ITFC

[JUBWICKS75 48]

18 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Marcus Evans.

Yeah possibly, he should have invested when we were pushing for promotion. Norwich have achieved with youth development or very good purchases without Delia spending huge amounts, and to me there lies the problem, Roy Keane cleared out our potential and spent unwisely. 

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, JUBWICKS75 said:

Yeah possibly, he should have invested when we were pushing for promotion. Norwich have achieved with youth development or very good purchases without Delia spending huge amounts, and to me there lies the problem, Roy Keane cleared out our potential and spent unwisely. 

And now the club is just an albatross, which he has to keep bailing out to stop it going into liquidation. He knows that if he sacks Lambert, those millions in compensation will have to come out of his own pocket. If you don't get up this season, with the wage cap you're going to be in all sorts of bother next year.

I actually thought that League One might turn out to be a good thing for ITFC in the same way it was for us - an opportunity to clear out the deadwood and build some positive momentum, focus on the youth and all that. I just can't see promotion happening for you this season, and that will mean selling the likes of Downes, Woolfenden and Dozzell just to stay afloat.

It's one hell of a predicament you're in, that's for sure.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

There actually was one game when it appeared that the ice had thawed, and bygones were bygones. 

In January 2017 we beat Lambert's Wolves side 3-1 at Carrow Road. It was the first time we had beat him since he'd left. After the game he walked across the pitch to applaud the Wolves fans. As he walked back, he got polite applause from the Barclay - I know as I was in there. He acknowledged it, clapped back, and left the pitch. That was the first, and only time, that he got that reception because it wasn't too long after that he joined the binmen. 

That rather noble act from our fans stood in contrast to Lambert's behaviour with Villa, particularly that league cup quarter final when he was high fiving his entire bench with about 5 minutes remaining, really rubbing it in. It's clear that there was a heavy fall out with McNally and both sides held some serious animosity. Lambert has, since, claimed that he never got an acknowledgment from any NCFC staff ever since, upon his return with any side. Since he attempted to sue the club, that's hardly surprising to be fair.

I've seen several players from that time talk about the coaching/management team then. Grant Holt certainly confirmed that Lambert didn't take training, which was almost solely organised by Culverhouse. That is a fact. Lambert was the Martin O'Neill figure, remaining slightly aloof, turning up for the big teamtalks, motivating and cajoling. On the bench during games I think you could see that Culverhouse drove alot of tactical discussions and seemed actively involved in substitutions and formation changes etc. You can't dismiss either as playing an important role, but the inescapable fact is that Lambert has had little success ever since his break with Cully and Karsa. Whatever even happened at Villa?

Ipswich fans' big complaint now is how poorly coached their players are. Most of them believe their squad is good enough to compete for the top two. There seems to be something of a reluctance to really commit to youth - two 35 year old full backs v Swindon tells you everything about their approach compared to ours. Farke would never do that. Webber wouldn't allow it. 

The same players such as Holt will tell you that Lambert was an excellent man-manager during that period and it would be wrong not to acknowledge that. But it was that, allied with Culverhouse's training and tactical knowledge, the fact we had several players way better than that level (Holt, Hoolahan, Martin, Russell, Drury, , Whitbread, Forster) that led to success. Without those other supporting elements, Lambert hasn't come close to replicating his success here. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Beefy is a legend

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Something else I wanted to say on this subject, which I've been mulling over a while and would be very interested in other people's views.

I don't know whether this makes us better or worse fans than them, but if we had been given what they have endured over the last 10 seasons, especially the last 5, I can't believe that we would have taken it with such good grace, or perhaps one might call it apathy.

We'd have had protests every home game at Carrow Road. Evans would have been getting dog's abuse left, right and centre, possibly even to the point of disruption of his other businesses. Christ - we aren't doing too badly as a club right now but there are still plenty of detractors against our current owners even in our current, healthy, position. 

We've had very little of that from ITFC fans. They are almost glumly accepting their fate. A banner outside Playford Road is as tough as it has got - appreciate in Covid times it's difficult to do more but things have been bad there for a very long time. 

 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

It's not quite cut and dried with ITFC. Without the money Evans sustains them with the club would go bust. Many just accept this and accept him, whilst dreaming that a 'rich investor' will ride into town on his white horse, saddlebags packed with dollar notes, in the foreseeable future. 

You could, of course, blame Evans for his organisation of the club, his appointment of non-footballing individuals like the present Lee O' Neill to oversee things (there have been three or four failures in this respect,) and his managerial selections all of which reek of limitations in thinking that contrast sharply with our own 'owners' more involved and innovative approach.

You could, God forbid, suggest that they have been unlucky, whereas we have not. However, some clubs attract failure and latter-day  story of ITFC seems to suggest this being the case for them. An unknown factor that is difficult to finger, but nothing, nothing they ever do nowadays seems to come off. Managers fail with appalling consistency and seemingly decent signings seem unable to produce for one reason or another, and I'm now talking League One here. It's a drip, drip of a decline that seems irreversible. It infects everything from the training ground to the treatment table to the maintenance of the infrastructure. It's a 360 degrees circle of ****e, with hardly a positive in sight.

Perhaps this consistent failure of almost everything connected with the club is the inevitable outcome of a decline to be expected for a small town, rural club in this day and age and  which has also overstretched as a result of looking to the past overmuch. It is a fair comment that their collective obsession with their 'history' has impacted negatively upon their present.  

There never seems any light at the end of their tunnel. They exaggerate the talents of their youngsters whilst never producing a Cantwell or even an Idah, their scouting never produces a Buendia, a Hernandez or a Pukki and they are miles away from the approach and the financial clout that brought us a Madisson, Lewis, Godfrey or Aarons. Their academy remains firmly stuck at level two.

The long-term fortunes of any professional football club are subject to a roller coaster ride. Even Accrington Stanley, those notorious nobodies, are currently in revival (and leaving Ipswich in their wake,) but any such change of fortune seems completely beyond the scope of ITFC as they sink deeper into the quicksand.

We should gloat more perhaps (they would)  but it would surely be a case of kicking a sick dog. I have always been under the impression that their rivalry threshold is lower than ours. They dislike us more than we do them and spend more time concerned with us than we worry about them; banknote waving, countdown clocks, banners on bridges and light aircraft being solely an Ipswich 'thing.' Perhaps this is because in many ways we are the 'big brother,' being the club of the City which is the centre of East Anglia.

Our failure last season was their highlight and whereas their rivalry has remained at the traditional level ours has, in some ways, become academic in as much as assessments such as this and the previous post have become more commonplace.

They do seem to funnel their ideas and efforts against NCFC rather more than they do against the misgivings of their owner. No light aircraft with an 'Evans Out'  banner is likely to fly over Portman Road in the near future as far as I know.

TWTD outrage seems to present the limit of their protesting.

One thing must surely be certain   ..... even the most fervent anti-Evans Ipswich fan cannot want his connection with the club severed more than Marcus Evans must do himself.

It would all be a tragedy of Shakespearian proportions were it all not so bloody funny.

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[Fuzzar 1,702]

8 hours ago, JUBWICKS75 said:

Its hugely surprising how Lambert has struggled, I strongly believe tactical he is poor, and his attitude and stubbornness doesn't help. However I feel the club has something bigger to deal with. Mcgoldrick has gone on to score in the Premier league and Mings a frankly average player for Ipswich is now an England player, neither of which managed by Lambert. Its lazy to moan about the Norwich connection, but the club has been struggling since our play off losses to West ham, its a long way back now.

It really isn't if you could see the 'mission objectives' we sent him in with.

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

5 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

Something else I wanted to say on this subject, which I've been mulling over a while and would be very interested in other people's views.

I don't know whether this makes us better or worse fans than them, but if we had been given what they have endured over the last 10 seasons, especially the last 5, I can't believe that we would have taken it with such good grace, or perhaps one might call it apathy.

We'd have had protests every home game at Carrow Road. Evans would have been getting dog's abuse left, right and centre, possibly even to the point of disruption of his other businesses. Christ - we aren't doing too badly as a club right now but there are still plenty of detractors against our current owners even in our current, healthy, position. 

We've had very little of that from ITFC fans. They are almost glumly accepting their fate. A banner outside Playford Road is as tough as it has got - appreciate in Covid times it's difficult to do more but things have been bad there for a very long time. 

 

Without wanting to sound like Donald Trump (perish the thought), you are quite right. Chase was dealt with in an extremely unpleasant way and even required police protection. In general, the vast bulk of City fans wanted him out although strangely I still see the occasional post on here supporting him. 

Ipswich fans seem far more content with their fate and seem happy simply to look backwards rather than forwards. Some even want to appoint Butcher and Dyer based purely on their love for the club.

They also seem to be deluded about the talent in their squad. Top quality players stick out like a sore thumb at that level but in the Swindon game Downes was ordinary and Dozzell was probably the worst player on the pitch. 

Next season will be worse for them. According to comments on TWTD, they need to sell their best 4 or 5 players without replacement just to hit the wage cap rules. 

As for Lambert, he got lucky here in that he inherited a group of players that should never have been relegated in the first place and of course Grant Holt had been added in the summer. He was similar to Ferguson in that he was little more than a bully. That sort of management only works when a club is successful and when the manager is supported by good quality staff. Lambert had that at Norwich along with a squad that was good enough. He hasn't really had it since. Villa had the 13th highest wage bill in Europe when he arrived but they were an awful team. He actually did quite well to keep them up and clear out some deadwood. But when you take away his support staff and quality players he looks dreadfully exposed. He has also failed to do what Farke did here which was to clear the dressing room of negative voices. Chambers and Scuse should have been dumped a long time ago. 

There must be some break clauses in his contract but presumably they would kick in at the end of each season. Presumably if Evans sacks him now he'll have to cough up. If I was him I'd roll the dice now and appoint the Cowleys because it may be too late come the summer. I hope he doesn't 🙄

I'm 60 now and went to school on the Norfolk /Suffolk border during their period of over achievement. I used to dread the derby games because they really were a very good team. I now feel incredibly smug and make no apology for that at all. I'd love to see them play Kings Lynn. 

BroadstairsR has summed it up beautifully. A very funny Shakespearian tragedy. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by dylanisabaddog

[Bill 1,788]

The mistake is to regard the paupers present position as some kind of aberration - a failing.

Whereas it was their moment in the sun in the 70's that was an aberration. A small town club who got lucky mainly due to the largesse of the Cobbolds. They were nothing before, and have been nothing since.

Back then and before football was ran on cash - and cash payments were the order of the day, so it was not too difficult to recruit and retain players if the 'price was right'. Without that money the success has ebbed away as has the support

Plenty of valid points above, but they only deal with the symptoms not the cause.

Like music tapes, phone cards and Reliant Robins they had their reasons at the time - but like the paupers they have gone.

If they manage to wheeze into the Championship they will at best have a few months of success before slipping back to the bottom. Continuously trying to avoid the drop.

Tell me I am seeing this through green and yellow specs - but nothing above is not stuff I wasn't posting before Evans was handed the club - like you might pick up a broken violin hoping to scratch out a few forlorn tunes on it, as said

RIPswich

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Can't believe Ipswich needs more binners, but hey;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-australia-55614638

[king canary 7,580]

7 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

Something else I wanted to say on this subject, which I've been mulling over a while and would be very interested in other people's views.

I don't know whether this makes us better or worse fans than them, but if we had been given what they have endured over the last 10 seasons, especially the last 5, I can't believe that we would have taken it with such good grace, or perhaps one might call it apathy.

We'd have had protests every home game at Carrow Road. Evans would have been getting dog's abuse left, right and centre, possibly even to the point of disruption of his other businesses. Christ - we aren't doing too badly as a club right now but there are still plenty of detractors against our current owners even in our current, healthy, position. 

We've had very little of that from ITFC fans. They are almost glumly accepting their fate. A banner outside Playford Road is as tough as it has got - appreciate in Covid times it's difficult to do more but things have been bad there for a very long time. 

 

I'm not 100% sure about that. I think us fans in East Anglia are some of the more patient and passive fans out there. We went down the League One an had some serious financial issues and generally didn't complain that much.

Of course we never had to find out what would have happened if we hadn't gone straight back up but I think it would have been awhile before large scale protests.

[king canary 7,580]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

As for Lambert, he got lucky here in that he inherited a group of players that should never have been relegated in the first place and of course Grant Holt had been added in the summer.

Errrmm...no.

[GenerationA47 750]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

I'm not 100% sure about that. I think us fans in East Anglia are some of the more patient and passive fans out there. We went down the League One an had some serious financial issues and generally didn't complain that much.

Of course we never had to find out what would have happened if we hadn't gone straight back up but I think it would have been awhile before large scale protests.

Was just thinking in response to that I’d say by contrast there was/remains a lot of goodwill towards our owners at the time . DS-MWJ had been with us since the last lowest point for the club, got us to the PO final and later PL, and were clocking up 12 years or so of stability by then. 

But then the thought occurred that while the lot down the road aren’t nearly so fortunate, they do have ME in place for what must be at least a decade now, & if not providing actual stability/signs of success (or being a fan owner), rather the opposite, he does at least represent perhaps the promise of investment with his regular cash top-ups.
 

This sense of a flawed but benign patriarch might fuel the complacency we see down IP way.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

I'm not 100% sure about that. I think us fans in East Anglia are some of the more patient and passive fans out there. We went down the League One an had some serious financial issues and generally didn't complain that much.

Of course we never had to find out what would have happened if we hadn't gone straight back up but I think it would have been awhile before large scale protests.

Thanks for your thoughts - I do agree generally that we are a patient, stiff upper lipped bunch around this way generally. However, I don't believe for one second that we would have taken some 17 consecutive years in the Championship with, what, one playoff campaign, and two league one seasons looking way off promotion material, without large scale protests. 

I think back to Nigel Worthington - look at the wide scale protests and toxic atmosphere when he wasn't competing to get us back into the PL. And that was nowhere near as bad a situation as ITFC find themselves in. Then the 7-1 v Colchester, we had pitch invaders on the first day of the season. 

If we weren't winning most weeks in that league one season, there would have been hell to pay. 

[king canary 7,580]

36 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

Thanks for your thoughts - I do agree generally that we are a patient, stiff upper lipped bunch around this way generally. However, I don't believe for one second that we would have taken some 17 consecutive years in the Championship with, what, one playoff campaign, and two league one seasons looking way off promotion material, without large scale protests. 

I think back to Nigel Worthington - look at the wide scale protests and toxic atmosphere when he wasn't competing to get us back into the PL. And that was nowhere near as bad a situation as ITFC find themselves in. Then the 7-1 v Colchester, we had pitch invaders on the first day of the season. 

If we weren't winning most weeks in that league one season, there would have been hell to pay. 

The pitch invaders were two out of 24,000 though- fairly small fry. I think your right we may have kicked off more than Ipswich fans have (who just seem to have been ground down over the year) but I also think we're one of the most patient fan bases out there- I can't imagine many fanbases taking a season like last season with such minimal fuss.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

The pitch invaders were two out of 24,000 though- fairly small fry. I think your right we may have kicked off more than Ipswich fans have (who just seem to have been ground down over the year) but I also think we're one of the most patient fan bases out there- I can't imagine many fanbases taking a season like last season with such minimal fuss.

Agree with most of that. Would say on last season that the first 28 games weren't that bad. We were generally competitive, we were bottom but close enough to have a chance to stay up with some pretty favourable home games left. We had just beaten Leicester and put Spurs out of the cup - I was there for those games and we were outstanding especially at Spurs.

It went horribly wrong post lockdown and most seem to judge that season solely based upon those last 10 games. We don't know what went wrong (although I think Pukki's toe injury was a key factor and losing Hanley was a big blow) but going into last March we were playing pretty well and had attracted a lot of positive feedback from other PL managers and pundits. 

[ricardo 7,349]

Aston Villa fans had him weighed up.

If only Marcus Eveans had listened.

[Icecream Snow 761]

26 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Aston Villa fans had him weighed up.

If only Marcus Eveans had listened.

Huge disconnect between an owner in Randy Lerner who was trying to stop the club haemorrhaging money and a Villa fanbase who expected top 6 every season.

The warning signs were there when they offered Martinez the job and he turned them down. Grant Holt reckoned Lambert had his budget cut twice at Villa.

[sgncfc 1,223]

54 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

Agree with most of that. Would say on last season that the first 28 games weren't that bad. We were generally competitive, we were bottom but close enough to have a chance to stay up with some pretty favourable home games left. We had just beaten Leicester and put Spurs out of the cup - I was there for those games and we were outstanding especially at Spurs.

It went horribly wrong post lockdown and most seem to judge that season solely based upon those last 10 games. We don't know what went wrong (although I think Pukki's toe injury was a key factor and losing Hanley was a big blow) but going into last March we were playing pretty well and had attracted a lot of positive feedback from other PL managers and pundits. 

I don't think last season would have played out the way it did in front of 27,000 fans at each home game. We lost games we would have won in front of fans. It might not have made a huge difference to whether we were relegated but we would certainly have got more points.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

21 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

I don't think last season would have played out the way it did in front of 27,000 fans at each home game. We lost games we would have won in front of fans. It might not have made a huge difference to whether we were relegated but we would certainly have got more points.

I completely agree.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

When I was a young lad in middle school I lived in Norwich and we had an Ipswich fan in our class who used to gloat all the time whenever we lost a derby. I then had the misfortune of being moved to Ipswich as one of only 3 Norwich fans in the entire High School, and the abuse and mocking I received was endless. The last 10 years have been absolutely wonderful, long may they languish and suffer as their club declines into mediocrity.

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

22 hours ago, Bill said:

The mistake is to regard the paupers present position as some kind of aberration - a failing.

Whereas it was their moment in the sun in the 70's that was an aberration. A small town club who got lucky mainly due to the largesse of the Cobbolds. They were nothing before, and have been nothing since.

Back then and before football was ran on cash - and cash payments were the order of the day, so it was not too difficult to recruit and retain players if the 'price was right'. Without that money the success has ebbed away as has the support

It's not like me to speak up for that lot but this is nonsense. They won the league title in 1962 under Ramsey and qualified for the UEFA Cup 5 times in the 80's. 

Retaining players in those days was easier because there was no freedom of contract. Alleging that the Cobbolds used cash to retain players is ludicrous. Do you have any evidence to support that claim? 

The reason for their success over a long period was the ability of the Cobbolds to identify good managers and stick with them. However well any club is run it won't be successful unless they pick the right manager. The Cobbolds were brilliant at it, or very lucky. Evans on the other hand has got it hopelessly wrong time and again. 

 

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

Apparently they're after Lafferty ...

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

2 hours ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Apparently they're after Lafferty ...

Is that the son of the one who played for us😂

[sgncfc 1,223]

3 hours ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Apparently they're after Lafferty ...

In fairness, probably a good player for them in League One, but an example of exactly why they are where they are as he isn't good enough for the Championship if they were to go up. Short term recruitment in action.

[Bill 1,788]

3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

It's not like me to speak up for that lot but this is nonsense. They won the league title in 1962 under Ramsey and qualified for the UEFA Cup 5 times in the 80's. 

Retaining players in those days was easier because there was no freedom of contract. Alleging that the Cobbolds used cash to retain players is ludicrous. Do you have any evidence to support that claim? 

The reason for their success over a long period was the ability of the Cobbolds to identify good managers and stick with them. However well any club is run it won't be successful unless they pick the right manager. The Cobbolds were brilliant at it, or very lucky. Evans on the other hand has got it hopelessly wrong time and again.

No more than I can give you any evidence of the days it rained at Carrow Road in the 70's

Playing what was known as semi pro and a teen, it was common practice for win bonuses to be paid in cash. It went from a new washing machine to sign a youngster to 'leasing' the wife a new car.

i am not accusing the Cobbolds if anything that was not done elsewhere. They just had more money to do it. Once that went, so did the binners.

And my point stands. They did nothing before the 70's and have done nothing since the 70's.

The aberration ius nit that they are now in the third tier, by that they were in the top division for a while. Listening to Danny Hegan at Clacton Butlins merely confirmed how they did likewise.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

5 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

It's not like me to speak up for that lot but this is nonsense. They won the league title in 1962 under Ramsey and qualified for the UEFA Cup 5 times in the 80's. 

 

 

It is with gritted teeth that i have to agree with you dylan. They also finished runner up in the old First Division in 1980/81 and again in 1981/82. In 1980/81 they won the UEFA Cup as well as finishing runner up in the League.

I feel dirty now having posted that and need a shower.

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

No more than I can give you any evidence of the days it rained at Carrow Road in the 70's

Playing what was known as semi pro and a teen, it was common practice for win bonuses to be paid in cash. It went from a new washing machine to sign a youngster to 'leasing' the wife a new car.

i am not accusing the Cobbolds if anything that was not done elsewhere. They just had more money to do it. Once that went, so did the binners.

And my point stands. They did nothing before the 70's and have done nothing since the 70's.

The aberration ius nit that they are now in the third tier, by that they were in the top division for a while. Listening to Danny Hegan at Clacton Butlins merely confirmed how they did likewise.

What an absolute load of nonsense. Ipswich kept their players because there was no freedom of contract. The Cobbolds were no richer than any other club owner at the time. 

Why on earth do you persist with saying they were only strong in the 70's when they won three major competitions in the 60's and 80's? Have you forgotten Muhren and Thijssen? I still have nightmares about them. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

It is with gritted teeth that i have to agree with you dylan. They also finished runner up in the old First Division in 1980/81 and again in 1981/82. In 1980/81 they won the UEFA Cup as well as finishing runner up in the League.

I feel dirty now having posted that and need a shower.

Yes I feel angry that I have been forced to write it. Happily it's all in the past like everything to do with Ipswich. Bill obviously thinks it was just a bad dream. 

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

What an absolute load of nonsense. Ipswich kept their players because there was no freedom of contract. The Cobbolds were no richer than any other club owner at the time. 

Why on earth do you persist with saying they were only strong in the 70's when they won three major competitions in the 60's and 80's? Have you forgotten Muhren and Thijssen? I still have nightmares about them. 

We all know he talks nonsense and one of his other accounts will be along to support his theory shortly.

Agree with you, a good mate of mine is a binner and I probably shouldn't admit on here that I'm not one that hates them with a passion but anyone who can see that they were very successful through a number of decades.

Thankfully not any more 👍

 

[1902 1,167]

We are discussing their ancient history as much as they do on this thread. I therefore declare that there is a need for TWTD anonymous. We can all use our supposed second accounts and can work on going cold turkey until we are all clean and sober...

 

Well... Clean.