol and Meetei (probably both spelt wrong!) I admire the pace and strength they have. We really only have Teemu as an effective striker with DF relying on midfielders. 

If we get promotion we will need a few new players who are stronger and our game needs to be faster, until then let's enjoy what we have.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, Harry53 said:

I feel we lack dynamic strikers in the squad. For me Hugill doesn't impress and Adam hasn't had continuous games to improve. Wouldn't mind having Adam alongside Teemu but I doubt if that would happen. When I watch teams like Reading with Lucas Joaol and Meetei (probably both spelt wrong!) I admire the pace and strength they have. We really only have Teemu as an effective striker with DF relying on midfielders. 

If we get promotion we will need a few new players who are stronger and our game needs to be faster, until then let's enjoy what we have.

 

I've often felt that Lewis Grabban would have thrived in this Farke team! Getting on a bit now though, so not suggesting we sign him, somebody like him though! 

[king canary 7,599]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

 

I've often felt that Lewis Grabban would have thrived in this Farke team! Getting on a bit now though, so not suggesting we sign him, somebody like him though! 

I know what you mean- Farke's system seem to need a striker to play on the shoulder, pull defenders around and finish on instinct- it doesn't need you to play with your back to goal much and Grabban was pretty good at those things.

 

[Crafty Canary 495]

Adam isn’t ready yet tb be first choice stand in yet. The bigger issue is that should we be promoted none of our strikers are going to score the number of goals needed to stay up.

[AJ 1,218]

7 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Adam isn’t ready yet tb be first choice stand in yet. The bigger issue is that should we be promoted none of our strikers are going to score the number of goals needed to stay up.

I think an in-form Pukki certainly can, but get your point. We would definitely need to invest in a long-term Pukki replacement to bolster the ranks if we go up

[chicken 2,624]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

You've got a point and this comes down to having someone a bit more effective in that number 10 role because even when Pukki isn't on form and scoring his movement is generally excellent and opens up space. In my opinion it needs someone a bit quicker than Vrancic to exploit those spaces (although I accept his vision of passing has exploited at times) and again I think we miss Stiepermann a bit in this regards. Someone suggested Mclean at 10 and I don't think that's a bad shout for whats available right now.

I think this actually sums up the dilemma with Vrancic. You want him playing those balls into those pockets rather than being in the role where he is expected to take up those positions. I think this is why McLean was used there recently because he can and does see those spaces and attack them, again, I believe he was more of an AM when playing in Scotland.

With Rupp back and Sorenson and Tettey ready to cover, it's a decent shout.

I suspect the only other issue is that without Buendia we are short of a player who can find those spaces with passing as well. It's a fine balance to strike especially against opposition like Swansea who like to pass the ball. 
 

[vos 155]

We are very one dimensional as an attacking force and very reliant on finding Pukki with a short ball thro the defence. He looks out of sorts at the moment which does not help. Idah is still raw and don't think he would be effective with our present style. It is noticeable that neither Onel or Placheta have  looked very effective recently. With our slow predictable build up they are finding little space. We may well go up based on our possession style and experienced defence but will need a major rethink if we are to survive - again.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Hugill was starting to have an impact so happy with him, Idah.. the jury is out. Pukki looks totally out of form. I think it's worrying that our conversion rate is so poor and we really needed to strengthen but did not as much as we could have. Ivan Toney was the one we really should have aimed for but I guess our model will always struggle when buying strikers as they cost a lot. Just a simple statement of facts.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Kenny Foggo

[Samwam27 527]

I can only hope that farke sees the need to freshen things up with two games where we've looked tired and out of sorts. 

So many players have hit form and then got a niggly injuries, and we don't seem to give them games to get their sharpness up (Dowell came back, played poorly and was dropped next game, Idah only got 3 mins the other night)

I'm a fan of Sorensen and would love to see him in the middle next to Skipp, but Farke really persists with Rupp (so frustrating), but with Vrancic out of form and slow, I'd agree Mclean seems best option in No.10 to give us a bit more physical presence up front, and I feel playing him more forward suits him.

Would also like to see Josh given a chance, as he's one of the few that really goes for it, when given a chance, maybe instead of Placheta (e.g. Placheta, Dowell and Vrancic have all been very inconsistent in their performances and have disappointed to some extent)

As has been said, its a big game and we really need some of these players to step up their game tomorrow night 

[Pukki Blinders 96]

I think there's a really good striker in Idah. Whether he's good enough to be our first choice this season is up for debate, but I know the club rate him really highly and see him as the long-term replacement for Pukki. Fact is we really haven't been able to see what he's capable of this season, with Pukki's early-season good form meaning he was often on the bench or played out wide before picking up that lengthy injury. I think if Pukki is still misfiring over the next couple of games then we should certainly look to give Idah a run of starts, when he's completely up to speed and fully fit, which he isn't at the moment.

If we go up I'd definitely look to loan him out next season to maybe a lower/mid-table Championship side who like to play good football, and see what he can do. If we don't go up (God forbid) then I'd like to think the club will really put their faith in him and go into the season with him as our starting striker, and hopefully watch him kick on.

For the moment I'd certainly like to see him given more game-time. Not sure what the point is of bringing him on in left wing in the 89th minute like Farke did last time out against Millwall. Particularly as Pukki was having a mare up front, I don't know what harm it could've caused subbing him for Pukki for the last 20 minutes.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Pukki wasn't great but he still looked our best option to score. Farke maybe thought taking him off would reduce chances of scoring. I certainly think that.

Not to say Idah shouldn't have come on earlier. Just not for Pukki.

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

 

I've often felt that Lewis Grabban would have thrived in this Farke team! Getting on a bit now though, so not suggesting we sign him, somebody like him though! 

Jerome?