Attacking depth

[king canary 7,562]

Right now, my main concern is even with players out of form in attack (Pukki, Cantwell, Vrancic), none of our depth options are really pushing for a first team place

Placheta seems talented but extremely raw and prone to rash decision making, Dowell just seems lightweight and lets the game pass him by far too much, Hugill looked poor but was started to look more like it pre injury and Hernandez looks lost right now.

I know people will talk about injuries or limited minutes but fundamentally you need players like this to be able to make an impact in limited time. Right now, when we're struggling to score, I look at the bench and wonder who we can bring on to really change that.

 

[CANARYKING 634]

Idah needs to be given more than three minutes 

[king canary 7,562]

13 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Idah needs to be given more than three minutes 

For sure, Farke's occasional 89th minute sub when chasing a goal will always be confusing.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

They need game time to get up to speed. Dowell was bought as an upgrade to the 10 so needs to start and have a run of games, if he’s not playing well after 60 mins then sub him off but this whole “Vrancic in the 10” is not working right now. 

[AJ 1,218]

The last minute subs are always bizarre and do nothing but waste time, perfectly fine when you're winning but not when you're chasing a goal! For players like Idah, coming on for 3 minutes must just be depressing, working so hard to get that in return. May as well given him 10 minutes and saved Pukki for Friday to try again. We never looked like scoring in that second half and needed to try a plan B - but we don't have one

[NFN FC 1,118]

I personally want to see more of Martin and Mumba. 

Martin looks like he can really be a great player and unlock a defence. Mumba was class when he played a few months ago. 

 

[Ken Hairy 3,757]

5 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Idah needs to be given more than three minutes 

I genuinely didn't realise he'd been brought on until this morning 😂

[Indy 3,283]

I was thinking the same, but we look less threatening without Sorensen down the left he’s our best left back in my opinion, I know it’s early doors for our new signing but hell he looks slow!

Dowell isn’t a number ten, if he is then he’s not showing it, Vrancic is hot and cold but we lack quality there. I’d like to see Idahgiven more time on the pitch along with Martin in at ten.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Indy

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

26 minutes ago, Indy said:

I was thinking the same, but we look less threatening without Sorensen down the left he’s our best left back in my opinion, I know it’s early doors for our new signing but hell he looks slow!

Dowell isn’t a number ten, if he is then he’s not showing it, Vrancic is hot and cold but we lack quality there. I’d like to see Idahgiven more time on the pitch along with Martin in at ten.

Agree about Sorenson but disagree about Dowell. We haven't seen enough of him in his preferred position. Last year he, along with Skipp, was tipped as one to watch. I have high hopes for him once given 10 games to give it a go

 

[Indy 3,283]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Agree about Sorenson but disagree about Dowell. We haven't seen enough of him in his preferred position. Last year he, along with Skipp, was tipped as one to watch. I have high hopes for him once given 10 games to give it a go

 

You probably right on Dowell but he’s really not had an outstanding game at 10 for us yet when he’s been on the pitch. Can’t believe our best number 10 is tha awkward Steipermann! 😂

[ged in the onion bag 854]

begs the question what if we get promoted?   

Have to agree with the op, the depth doesn't appear adequate going forward.    Accept we aren't playing well but there are players we carry and those that come on have no impact.... the one player that generally has impact is Vrancic, and he is pretty much carried when he starts games, offers very little and his defensive work is just unacceptable.   Has to start on the bench regardless.

From the front, Pukki is far too ineffective this season, yes he's the 4th highest scorer in the league but he should be top by some margin the chances he's had..... he has no competition, Hugill, hasn't done it and Idah has been injured.    Neither have yet proved they could cut it in the EPL.   Hugill definitely won't.  

Excepting for Buendia, the final ball and finishing has been woeful with him and Cantwell the only ones consistently offering threats.    Platcheta, whose had opportunities has struggled to find enough quality and i'm not convinced it is there, he's certainly not a starter.  Hernandez needs to find fitness and the form he finished last season with so he needs to start ahead of Platcheta to get that fitness and confidence ....     Dowell, unfortunate with injury, but he's shown nothing so far in the time he has played.  Steipermann offers nothing either, not in this league so the EPL is a definite no, no.     Martin seems to have more talent than all but Emi and Todd so needs to be included.    

Funny ol game but i can only think we are top because of the team play and spirit.... too many of our players haven't performed yet.  Players that could start in that front 3... Emi, Todd, Kenny McLean, Teemu (with Adam up top) Onel and at a push Josh Martin (he needs the experience).    Mario / Marco don't cut it, Kieran Dowell and Platcheta have a lot of work to do starting as subs.  

On the evidence so far, if we go up there is so much to do to make us competitive, not convinced we are anywhere near ready.   Must be tough for Daniel with players not performing and the injuries but he remains short on his game management... we needed to change the shape and personnel against Middlesboro before half-time, yet it seemed we hardly reacted to their man marking at all and failed to take advantage of the spaces left, i.e. their right back area.   

Edited February 3, 2021 by ged in the onion bag

[Crafty Canary 495]

Should we get promoted we will need to invest in at least two proven goal-scorers of PL quality as our current strikers won’t cut the mustard. 

Teemu has been superb for us but is not the answer in the PL

Edited February 3, 2021 by Crafty Canary

[Indy 3,283]

If we go up, we’ll be looking at Idah & Soto, Famewo & Bushiri to make the step into the squad. I’m not sure if we’re obligated to buy Quintilla & Gibson but certainly wouldn’t sign Quintilla if we go up, we have one Left back on permanent injury, don’t need another injury prone left back.

Funny enough Cantwell is more suited to premiership than championship as he doesn’t get kicked and taken out the game in the top flight.

Not sure we’ll have much to spend if we do go back up, but might be able to keep Skipp for another season loan maybe?

[kirku 1,332]

54 minutes ago, Indy said:

If we go up, we’ll be looking at Idah & Soto, Famewo & Bushiri to make the step into the squad. I’m not sure if we’re obligated to buy Quintilla & Gibson but certainly wouldn’t sign Quintilla if we go up, we have one Left back on permanent injury, don’t need another injury prone left back.

Funny enough Cantwell is more suited to premiership than championship as he doesn’t get kicked and taken out the game in the top flight.

Not sure we’ll have much to spend if we do go back up, but might be able to keep Skipp for another season loan maybe?

That's a hell of a jump up for that quartet. I don't think they're ready for the Prem.

[birchfest 397]

I think we have put a little too much pressure on Idah, lets remember that last season he wasn't even close to making the squad and was well behind Pukki, Drimic and Srbeny. I know he has great potential, but I think he would have benefited from having a loan spell to get some regular football this season, instead he's got to try and effectively be the second choice striker in a team pushing to be champions which is just such a big ask for someone in the first full season in the first team. Its not like defence where you are judged on several different factors, as a striker he HAS to score or be creating assists more games then not. I think if we were to go up we would need to look for another second striker and then see if we could get him and Soto a proper loan at an upper league 1 or lower/mid Champ team.

 

I think what we are also seeing is that so much of what makes Pukki effective comes from his relationship with Buendia, the movement and the vision combined is so effective. Failing that, we need Gianoulis to start taking it to the byline and firing low balls back across the 6 yard box, that promotion season showed Temmu was really good at getting a foot, shin or knee (and one time a chest) on the ball and turning it goal wards. Just haven't created enough of those sorts of chances all season, with the exception of the Hugill goal against bristol.

[Indy 3,283]

18 minutes ago, kirku said:

That's a hell of a jump up for that quartet. I don't think they're ready for the Prem.

I don’t either, but we can’t afford to replace everyone and as I said they might be in the squad. The reality is Vrancic, Steipermann, Zimmermann, Tettey, Hernandez, Hugill, Rupp are never going to be good enough for the premiership! Will need replacements for these. Zimbo has Gibson I suppose and then we hope the likes of Sorensen, Placheta, Martin, Dowell might make that step up.

But it’s scary how short in quality we are. So I’m very hopeful that Sorensen will make that step up, we know Gibson, Pukki, Cantwell, Buendia, McClean, Krull, Aaron’s, Hanley are certainly good enough to keep us up with a few additional players of quality. But to get them we’d certainly need the cover from our younger players.

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

A lot of people say how strong our squad is but it's a combination of a few who automatic 'shoe ins' with the rest being for the future. Scratch below the surface and we just don't have strength in depth. I'm not convinced Farke believes many of the fringe players can cut it in a team going for automatic promotion which is why he tends not to make substitutions. And to be fair he's right, against Middlesbro and Millwall we were worse after the subs came on.

IF we get promoted there is going to have to be a bit of a clear out as our back-ups/fringe players are a million miles off Premier League quality.

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually end up with a back three. I’d imagine Sorensen is counted as cover for CB. This isn’t working (recently) and something needs to change

[Mason 47 1,373]

It's a vicious cycle with the current backups, who don't perform when they come in because they aren't match fit- but aren't getting the minutes to gain that fitness. The only exception to that rule has been Rupp, who retained his cup starting place past his rustiness.

I think it's most frustrating because it's inconsistent. We've seen players come on to devastating effect earlier in the season, recently they're getting the odd minute; Vrancic was a player who Farke felt 'wasn't the best physically but can make a difference late in games' but is now taken off gasping for air having struggled to contribute.

Opposition commentators love to drool over our parachute-wrought bench of Championship weapons. It's confusing why we don't use them.

 

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

Its a bit unfair to be harsh on Dowell, he’s not had much of a chance to show what he can do, being in and out since his injury.  I thought he was excellent against Reading in the second half, and I’m sure he’d do well if given a run.  I don’t understand why Sorensen can’t get a game in cm - he’s shown his worth filling in at left-back, surely we ‘owe’ him a go at his preferred role (given the main alternative is Rupp, just back from injury)....I’d be surprised if he didn’t play v Swansea, it’d be asking a lot of Rupp for him to play 3 games in 6 days just having come back.