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*****Official Match Thread v Middlesbrough*****

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1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

Why are posters clamouring for subs at around 60 minutes nearly every home game then? 

Because they're posters, not professional football head coaches, would be my guess.

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Feels like a game where we're a bit too negative on our own performance and conversely not giving enough credit to Boro.

It wasn't pretty but they came with a gameplan and made it work. The man marking clearly threw Emi and Todd off their games and they stopped our fullbacks getting involved. I know Giannoulis has come in for some mild criticism but the most notable thing for me was how little we saw of Aarons in an attacking sense. Our game often relies on patient build up and those little triangles between a fullback, central midfielder and attacking midfielder- we just couldn't get those going today. It is notable that our best attacking moments often came with Hanley or Gibson stepping up to give us that numerical advantage that Aarons and Giannoulis couldn't provide today. I wonder if we'd have seen a switch to 3 at the back and Aarons pushed further up the pitch if we'd kept 11 on the pitch.

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2 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

One of our worst performances of the season, 10 men for half hour and Colin is delighted with his players. Thank god Delia never gave him the job in 97, even though it did mean we ended up with Rioch. 

Well if he had got the job he couldn't have done any worse than the clowns we ended up with over that period

 

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8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Because they're posters, not professional football head coaches, would be my guess.

Or could it be because they can all see that the momentum on the pitch has changed or that players have tired and become less effective and that we have not reacted to it?

we get away with it most if the time at this level but it hurt us last season and will do if we get back up again. 

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I think for the second week running the opposition had determined how we play, and that has to be a coaching issue for us if we are unable to impose our style. Good teams (as we were two years ago) play how they want to and let the opposition worry - we are not doing that at the moment. Middlesbro came for a draw and got one. If Vrancic had scored early on, as he should have done, it may have gone differently, but after those early chances Boro closed the space and we couldn't cope. Our passing was way off its normal level and our movement was poor. Cantwell seemed totally perplexed by being man marked and Emi was wound up enough to do what was expected. Howson dominated midfield like Styles did last week.

Poor coaching I'm afraid. Farke gets all the praise when it goes well, but he does have a blind spot sometimes when he appears to refuse to recognise the very obvious failings in his set up.

Maybe most teams won't have either the skill or the desire to play this way against us, but this is all the PL teams like Brighton and West Ham did to us last year and we lost those games because they had better players and scored against us, whilst stifling our passing. Boro didn't really go for the win which I was surprised about, but if they had the chances are we would have lost.

We will beat most in the Championship playing this way, but it's not going to get us automatic - Brentford, Swansea and Watford can do this to us all day and still break out and score. It's also not going to get us established even if we do go up. 

We have to be braver. Buendia, Vrancic and Cantwell have to show more in games like this and we needed more drive from Skipp and Rupp than we got. Boro overloaded wide to stop our fullbacks but we never used the space that opened - no runners went wide behind their fullbacks, almost no one in to the channels; all we did was play the same numbskull way.

Maclean gives us a different type of option, so does Dowell. They should both start against Millwall replacing Vrancic and Buendia.

The new left back had a very mixed game. You have to hope he'll get better but most of the time he was expecting something different to happen. Surprised he played instead of Sorensen on that showing.

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In the end, good result. When you cant win, make sure you dont lose. And with Gibson and Hanley at the back we're super solid and can always pick something up.

But Jeez, Brentford and Swansea are flying 😬. This League is far from won, and having a healthy lead at this point doesnt mean all that much, and starts to add pressure. Too early for that, we need to maintain our free flowing football and not freeze. But it's hard when your a scalp for so long.

Really not looking forward to two tough away games without Buendia. Our record with and without him speaks for itself. 

Have to say I'm  little concerned with Cantwell. Such a lovely footballer when afforded time on the ball. Pressed or man marked like today, he struggles. I fear without a creative partner in Buendia, he struggles more. A huge challenge for him now, if he can show it without Emi in the next two, It'll alleviate my concerns. But I'm not sure he will. 

 

Edited by Creedence Clearwater Couto

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4 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

In the end, good result. When you cant win, make sure you dont lose. And with Gibson and Hanley at the back we're super solid and can always pick something up.

But Jeez, Brentford and Swansea are flying 😬. This League is far from won, and having a healthy lead at this point doesnt mean all that much, and starts to add pressure. Too early for that, we need to maintain our free flowing football not freeze under pressure. 

Really not looking forward to two tough away games without Buendia. Our record with and without him speaks for itself. 

Have to say I'm  little concerned with Cantwell. Such a lovely footballer when afforded time on the ball. Pressed or man marked like today, he struggles. I fear without a creative partner in Buendia, he struggles more. A huge challenge for him now, if he can show it without Emi in the next two, It'll alleviate my concerns. But I'm not sure he will. 

 

Good post. It's one game but we'll see what happens in the next two. I think a lot of us thought it was going to be a walk in the park but the players are really going to have to grind this out. Gibson and Hanley look as though they are up for it. The rest need to do likewise.

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24 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Or could it be because they can all see that the momentum on the pitch has changed or that players have tired and become less effective and that we have not reacted to it?

we get away with it most if the time at this level but it hurt us last season and will do if we get back up again. 

And you genuinely think Farke isn't paying attention to that?

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17 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

In the end, good result. When you cant win, make sure you dont lose. And with Gibson and Hanley at the back we're super solid and can always pick something up.

But Jeez, Brentford and Swansea are flying 😬. This League is far from won, and having a healthy lead at this point doesnt mean all that much, and starts to add pressure. Too early for that, we need to maintain our free flowing football and not freeze. But it's hard when your a scalp for so long.

Really not looking forward to two tough away games without Buendia. Our record with and without him speaks for itself. 

Have to say I'm  little concerned with Cantwell. Such a lovely footballer when afforded time on the ball. Pressed or man marked like today, he struggles. I fear without a creative partner in Buendia, he struggles more. A huge challenge for him now, if he can show it without Emi in the next two, It'll alleviate my concerns. But I'm not sure he will. 

 

I know I will incur the wrath of posters but you are right about Cantwell. Dreadful today and he tackles like Bambi.

He has so much talent but it hasn't really progressed as much as I'd hoped. I'm still not convinced about him out wider. I would like him to have a spell in the middle.

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Two seasons ago we had similar issue occasionally at home when teams came to Carra, parked the bus, played physical and went away with a point and same for this season. So not surprising to me that we may get  6 to 8 draws at home just thru this reason.

Its part  and pacel of being the top team in the division, but end of the day its another point and we move on. But for a few seasons  now in the Champs i prefer when its away day match, we seem to be better away from home due to how most home teams play on their own park.

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5 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

Two seasons ago we had similar issue occasionally at home when teams came to Carra, parked the bus, played physical and went away with a point and same for this season. So not surprising to me that we may get  6 to 8 draws at home just thru this reason.

Its part  and pacel of being the top team in the division, but end of the day its another point and we move on. But for a few seasons  now in the Champs i prefer when its away day match, we seem to be better away from home due to how most home teams play on their own park.

Yeah plus we had that awesome away result at Leeds. If we can turn Swansea over in the same way it sets things up nicely.

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As I said on a different thread, I was a little disappointed with our lack of response to the aggressive man-marking tactic at half time- it was clearly stopping us from really getting going. Leaving Emi in a frustrating situation against a Warnock side was asking for trouble, and it duly arrived.

The more I see of Vrancic in the 10, the less I like it. I've traditionally been an advocate of playing him there but in this little run he's had very little sway over the matches and rather unfortunately usually looks like he's done a couple extras laps than anyone else. Time for a rest?

Farke gets a lot more right than he does wrong, it's just one of those days where it feels like the dice could have been rolled a bit sooner when it was apparent Boro had us in a box. At the very least we're talking about a draw like a loss and we go again in the week.

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39 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I know I will incur the wrath of posters but you are right about Cantwell. Dreadful today and he tackles like Bambi.

He has so much talent but it hasn't really progressed as much as I'd hoped. I'm still not convinced about him out wider. I would like him to have a spell in the middle.

Hes great when teams sit off. He's very busy with lots of quick one touch passes around the opposition area, always keeping the ball moving.

However, pressed tightly, he does does struggle a little and doesnt posses that lighting quick touch, like Buendia. When forced to play deeper, his one touch football isnt as effective and often too rushed. This is where he's guilty of losing the ball too easily, resulting in dangerous turnovers. He doesnt posses strength or power to help in those situations. 

His best work is around the oppostions penalty area, no revelations there. 

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Why are posters clamouring for subs at around 60 minutes nearly every home game then? 

Because they’re unhappy with the result normally. Changing for changes sake has zero guarantee of success. 

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17 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

As I said on a different thread, I was a little disappointed with our lack of response to the aggressive man-marking tactic at half time- it was clearly stopping us from really getting going. Leaving Emi in a frustrating situation against a Warnock side was asking for trouble, and it duly arrived.

The more I see of Vrancic in the 10, the less I like it. I've traditionally been an advocate of playing him there but in this little run he's had very little sway over the matches and rather unfortunately usually looks like he's done a couple extras laps than anyone else. Time for a rest?

Farke gets a lot more right than he does wrong, it's just one of those days where it feels like the dice could have been rolled a bit sooner when it was apparent Boro had us in a box. At the very least we're talking about a draw like a loss and we go again in the week.

Agree on Vrancic- I've always thought he needs to play deeper to make the most of the range of passing he has.

Number 10 is a bit up in the air right now. Stiepermann hasn't looked great, Dowell hasn't shown much so far and Vrancic is in and out of games. If Hugill hadn't got injured I'd wonder about playing Pukki there.

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Just now, Nuff Said said:

Because they’re unhappy with the result normally. Changing for changes sake has zero guarantee of success. 

Nothing in football has any guarantee of success.

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10 minutes ago, king canary said:

Nothing in football has any guarantee of success.

 

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1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

 

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It isn't supposed to be deep.

I just find the idea that you shouldn't make subs because it isn't guaranteed to be successful weird.

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Our problem today was the lack of drive through the middle via the No. 10 and one of the midfielders. Rather than adding Vrancic to the ball players Buendia and Cantwell we needed some strong no nonsense power. I suppose in the style of Steipermann. The very quality we lack when in the Premiership. In that context Hernandez and Placheta were disappointing. Would certainly not want to watch a Warnock team week in and out. However you have to give him credit to the basic way he set his team up. Obviously allowed Hanley and Gibson to come forward unopposed knowing that the space in front of them would be squeezed and the threat of our ball players would be nullified.

Ref sending off Buendia very harsh. Enthusiasm rather than foul play. With us down to ten men why did he allow 8 mins of injury time instead of the alloted 5 min ??

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I’ve said it already but I’m not convinced with Vrancic at Number 10. Would be putting Dowell on there for a run of games to see if he can provide more of a threat.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

It isn't supposed to be deep.

I just find the idea that you shouldn't make subs because it isn't guaranteed to be successful weird.

No but with football fans generally there's always this "why is the manager so passive, he hasn't made a sub" without realising that not making a sub is just an active decision as making one and in lots of ways a braver way to go too.

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1 minute ago, hogesar said:

No but with football fans generally there's always this "why is the manager so passive, he hasn't made a sub" without realising that not making a sub is just an active decision as making one and in lots of ways a braver way to go too.

Thats fair and we can't ever know the managers inner workings so just have to take it on trust.

I do wonder if we'd seen bigger changes (like 3 at the back) if Emi hadnt been sent off but that kind of robbed Farke of that option.

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22 minutes ago, king canary said:

Thats fair and we can't ever know the managers inner workings so just have to take it on trust.

I do wonder if we'd seen bigger changes (like 3 at the back) if Emi hadnt been sent off but that kind of robbed Farke of that option.

Id have probably subbed emi or cantwell as they were largely ineffective but I saw nothing from Placheta or Onel to really suggest they'd have done better and we all know the prior two are more likely to produce that one special moment.

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8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Id have probably subbed emi or cantwell as they were largely ineffective but I saw nothing from Placheta or Onel to really suggest they'd have done better and we all know the prior two are more likely to produce that one special moment.

Placheta and Onel could have been more effective if we had had the Hugill option to go more direct.

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7 hours ago, hogesar said:

Id have probably subbed emi or cantwell as they were largely ineffective but I saw nothing from Placheta or Onel to really suggest they'd have done better and we all know the prior two are more likely to produce that one special moment.

Spot on. A starting line up will usually contain the eleven best  players yet there is always a clamour to take some of those best players off if we aren’t winning when leaving them in could lead to that moment of magic to win the game, that moment almost out of nothing. As you’ve alluded to before that decision can be as brave as making a triple sub for the sake of it.

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