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canarydan23

Will anyone ever play as badly...

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We need key players to be showing the way right now but instead they seem to have had a communal loss of form - Emi was rather ordinary last few games and daft to be sent off again, Todd was class v Bristol but bog-average since, Pukki doesn’t look confident on return from his injury; Placheta and Onel seem to flatter to deceive.  
It’s a bit odd, hopefully we can find our mojo on Friday.  

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At least we’re not doing as bad as Bournemouth - lost at home to Sheffield Wednesday. Owls 1-0 up halftime, Cherries equalised from a penalty, then Rhodes scored a last minute winner. That’s a run of 4 straight league defeats for them now 

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Southampton had 9 regulars out 6 Academy players on bench and 2 goalkeepers plus down to 10 men inside the first 2 minutes. we had a full squad 

No excuses

 

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1 hour ago, daly said:

Southampton had 9 regulars out 6 Academy players on bench and 2 goalkeepers plus down to 10 men inside the first 2 minutes. we had a full squad 

No excuses

 

We also didn't lose...

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24 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

We also didn't lose...

And we didnt concede 9 goals.

Cantwell struggled today but the only reasonable replacement for him was Onel who looked no better when he came on.

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Relax. They are men not machines. All teams go through this. At the moment we are still picking up points, unlike Bournemouth. 

The onus is on Farke to find solutions. Shake up the team and get them playing well again. Which he has every other time we have hit a wall.

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6 hours ago, daly said:

Southampton had 9 regulars out 6 Academy players on bench and 2 goalkeepers plus down to 10 men inside the first 2 minutes. we had a full squad 

No excuses

 

And that excuses the totally inept defending Southampton showed all game? Whether playing with 11 or 9, the basics of defending stay the same and as we hear what a great academy and self sustainable model of bringing players through that Saints have, surely they’ve learnt basic marking?
 

Also, when we had half our squad out injured, we managed to compete (and win) most games. Ridiculous comparison.

Teams have blips, we did 2 seasons ago, we will do again. That we’re doing so and not losing shows a lot. Wish some city fans could see it.

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7 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Hope he steps up against Swansea, we need a performance from him at the Liberty. 

We needed a performance from him last night. Hes a very good footballer, but also very limited. It's one thing doing it at home to a poor Cardiff side giving you all the time and space in Norfolk, and another away from home against a side determined to stop and press. 

Take Emi away from Cantwell, and his limits show. Other way around, Emi still shines. 

Cantwell's consistency often gets cited as an issue, but I feel it's more to do with his inability to affect games against teams with a certain style, and when he's not paired with a creative partner, like Emi. Conversely, he can look a world beater when everything is in place. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

...as Todd Cantwell has tonight and not get subbed?

This is not rhetorical, there is a right answer.

And the answer is "don't post silly questions". I understand your frustrations, but overreacting doesn't really help.

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20 minutes ago, horsefly said:

And the answer is "don't post silly questions". I understand your frustrations, but overreacting doesn't really help.

Is it silly because you can't answer it?

I'm a Todd fan, not one of these who gnash their teeth whenever he puts something on Tiktok or cry into their Ovaltine when he plays with his flowing locks.

But he was dreadful yesterday. And it's rare for someone to be that abject and last until nearly the final minute before being subbed.

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9 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Is it silly because you can't answer it?

I'm a Todd fan, not one of these who gnash their teeth whenever he puts something on Tiktok or cry into their Ovaltine when he plays with his flowing locks.

But he was dreadful yesterday. And it's rare for someone to be that abject and last until nearly the final minute before being subbed.

He was poor, but for my money Vrancic was even more ineffective. The pitch certainly didn't help players who rely on close control and technique to play their game.

Thread title is a bit cringey, if we're honest... are we talking in the whole history of substitutions? Or just at NCFC this season? Totally agree he should have been hooked earlier with the options available from the bench, but it smacks of the rhetoric of someone who can't hide their frustration after a few beers.

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9 hours ago, daly said:

Southampton had 9 regulars out 6 Academy players on bench and 2 goalkeepers plus down to 10 men inside the first 2 minutes. we had a full squad 

No excuses

 

Are you trying to say that our 0-0 at Millwall is worse than Southampton losing 9-0 at United? 

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7 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Is it silly because you can't answer it?

I'm a Todd fan, not one of these who gnash their teeth whenever he puts something on Tiktok or cry into their Ovaltine when he plays with his flowing locks.

But he was dreadful yesterday. And it's rare for someone to be that abject and last until nearly the final minute before being subbed.

Nope! It's silly because of the over-the-top hyperbole in the title: "Will anyone ever play as badly..." I agree that Todd had a bad day at the office, but there were also a couple of examples of his brilliance (Even acknowledged by the Laurel and Hardy Millwall commentators). I suspect Farke gambled that one of those moments of brilliance might just be the thing to secure victory. Given Todd's record that doesn't seem quite as absurd a gamble as your title suggests. 

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4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Nope! It's silly because of the over-the-top hyperbole in the title: "Will anyone ever play as badly..." I agree that Todd had a bad day at the office, but there were also a couple of examples of his brilliance (Even acknowledged by the Laurel and Hardy Millwall commentators). I suspect Farke gambled that one of those moments of brilliance might just be the thing to secure victory. Given Todd's record that doesn't seem quite as absurd a gamble as your title suggests. 

OK. An example would put me back in my box. A similarly abject performance from a player still on at 88 minutes. 

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Nothing he tried last night came off, the Milwall commentators even picked up on the fact Todd's card was marked. Pressed hard by their central midfield, he was admirable in that he didn't hide and kept trying but ultimately it was a wilting performance.

He isn't alone in this however. Pukki looked every bit a man who recently welcomed a newborn, Mario is just not the right player for #10 and Placheta is yet undercooked. When the whole front 4 have an off day a 0-0 is all you can hope for.

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Exactly, the answer to the original question is the whole team. So why pick Todd out? I wonder...

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Just now, canarydan23 said:

OK. An example would put me back in my box. A similarly abject performance from a player still on at 88 minutes. 

You obviously haven't understood my point, which is that Todd did indeed have a poor game but showed a couple of flashes of brilliance that clearly Farke hoped might be repeated and lead to a goal. There are not many players who have the "game-changing" ability to exhibit a piece of skill that can turn a game in a flash. Thus I suspect that Farke is minded to keep Todd on longer than he would do with more prosaic players in the reasonable hope that a flash of brilliance might just be forthcoming. Unlike you I didn't think that was such an egregious gamble to take given the nature of the slogfest that the game turned out to be. That the gamble didn't pay off is just a normal feature of football, just as it is a normal feature of football that none of the substitutions proved successful either. 

Finally, if you're seriously asking me to name all those footballers still on the pitch after 88 minutes who have put in very poor performances then I think you need to be prepared to wait for a few months while I compile a list (or you could just visit any fan forum after a disappointing performance and find fans making similar points to your own about some of their players).

 

 

 

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You could easily argue that Todd was the best of our front 4 last night.

The bar was low, though when all perform poorly, there may be other additional factors contributing.

Vrancic was very anonymous, with slow decision-making and a lack of penetration to his choices. 

Placheta looked callow, cautious and passive throughout (waiting for the ball, allowing himself to be isolated from the play. He is not a white-line-hugging winger in our system). He was entirely anonymous for the entire second half. 

Pukki looked sluggish in mind and body. Surprising slow to react to a number of interesting penalty spot half-opportunities. Even his work rate looked down.

subsequently Dowell again looked poor, trying too hard and a bit wooden throughout. 

Todd continued to try to do the right things, made mistakes and things regularly didn’t come off. However, he was trying the right things and those around him simply didn’t make the angles you’d like to see. 

Rupp and Skipp were very horizontal and cautious in their passing. 

Dowell’s late sticky touch - and likely bobble - is probably instructive. The poor pitch could almost explain all of the above. 

Todd increasingly looks like Grealish. Leaving aside the 2D Press PR of both, it is quite a compliment. He is increasingly noticeable and hard to keep out of the game. 

I thought Warnock was ahead of the game man-marking him against Boro. it was a big compliment and he sees what many fans don’t. He used it as a tactic to reduce quality service to Buendia. Todd is more likely to make a cute one-touch around-the-corner 3 yard pass to Emi that buys him an extra  quarter second to play in. This really matters. 

Todd did not play well last night, though he was in a group of 9 or 10 in that. He kept trying to do the right things, when others went very passive.

Todd has plenty of space to improve. That is quite a thing to say as he is pretty decent already and an interesting player. If he improved 25% in some areas he would have skills that would translate to a very high level. Creating extra time for others to make assists Is highly prized and often unseen.

Parma 

 

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
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what about Michael Theoklitos from the infamous  Colchester game (indeed you can probably picjk a few from that match!) 

To suggest that Todd's performance yesterday was the worse ever by a Norwich player who wasn't subbed is ridiculous....did you never see Fotheringham, Paul Dalglish, James Husband or Darryl Sutch for example!!

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Two of the last three games have been on really poor pitches. That is a huge factor given the way we play.

We are on a 6 game unbeaten run in which we've taken 12 points. After Swansea we will have already played the entire top 10 of the league away from home already. 

We are 7 points clear of Brentford and they go to Boro at the weekend. They have alot of work to do to bridge the gap. Our recent defensive record is outstanding.

Some fans really do have first world problems. 

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Todd was poor, Vrancic even worse, Rupp largely invisible, Placheta wasteful, Pukki can't hit a barn door. The point being Farke could have hooked any of them and did, albeit a bit late.

I understand the frustration but there are other players who should be stepping up too. It's all becoming a bit 'after you' when Emi doesn't play, and also when he does.

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Farke needs to have a quiet word with Todd I think. He is a class player and i'm sure his performance levels will improve again (tends to play well in big games on TV so expect a better display Friday) but he does need to stop throwing himself on the floor and play to the whistle. He keeps falling over and then sitting there moaning at the ref, sometimes sacrificing good attacking situations to try and buy a free kick. 

He also could do with using longer studs on some of these pitches. 

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Look, apart from the centre backs and Krul, they were all poor last night. Shoddy pitch and no obvious plan b available. Let's hope that the Swansea game offers something worth watching as I doubt that they will be so negative against us.

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There was a time when, if we went on a six game unbeaten run, taking 12pts, no one would be too worried about how we played to achieve it. 

Farke may be somewhat a victim of his own success.

What Lambert wouldn’t give to be playing this ‘badly’.

 

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