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Midlands Yellow

75 league cup final

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I remember it but not the fine detail. Didn’t realise it’s the only final with 2 teams not in the top flight. Did Norwich play well or did we not just turn up on the day similar to the Sunderland semi a few decades later?

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Didn’t play well. Was a bit of a shocker from my distant memory . Ray Graydon pen- Keelan saves - comes back of the post and Graydon sticks it in. 
Saunders said “we murdered them” after the game. I’m afraid he was right . 

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I was at both games. Neither were particularly memorable. Villa were fortunate with their penalty & I still struggle to understand why we seemed paralysed against Sunderland that day...

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2 minutes ago, Norfolk Mustard said:

I was at both games. Neither were particularly memorable. Villa were fortunate with their penalty & I still struggle to understand why we seemed paralysed against Sunderland that day...

That performance (Sunderland) was gut wrenching. I was in shock for days we were not going to be in the showcase final.

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1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

That performance (Sunderland) was gut wrenching. I was in shock for days we were not going to be in the showcase final.

Sunderland goal was offside - twice! 

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1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

That performance (Sunderland) was gut wrenching. I was in shock for days we were not going to be in the showcase final.

I had to work, so missed it. Even worse,  I was working with a Sunderland fan.........

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Didn’t we play a half-fit Fleck? My memory deceives me. I seem to remember that on one occasion his Father had sadly passed away and on another we stuck him in an Oxygen tank? Maybe broken rib or something? 
 

I do remember a few things from the 89 semi, the first is about 200 Norwich fans pissing up the back of a supermarket (Asda?) maybe. My main memory is drinking from the incorrect cola bottle. But hey, start young. 
 

That trip in 89 was great and will always stick with me. I always went to football with the old man but on that day I was with Nutty and my Grandad. I genuinely thought we’d win it. Probably the only time in my life where we were genuinely the best side in the country. Had we had Sutton THAT year, we might have done the double. But no. 
 

It was horrific afterwards when all the stuff about Hillsborough was coming out. It’s not like now, we’d know about it in seconds. The general consensus - to our shame - was that Liverpool fans had kicked off again. 
 

I suspect that closure from that disaster is still a long way off and we can all learn from having predicated ideas about people. 
 

But all I remember is - as I recall it - Chippy somehow hitting his own bar and the little nuisance but fine player, Pat Nevin smashing it in the corner. 
 

I really hate Villa Park. 

Edited by Duncan Edwards
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And..while I’m here boring you all. 
 

The 1985 cup final against Sunderland was my first foray into going somewhere else to support Norwich.

I don’t remember much from the game really, I probably annoyed the old man by just talking.. I do remember the old boy sat behind us, a Sunderland fan, and as we lifted the trophy he put his scarf round my neck and said “You’ve won this, son” and I’ve never forgotten it. Had tears in his eyes (this cup used to matter) but took the time to make it mean that little bit more to a kid who supported the other team. We could all learn from that. 

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14 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Didn’t we play a half-fit Fleck? My memory deceives me. I seem to remember that on one occasion his Father had sadly passed away and on another we stuck him in an Oxygen tank? Maybe broken rib or something? 
 

I do remember a few things from the 89 semi, the first is about 200 Norwich fans pissing up the back of a supermarket (Asda?) maybe. My main memory is drinking from the incorrect cola bottle. But hey, start young. 
 

That trip in 89 was great and will always stick with me. I always went to football with the old man but on that day I was with Nutty and my Grandad. I genuinely thought we’d win it. Probably the only time in my life where we were genuinely the best side in the country. Had we had Sutton THAT year, we might have done the double. But no. 
 

It was horrific afterwards when all the stuff about Hillsborough was coming out. It’s not like now, we’d know about it in seconds. The general consensus - to our shame - was that Liverpool fans had kicked off again. 
 

I suspect that closure from that disaster is still a long way off and we can all learn from having predicated ideas about people. 
 

But all I remember is - as I recall it - Chippy somehow hitting his own bar and the little nuisance but fine player, Pat Nevin smashing it in the corner. 
 

I really hate Villa Park. 

 

Edited by Greavsy

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1 hour ago, Greavsy said:

 

Ugh. Chippy hitting his own crossbar is branded into my brain. We had such a good side. Had Sutton been three years older we might have won the double. 

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I was on duty at both those games with the Sunderland game being the first semi final played at Hillsborough following the disaster there in 89.

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1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

I was on duty at both those games with the Sunderland game being the first semi final played at Hillsborough following the disaster there in 89.

Did you arrest many Sunderland and Everton fans for over celebrating? 

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13 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I remember it but not the fine detail. Didn’t realise it’s the only final with 2 teams not in the top flight. Did Norwich play well or did we not just turn up on the day similar to the Sunderland semi a few decades later?

Might be the only Wembley final but we beat Rochdale over two legs in 1962 and neither team was in the top flight.

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12 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

 I always went to football with the old man but on that day I was with Nutty and my Grandad. 

So your old man and Nutty are two different people ? 😂

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2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Did you arrest many Sunderland and Everton fans for over celebrating? 

Just to give you a flavour of those wonderful fans from Merseyside and this statistic always sticks in my mind there were 109 arrests that day at Villa Park. 102 of them were Everton fans for offences of drunkeness, Public Order and criminal damage. I will leave you to join the dots.

Sunderland fans were totally different.

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Back to the original topic - I remember the 75 Final well but probably not because it was shi*e.  I managed to get tickets for myself and 3 mates  from Uni - one of whose parents lived in Brixton so we all stayed there.  We were in London from the Friday (28 Feb) which coincided with the Moorgate Tube Disaster in which 43 people died.  I can remember my mate's next door neighbour being a nurse on duty at Moorgate coming home all covered in dust and dirt and being somewhat traumatised.

With  regard to the match - I just remember us being awful and the horrible goal from Ray Graydon - gave him no end of stick at Carrow Road when he was playing in a reserve match for Oxford United against us in the late 70's/early 80's?

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About the 92 FA Cup Semi, and being a bit too young, what was the feeling among Norwich fans at the time, pre-game? Was it just assumed that we'd easily beat a Second Division team and that our first FA Cup final appearance was going to happen? Must have been gut-wrenching to lose it.

Also by all accounts of what I've heard and read over the years, our 3 Wembley League cup finals were all dreadful games. Even the one we won, settled by a flukey deflection. Were the games as bad as has been made out?

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They were both pretty awful spectacles although no one would've cared had we won.

On paper we had very attack minded sides for both games but we never got going in either match. I seem to remember there was some trouble with West Ham fans outside Wembley in 1975. They'd played on the Friday night the day before the game and were marauding around looking for Norwich supporters.

With Sunderland being the opposition the 1992 game was a much more friendly affair and it was played on a Sunday. We had more chances than those shown in the YouTube highlights. We missed Robert Fleck who despite intensive treatment for a cracked rib in some sort of oxygen capsule failed to recover in time. I think we always knew he wouldn't be fit.

On an aside about the 1989 Semi Final I don't think the full highlights of that game have never been shown on TV. Obviously MOTD was focussed entirely on the Hillsborough disaster and the only reference to our game was at the end of the programme when anchorman Jimmy Hill simply said,  " In the other SF Everton beat Norwich City 1-0 at Villa Park ". That was it.

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15 minutes ago, alex_ncfc said:

Also by all accounts of what I've heard and read over the years, our 3 Wembley League cup finals were all dreadful games. Even the one we won, settled by a flukey deflection. Were the games as bad as has been made out?

I think the 1973 Final was perhaps the best as we were big underdogs. Tottenham had some star names including Martin Peters and in truth I thought we'd lose by more than the one goal.

We deserved to beat Sunderland in 1985. They offered nothing really apart from the missed penalty.

The worst was probably the game in 1975, both teams were poor, but although it wasn't at Wembley the biggest disappointment was in 1992. We had a superb team and were playing a team in a lower division so it seemed likely that we would go through. The other match was Liverpool /Portsmouth who were also the division below so we were all hoping they would win.

In the end LIverpool beat Sunderland 2-0 at Wembley in a regulation win hardly getting out of second gear.

Someone commented that had Norwich got through it would have been a better Final. That was probably true.

Edited by ......and Smith must score.

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On 1/29/2021 at 12:57, TIL 1010 said:

So your old man and Nutty are two different people ? 😂

@Duncan Edwards

Or have you disowned NN as your dad. 

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The thing with the 75 final was about half the team were unfit.  John Bond admitted afterwards he was guilty of playing people who in a league match would have never been considered.  He just felt he owed it to some of the players a cup final game at Wembley. 

Machin was the most obvious player carrying an injury, his thigh was heavily strapped.  Macdougal and Boyer were both injured, MacDougal could hardly run, every ball sent to him he lost and the ball just kept coming back. 

Remember this was when you only had one sub, so Bond couldn't risk bringing a sub on until one of the players carrying an injury could literally not move any more, just in case another pulled up. 

Given that in the end Villa only beat us with a penalty rebound, the question of what would we have done playing fit reserve players instead of the injured stars is one that is still argued over.

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45 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

The thing with the 75 final was about half the team were unfit.  John Bond admitted afterwards he was guilty of playing people who in a league match would have never been considered.  He just felt he owed it to some of the players a cup final game at Wembley. 

Machin was the most obvious player carrying an injury, his thigh was heavily strapped.  Macdougal and Boyer were both injured, MacDougal could hardly run, every ball sent to him he lost and the ball just kept coming back. 

Remember this was when you only had one sub, so Bond couldn't risk bringing a sub on until one of the players carrying an injury could literally not move any more, just in case another pulled up. 

Given that in the end Villa only beat us with a penalty rebound, the question of what would we have done playing fit reserve players instead of the injured stars is one that is still argued over.

Machin couldn’t have been that injured. It was a magnificent save . 

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On 29/01/2021 at 00:47, Duncan Edwards said:

Didn’t we play a half-fit Fleck? My memory deceives me. I seem to remember that on one occasion his Father had sadly passed away and on another we stuck him in an Oxygen tank? Maybe broken rib or something? 
 

I do remember a few things from the 89 semi, the first is about 200 Norwich fans pissing up the back of a supermarket (Asda?) maybe. My main memory is drinking from the incorrect cola bottle. But hey, start young. 
 

That trip in 89 was great and will always stick with me. I always went to football with the old man but on that day I was with Nutty and my Grandad. I genuinely thought we’d win it. Probably the only time in my life where we were genuinely the best side in the country. Had we had Sutton THAT year, we might have done the double. But no. 
 

It was horrific afterwards when all the stuff about Hillsborough was coming out. It’s not like now, we’d know about it in seconds. The general consensus - to our shame - was that Liverpool fans had kicked off again. 
 

I suspect that closure from that disaster is still a long way off and we can all learn from having predicated ideas about people. 
 

But all I remember is - as I recall it - Chippy somehow hitting his own bar and the little nuisance but fine player, Pat Nevin smashing it in the corner. 
 

I really hate Villa Park. 

Think his dad passed away before the 89 SF, and yes was injured v Southampton and went in tgevoxgen tank to aid recovery for 92 

Never understood why Lee Power wasn't a sub with fleck a risk, power was in good form in the run up.

Wembley helped me get over the play off final loss in Cardiff. I pray one day something happens to help me get over Sunderland.

Going back to the 89 SF which obviously got put into perspective that day, am I right in thinking we were due to play Sheff wed in the league at Hillsborough on that day?

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On 29/01/2021 at 15:39, Lord Horn (again) said:

Back to the original topic - I remember the 75 Final well but probably not because it was shi*e.  I managed to get tickets for myself and 3 mates  from Uni - one of whose parents lived in Brixton so we all stayed there.  We were in London from the Friday (28 Feb) which coincided with the Moorgate Tube Disaster in which 43 people died.  I can remember my mate's next door neighbour being a nurse on duty at Moorgate coming home all covered in dust and dirt and being somewhat traumatised.

With  regard to the match - I just remember us being awful and the horrible goal from Ray Graydon - gave him no end of stick at Carrow Road when he was playing in a reserve match for Oxford United against us in the late 70's/early 80's?

Remember the tube stopping at Moorgate station on the day of the final(different line obviously) & the whole train falling silent. 
With regard to the final just remember Johnny Miller putting two corners straight outbehind the goal

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5 hours ago, glory.win or die. said:

Think his dad passed away before the 89 SF, and yes was injured v Southampton and went in tgevoxgen tank to aid recovery for 92 

Never understood why Lee Power wasn't a sub with fleck a risk, power was in good form in the run up.

Wembley helped me get over the play off final loss in Cardiff. I pray one day something happens to help me get over Sunderland.

Going back to the 89 SF which obviously got put into perspective that day, am I right in thinking we were due to play Sheff wed in the league at Hillsborough on that day?

You are correct GWorD.

https://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2020/05/05/tales-from-the-city-robert-fleck/

In 1989, on the day before our semi-final against Everton at Villa Park, I spoke to my dad on the phone after lunch and some of the boys had gone out but I was just relaxing in the hotel. Then, at about four o’clock, there was a big bang on my door and it was the gaffer who wanted me to go and talk to him. We walked along the corridor and he looked so serious that I thought, ‘If I am not playing tomorrow I am going home’.

I couldn’t think of anything else he would want to talk to me about other than that for some reason he was going to leave me out for the semi-final. But then he told me it was bad news. My dad, John, had died, aged 46. He’d had a heart attack, not that long after I had spoken to him on the phone.

My first thought was for my mum. I phoned her and said, ‘Right I’m on the first flight up to you’. She told me I should stay and play but I wanted to be with her. It was when I was on the plane from Birmingham that I thought I should have stayed and played, just for my dad. The fact that I didn’t is the one big regret I have about my football choices.

I spent the next day at home in Glasgow with my mum and my family. We knew Norwich had lost, but that was also the day when the Hillsborough disaster happened at the other semi-final, and that put football in perspective. But I do wish I had played for Norwich against Everton for my dad.

Three years later, we reached the semi-final again. I got my ribs broken by Glenn Cockerill of Southampton at our place in a quarter-final replay. It happened in the first five minutes but the doctor gave me an injection and I stayed on and then Matt Le Tissier got sent off for kicking me. We got through to the semi-final and I spent time in an oxygen chamber to help my recovery.

This time our semi-final was at Hillsborough, against Sunderland. I asked the gaffer if I could play in a reserve game on the Tuesday before we travelled for the semi. I needed a half-hour run out. But he said, ‘No, because I want to make out you will not be fit for Saturday.’ He was trying kidology.

I was desperate to play at Hillsborough, because I had missed the 1989 one and I thought I owed the fans, myself and my dad. I did play. It was one of my worst days in football. We were the better team and had chances to win the game. But John Byrne, who had scored in every round, got the only goal. It was my biggest heartbreak in football. I just sat by a post at the end and cried.

The defeat was crushing because, if I am honest, we all choked. We had been favourites but we didn’t turn up. And the other reason it was crushing was that semi-finals had a connection in my mind with my dad.

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On 29/01/2021 at 17:41, alex_ncfc said:

About the 92 FA Cup Semi, and being a bit too young, what was the feeling among Norwich fans at the time, pre-game? Was it just assumed that we'd easily beat a Second Division team and that our first FA Cup final appearance was going to happen? Must have been gut-wrenching to lose it.

Also by all accounts of what I've heard and read over the years, our 3 Wembley League cup finals were all dreadful games. Even the one we won, settled by a flukey deflection. Were the games as bad as has been made out?

I loved 85, my first trip to Wembley. As the cup was held aloft I thought I’ve seen us win at the home of football, I’ll never want for anything else - ever. Little did I know that in the early 90s I would be leaving Carra after the West Ham game knowing we were in the F.A Cup semis and we were top of the football league- realistically we were on for the double. The Double. Simply put that scenario will never ever reoccur in any of our lifetimes. I still remember 85 fondly, loved those players, but I know we should of won the league (and would of done if we had strengthened the team with a loan towards the end of the season to mitigate against injuries). Ian Dowie was available....

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