The Unforgiven

[curious yellow 184]

Anybody think it might be a good idea to bring any of the Trybull/Leitner/Drmic back to the club for the rest of the season?

It would increase their chances of getting a permanent move, this would give us more options with the squad next season. 

Perhaps they could take part in the cup games which would lessen the chance of injuries affecting our league position. 

Jonathan Tomkinson has mentioned how much advice from Drmic in  has helped his game.We lost points recently by not having a recognised striker

Evidently we are paying £20,000per week for Trybull's wages to Blackburn's £2,000.

Perhaps it's time to forgive? 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

Never fond of this ostracisation of players still on the pay-roll, makes little sense to me other than the fact that the manager must have very good reasons for taking that line.

From every other angle it's a puzzle, and it's expensive.

 

[GenerationA47 747]

Never be, never see- won’t see what might have been

[Alex Moss 2,165]

6 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

Anybody think it might be a good idea to bring any of the Trybull/Leitner/Drmic back to the club for the rest of the season?

It would increase their chances of getting a permanent move, this would give us more options with the squad next season. 

Perhaps they could take part in the cup games which would lessen the chance of injuries affecting our league position. 

Jonathan Tomkinson has mentioned how much advice from Drmic in  has helped his game.We lost points recently by not having a recognised striker

Evidently we are paying £20,000per week for Trybull's wages to Blackburn's £2,000.

Perhaps it's time to forgive? 

No way will Farke break his own code. That would speak volumes to every other player on the books now, and in future. That precedent will not be broken, of that I’m sure.

Sounds like Leitner will be on his way this window from reports today, in which he spoke professionally and with good will regarding his time here. I’d imagine Tommy T will stay at Blackburn unless we receive a bid this window. Not sure about Drmic, the fact no ones snapped him up at the start of the window makes me wonder...

[AJ 1,218]

We don't know what happened behind the scenes so it is a very hard thing to comment on. I hardly think they would have been frozen out without very good reasons, and Farke seems like a fair guy.

Leitner, something appeared to happen behind the scenes that led to him being left out (plus his injuries)

Trybull would probably have stayed if Tettey hadn't have been signed on for another year I guess which is why he was loaned out.

Drmic was given more than enough game time last season to prove he just isn't up to the job and we signed Hugill to replace him

[sgncfc 1,221]

19 minutes ago, AJ said:

We don't know what happened behind the scenes so it is a very hard thing to comment on. I hardly think they would have been frozen out without very good reasons, and Farke seems like a fair guy.

Leitner, something appeared to happen behind the scenes that led to him being left out (plus his injuries)

Trybull would probably have stayed if Tettey hadn't have been signed on for another year I guess which is why he was loaned out.

Drmic was given more than enough game time last season to prove he just isn't up to the job and we signed Hugill to replace him

None of which explains why they have been completely ostracised - Hughton did this with Becchio, again without explanation, and supporters surely have a right to know why these players are suddenly out of favour - not just "not being selected" but deemed to be such a negative influence on the squad that they are not even allowed to be in contact? Not being good enough isn't a reason for being treated this way - especially someone like Trybull, who certainly was good enough.

[astro 358]

Maybe it’s because Farke felt they tried to dictate the way the team played the game too much? Managing a squad and maintaining team spirit, I would imagine, is a very difficult task, and I’m sure all managers or coaches have their own unique ways of doing this. Maybe this is just Farke’s way of doing it. 

[Nuff Said 5,088]

47 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

None of which explains why they have been completely ostracised - Hughton did this with Becchio, again without explanation, and supporters surely have a right to know why these players are suddenly out of favour - not just "not being selected" but deemed to be such a negative influence on the squad that they are not even allowed to be in contact? Not being good enough isn't a reason for being treated this way - especially someone like Trybull, who certainly was good enough.

On what planet do we have a right to know? I could understand an argument that shareholders might have some right to be told about internal management of the club, although it's not a very strong one IMHO. But supporters have very few "rights" to anything.

[curious yellow 184]

1 hour ago, Alex Moss said:

No way will Farke break his own code. That would speak volumes to every other player on the books now, and in future. That precedent will not be broken, of that I’m sure.

Sounds like Leitner will be on his way this window from reports today, in which he spoke professionally and with good will regarding his time here. I’d imagine Tommy T will stay at Blackburn unless we receive a bid this window. Not sure about Drmic, the fact no ones snapped him up at the start of the window makes me wonder...

Perhaps with Drmic it is the way he has been treated that has made buyers suspicious. 

Leitner was very diplomatic but did point out that he was part of the success here. He looked very good in the first few games last season. His exclusion coincided with the deterioration in results. 

As for codes and precedents, we expect Buendia to stay because he is under contract and we expect loyalty to this contract. These three players are also under contract but we want them to go and find another club or we will put their future career at risk. 

Shouldn't loyalty to contract be a two way thing and won't this action discourage other players from joining? 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

10 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

Perhaps with Drmic it is the way he has been treated that has made buyers suspicious. 

Leitner was very diplomatic but did point out that he was part of the success here. He looked very good in the first few games last season. His exclusion coincided with the deterioration in results. 

As for codes and precedents, we expect Buendia to stay because he is under contract and we expect loyalty to this contract. These three players are also under contract but we want them to go and find another club or we will put their future career at risk. 

Shouldn't loyalty to contract be a two way thing and won't this action discourage other players from joining? 

Nope, almost every club will have one or two who are sidelined for one reason  or another. Its a tough business  , the club pays  the players...that doesn't mean that they  have to play the players. We hold their contracts , end of story. 

Just be glad it's not us paying Mezut Ozil 350 k a week NOT to play. 

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

I was on board with bringing Drmic in when we had no recognised striker, as I felt Farke could've made exception to his stance on the unfavoured players for a couple of games, without compromising the overall atmosphere in the dressing room.

But now with most of the team getting back to fitness I don't really see the point. We have plenty of players we want to see more of in the cups already who need fitness and actually might have a future with the club (e.g. Hugill, Idah, Placheta, Martin, Hernandez, Barden, Rupp, Quintilla, Mumba). 

That said I do wonder if the approach is maybe a tad harsh, especially when it is done without serious justification. 

I suppose the attitude is to try to make things as untenable as possible for the player (within ethical reason of course), in order to get them to leave. But the trouble is when they don't take the hint, they become even less of an attractive proposition for other clubs with zero game time. The act of freezing the player out also impacts the perception of that player and immediate questions of their attitude are raised - often incorrectly. So it's a bit of a vicious circle. 

I personally believe there could be a middle ground where players are advised they should look to leave and are kept at an arm's length, but not frozen out to the point that they can't even be drafted in temporarily to resolve a severe injury crisis. But easier said than done perhaps!

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

Just now, wcorkcanary said:

Shouldn't loyalty to contract be a two way thing and won't this action discourage other players from joining

We pay  them  , that's our half of the deal honoured. 

[pete 318]

3 places in squad of 25 to be taken up by players the coach doesn't rate, leaves coach with 3 less options in playing squad.  I think we can trust Farke's judgement. 

[Gordon Bennett 780]

Not sure why this is even a discussion, particularly in light of how well we are doing without them. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

2 hours ago, curious yellow said:

Anybody think it might be a good idea to bring any of the Trybull/Leitner/Drmic back to the club for the rest of the season?

It would increase their chances of getting a permanent move, this would give us more options with the squad next season. 

Perhaps they could take part in the cup games which would lessen the chance of injuries affecting our league position. 

Jonathan Tomkinson has mentioned how much advice from Drmic in  has helped his game.We lost points recently by not having a recognised striker

Evidently we are paying £20,000per week for Trybull's wages to Blackburn's £2,000.

Perhaps it's time to forgive? 

No, we're not!!!

This was based on Trybull's wages when we were in the Premier League. As Webber has repeatedly made clear all of our players had clauses in their contracts that they would have substantial wage reductions if we were relegated. 

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

2 hours ago, sgncfc said:

None of which explains why they have been completely ostracised - Hughton did this with Becchio, again without explanation, and supporters surely have a right to know why these players are suddenly out of favour - not just "not being selected" but deemed to be such a negative influence on the squad that they are not even allowed to be in contact? Not being good enough isn't a reason for being treated this way - especially someone like Trybull, who certainly was good enough.

No!  Supporters do not have a 'right to know' every dot and comma of the individual relationships between the club and all it's players. Talk about a bloated sense of over entitlement!

 

[Beefy is a legend 224]

None of them are coming back. 

We should move on to discuss the players that are here. 

[curious yellow 184]

40 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Nope, almost every club will have one or two who are sidelined for one reason  or another. Its a tough business  , the club pays  the players...that doesn't mean that they  have to play the players. We hold their contracts , end of story. 

Just be glad it's not us paying Mezut Ozil 350 k a week NOT to play. 

 

I'm not suggesting that we play them in the league, but they may be useful in the cup or helping the young players, also making them easier to sell. 

Basically not making it quite so obvious that they have been banished. Klose was treated differently and moved on pretty quickly. 

Legally we have to pay them, but we are asking them to leave so we don't have to pay them. 

 

[NorthCarolinaYellow 197]

I remain not all that bothered with the positions of the 3 relative to Norwich, but it is odd that nobody has come after Leitner or Drmic on a transfer or loan. Perhaps neither are keen to make a move to a league they see as beneath them? I'd think they'd have ample opportunities at bottom half Championship clubs and in Scotland, 2 Bundesliga, Austria, Holland, etc.?

[Jersey Canary 143]

Didn’t Leitner fall out with Farke about November 2019.
Farke said Trybull was the type of player who is not good around the changing room when he’s not playing and with Drmic we just wanted to go in a different direction? 

[NorthCarolinaYellow 197]

Reading between the lines, something almost certainly happened with Leitner. I don't remember anything at all about Trybull or Drmic?

[shefcanary 2,383]

30 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

No, we're not!!!

This was based on Trybull's wages when we were in the Premier League. As Webber has repeatedly made clear all of our players had clauses in their contracts that they would have substantial wage reductions if we were relegated. 

 

Perhaps with Drmic the issue is that although he took a cut in basic salary, it was offset by increased appearance money.  If further negotiations did not bring a resolution, in the end its cheaper not to play him.  Given his last few performances even that lower salary is not attractive enough to other clubs to take the plunge. Given Klose is playing so well at Basle, it really is a shock that Drmic hasn't found a club in Switzerland at least.  His contractual demands must be unrealistic.

[curious yellow 184]

39 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

No, we're not!!!

This was based on Trybull's wages when we were in the Premier League. As Webber has repeatedly made clear all of our players had clauses in their contracts that they would have substantial wage reductions if we were relegated. 

 

Just quoting the SportsMole article with the Leitner interview. Don't know how accurate this is but I remember Farke saying that we are paying Trybull to play for Blackburn. 

[king canary 7,578]

3 hours ago, curious yellow said:

Anybody think it might be a good idea to bring any of the Trybull/Leitner/Drmic back to the club for the rest of the season?

It would increase their chances of getting a permanent move, this would give us more options with the squad next season. 

Perhaps they could take part in the cup games which would lessen the chance of injuries affecting our league position. 

Jonathan Tomkinson has mentioned how much advice from Drmic in  has helped his game.We lost points recently by not having a recognised striker

Evidently we are paying £20,000per week for Trybull's wages to Blackburn's £2,000.

Perhaps it's time to forgive? 

OK but...why?

Who should Trybull or Leitner be in the squad above?

Drmic I can kind of understand when we had a striker crisis but again, is he offering more than Hugill? Unlikely.

[hogesar 9,616]

Bring them back in place of who? Who do they get ahead of?

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

1 hour ago, curious yellow said:

Just quoting the SportsMole article with the Leitner interview. Don't know how accurate this is but I remember Farke saying that we are paying Trybull to play for Blackburn. 

Sure - it is well known that we are still paying some of Trybull's wages - I was just taking issue with the idea that we are paying him £20,000 a week to do so. 

[curious yellow 184]

22 minutes ago, king canary said:

OK but...why?

Who should Trybull or Leitner be in the squad above?

Drmic I can kind of understand when we had a striker crisis but again, is he offering more than Hugill? Unlikely.

For the reasons I said. 

I understand that they are eligible for FA Cup games. 

They have got a much better chance of getting a move if they are training and involved. 

I can't believe people would prefer us to be paying them to be in Germany playing keep-ups with a packet of crisps. 

[Nuff Said 5,088]

10 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

For the reasons I said. 

I understand that they are eligible for FA Cup games. 

They have got a much better chance of getting a move if they are training and involved. 

I can't believe people would prefer us to be paying them to be in Germany playing keep-ups with a packet of crisps. 

Source? Not Gary Lineker?

[king canary 7,578]

11 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

For the reasons I said. 

I understand that they are eligible for FA Cup games. 

They have got a much better chance of getting a move if they are training and involved. 

I can't believe people would prefer us to be paying them to be in Germany playing keep-ups with a packet of crisps. 

Unless I've missed something, Trybull is on loan at Blackburn so not doing keepy-ups.

Leitner has been out for well over a year now and seems to have a pretty well documented attitude problem.

Drmic I kind of agree- that interview with him seemed to suggest he's been pretty much told not to show up anymore which feels harsh.

[hogesar 9,616]

17 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

For the reasons I said. 

I understand that they are eligible for FA Cup games. 

They have got a much better chance of getting a move if they are training and involved. 

I can't believe people would prefer us to be paying them to be in Germany playing keep-ups with a packet of crisps. 

I'd rather be paying them to be exactly where we want them to be, which appears to be away from the team. And a quick glance at the league table suggests it's doing us alright.