Was it really the right move

[jaberry2 549]

5 hours ago, Grumpy said:

Prompted by an article in the EDP regarding players out on loan.

Disregarding Klose,Trybul and Heise there are 17 currently out on loan.There are some who are playing non league who it would seem havent got a cat in hells chance of playing for the first team but what about those who were signed with the first team in mind.

I am thinking of the likes of McCallum,Soto,Sinani,Sitti,Bashiri and Famewo.

It would seem we are currently looking for at least a left back and a central defender pushing some of these players even further down the pecking order.Most of these players were sent out because they were considered not ready for championship football,never mind premiership and needed to further their development by playing elsewhere.

The situation regarding McCallum is good example.Bought at some considerable cost but a loanee is preferred so he is loaned back to Coventry.When injury to the loanee means that a defensive right sided player is the only option and there is the possibility that another left back is being scouted as cover,McCallums chances of playing for NCFC are pushed even further back.

Somehow I wonder if playing for Norwich first team is just a distant dream for some of these players and they might have been better going for a different option given that they might have had that opportunity.

 

 

Its just the Norwich model. They seem to favour an injury depleted squad (at times) and not sacrifice recalling players to stunt any of their development. Would still like McCallum back, who could offer us something. Other than that, not too bothered about the rest coming back before the end of the season.

[repman 633]

McCallum has had a pretty rapid rise through the levels, and has only just passed playing 50 senior games. The club may believe he needs consistent game time to keep improving or maybe they don't think he is good enough for us right now. He is only 20 years old and as already said his ability in stepping up has been good so far. He is English which will always help due to the homegrown rule. He is a left back which is one of the harder positions to recruit in, and one which the national side aren't stacked with players (unlike right back). 

[curious yellow 184]

It's great to be at the top of the league but that doesn't justify every decision made, although it is a great tribute to Farke to manage on what he has available. 

Players have been loaned out for different reasons, Heise, Klose and Trybull because we want to get rid of them, some to add value so we can sell on, some like McCallum and Sinani to meet wages budgets. 

I believe that if we had handled the Trybull/Leitner/Drmic situation better we would be in an even stronger position now. Prospective purchases could be deterred from joining the club. 

The future looks bleak for Sitti who is getting no game time, he could end up in the same position as Gilmour. 

The loan system can be good but I think we are too involved at the moment. It was good for Madison and Godfrey but I think they were always going to make the top grade. Some have been just as promising but lost their way out on loan. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

39 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

We bought him at a time when Byram was injured long term ( and still is ! ) and Lewis had been sold to Newcastle which meant we were desperately short of a LB and i am still of the opinion Alex that McCallum was bought as the answer to the problem rather than one for the future.

Eh? If that was what actually happened then what you said would be far more plausible.

However, that’s not even close to the chain of events...

We signed McCallum in January 2020 whereupon we sent him straight back on loan to Coventry - Sam Byram did not get injured until February, and Jamal Lewis didn’t even leave us until early September!

So you’re saying he was bought to be first choice over Lewis and Byram at that point? I’m sorry, but just no, he wasn’t.

To add to that, Quintilla was brought to City late in August, that kind of suggests he was was the senior experienced LB coming in to fill the departing Jamal’s void, as Sam McCallum was then sent back on loan to Coventry. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Alex Moss

[TIL 1010 4,717]

22 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Eh? If that was what actually happened then what you said would be far more plausible.

However, that’s not even close to the chain of events...

We signed McCallum in January 2020 whereupon we sent him straight back on loan to Coventry - Sam Byram did not get injured until February, and Jamal Lewis didn’t even leave us until early September!

So you’re saying he was bought to be first choice over Lewis and Byram at that point? I’m sorry, but just no, he wasn’t.

To add to that, Quintilla was brought to City late in August, that kind of suggests he was was the senior experienced LB coming in to fill the departing Jamal’s void, as Sam McCallum was then sent back on loan to Coventry. 

I stand corrected Alex as 2020 has become a disjointed year for me as far as football is concerned but i am of the opinion that he was surely next in the pecking order to be LB once Byram was injured and Lewis left ? He was 3rd choice back in January 2020 and a year later to the month he is still 3rd choice as Quintilla and Sorensen have replaced Byram and Lewis.

[Mason 47 1,371]

From what I think I remember, McCallum wasn't showing quite the level we expected of a starting LB- good enough for the Championship but not quite good enough to be in a side challenging- which is why Xavi came in and he went out; if he had stayed and everything went to plan, he would have spent a year in the reserves which benefits nobody.

Inarguable that it was a little silly to go in with only 1 left back, though- it's worked out, but not by the grace of our savvy planning.

I'd expect us to be looking for a permanent LB, as I'm not sure we're completely convinced by Xavi (defensively or physically) so someone like a next-level Heise (potentially good enough for Prem, mitigating circumstances holding them back, contract soon to expire)

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Grumpy said:

But in reality that's because of circumstances not share ability,so much so that they played a half fit and very cautious Krul and they are on the lookout for another backup.

Sure, just saying that it can happen.... the poster I replied to (not sure if it were you or not) seemed to be writing off players in non-league, but Vardy, Watkins et al would suggest that is unwise however unlikely.

Bali Mumba was playing at North Shields last year wasn't he? 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

19 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Bali Mumba was playing at North Shields last year wasn't he? 

True, but I think that was down to politics between him and Sunderland rather than it being his perceived level at that time. To me its fascinating , the different  development  speeds of different  players. Rooney playing 1st team for Everton  at 16, then theres Vardy who came through late, but seems to be keeping his pace/ stamina far better than Rooney  did. Maybe lifestyle, maybe genetics maybe luck. Either way I hate  transfer windows, should  be renamed transfer  windups. 

[Nuff Said 5,081]

4 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Going into a season with three centre backs and one left back is a little bit like not buying home insurance or riding a bicycle at night without any lights or reflective gear. You may well get away with it for a while and claim your decision was right, but it doesn't necessary mean it was a wise decision and it will probably come back to bite you eventually if you persist with it.

Sorry Wacky but it is nothing like not buying home insurance. If you need it you use it, if you don’t, you don’t. It’s a clear yes/no decision and result. Only having one recognised left back, but a selection of players who could do a job there is very different. It’s more like not buying travel insurance because you know you can claim for your belongings on your home contents. It’s not as good because you won’t get compensation for delays and cancellations, but you have the cover that matters to you.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,776]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

Sorry Wacky but it is nothing like not buying home insurance. If you need it you use it, if you don’t, you don’t. It’s a clear yes/no decision and result. Only having one recognised left back, but a selection of players who could do a job there is very different. It’s more like not buying travel insurance because you know you can claim for your belongings on your home contents. It’s not as good because you won’t get compensation for delays and cancellations, but you have the cover that matters to you.

I think you're taking my comment a little bit too seriously.

[YellowSubmarine 39]

10 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Klose is pretty much finished. Love the guy, but since his injury hes been a fridge.

 

McCallum on the other hand.. Still no clue why we loaned him out.

DF not keen, not the player he expected. He was loaned out to keep value up to try and regain a near fee that was paid. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

4 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

I stand corrected Alex as 2020 has become a disjointed year for me as far as football is concerned but i am of the opinion that he was surely next in the pecking order to be LB once Byram was injured and Lewis left ? He was 3rd choice back in January 2020 and a year later to the month he is still 3rd choice as Quintilla and Sorensen have replaced Byram and Lewis.

I think that’s more than excusable, John - in fairness 2020 I think will be a muddled timeline for us all! And I take your point that he was 3rd in line to start for us, though I’m guessing Webber and Farke thought at that moment in January 2020 the chances of him being in a position to start over Lewis and Byram were so slim that some time out on loan was far more beneficial in order to get him up to speed whilst gaining valuable experience. I’m not sure what happens in the summer though, if we go up I wonder if at that point Webber and Farke will be confident he’s ready to challenge for a starting berth in the worlds top division? I have a sneaking feeling he will still be playing second+ fiddle.