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Lockdown Looks To Be On Its Way.

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If they lockdown then people have to be properly paid what they earn in their jobs and no exclusions. This nonsense of 80% up to £2500 is a joke. If they are legally stopping people from working and opening their business then what right do the government have to dictate how much they can earn? People tend to live by their means and if a person Is used to earning a certain amount then the chances are their life costs that amount to live. Some will soon have spent a whole year on furlough or worse lost their jobs when the people making these decisions haven’t missed a single pay cheque, and in many cases stand to make a lot of money

Edited by JF

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8 minutes ago, kirku said:

Concentration camps? Grow up. Only China fits that bill.

Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, South Korea, New Zealand. All have dealt with it very efficiently and successfully. 

The UK hasn't. 

As someone whose family were decimated in the holocaust and whose grandfather was a concentration camp survivor, I would say that China doesn't fit the bill either. Unless you're talking about the Uighurs. In which case it does, but that's not Covid related.

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9 minutes ago, kirku said:

Concentration camps? Grow up. Only China fits that bill.

Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, South Korea, New Zealand. All have dealt with it very efficiently and successfully. 

The UK hasn't. 

Not to mention that Taiwan is a very densely populated area (or indeed Japan) so the common cry of "but they're not so populated" falls apart right there.

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10 minutes ago, kirku said:

Concentration camps? Grow up. Only China fits that bill.

Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, South Korea, New Zealand. All have dealt with it very efficiently and successfully. 

The UK hasn't. 

The Far East Asian countries have more experience dealing with virus epidemics and more oppressive governments.

countries like New Zealand have tiny, sparse populations. It’s a very easy prospect to control the virus in these situations. New Zealand has the population half the size of London in a absolutely huge area. Well done to the mayor of New Zealand.

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Lockdown as strict and non-vague as possible is the only way. Backed up by goverment money. The british public as a whole have proved incapable of helping themselves and depriving them of places to go is the only way. The failure of test and trace is deeply disappointing and I can't see anyway of resolving this.

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1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

We are now paying the price for weak indecisive leadership from govt pre Christmas. Utter shambles. Worst case scenario it de-rails or delays vaccine rollout.

Its not an easy job trying to balance containing a virus with avoiding permanent economic doom.

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11 minutes ago, kick it off said:

As someone whose family were decimated in the holocaust and whose grandfather was a concentration camp survivor, I would say that China doesn't fit the bill either. Unless you're talking about the Uighurs. In which case it does, but that's not Covid related.

Yes, the Uighur camps. 

I've not seen anything covid related than can be compared to concentration camps by any right-minded person.

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1 minute ago, kirku said:

Yes, the Uighur camps. 

I've not seen anything covid related than can be compared to concentration camps by any right-minded person.

Plenty in North Korea also of course.

(I may have missed the context here, in which case apologies, if you are talking specifically about covid then I definitely have). 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Its not an easy job trying to balance containing a virus with avoiding permanent economic doom.

I think that ship has sailed

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Just now, JF said:

I think that ship has sailed

Most likely. 

Or they could start stripping knighthoods from tax avoiders and actually start collecting tax from the super rich and multinational corporations, take some of the burden off of the middle classes and British SMEs. I suppose that is far too sensible a proposition.

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3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Plenty in North Korea also of course.

(I may have missed the context here, in which case apologies, if you are talking specifically about covid then I definitely have). 

Context of countries that have dealt well with covid. Who knows what the situation is like in NK.

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Just now, kirku said:

Context of countries that have dealt well with covid. Who knows what the situation is like in NK.

They probably have fantastic figures as I can't imagine they can afford to test anybody.

0 tests means 0 cases doesn't it.

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1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Need to lock down as it is now a race vaccine v the virus.

All key workers should be vaccinated immediately, then finish all over 70’s. 
The 2 months will enable us to vaccinate in the 10’s of millions ( there will be plenty of doses by February ). I appreciate many will be against yet another lock down but in fairness the way it is spreading something has to give.

Us up North have pretty much been locked down ( summer aside ) for months.

I get this horrible feeling Boris is up to his usual lies, there isn’t the number of vaccines nor the organisation ready to administer that many, might be Easter 2022 knowing this pile of ****e government!

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25 minutes ago, kick it off said:

As a teacher, I can honestly say that you should be pointing your anger towards Gavin Williamson and the Department for Education. Teachers are currently unable to plan anything in advance because those inept **** keep changing the guidance every 5 minutes. There have been 5 versions of "guidance" since Thursday. How the **** can any of us organise anything when they don't tell us what we're meant to be organising?

If the work sent home continues to be **** then by all means make complaints and contact your MP - schools have a duty in law now to provide 4 hours at least of education per day and your child is entitled to receive that, but cut them some slack until Tuesday, give us chance to put things in place.

I will also point out that remote education is not just a pain in the **** for parents. Teachers hate it. All of us. Without exception. Nobody chose to become a teacher to sit in front of a screen all day. I won't be invoking Section 44 which is what the unions are telling us to do, because I don't feel like it's the right thing to do at this point.... but I entirely sympathise with colleagues who has. 

Teachers want schools open, but we want them open safely. Schools are not safe. For the staff and for the kids.

The government have consistently failed to provide support for online learning. The "laptop delivery" they promised ended up delivering pretty much **** all. I know schools who ordered 188 laptops to allow all their kids to access online learning. Guess how many they received? One. One solitary laptop.

The sensible solution would have been blended learning and rota system for face to face from September. That would allow smaller class sizes for proper distancing, regular face to face teaching for all. That requires government support to provide laptops and broadband for those that can't access it. The government have consistently failed to support any sensible solutions. Other countries have managed it perfectly fine.

My school are working on the basis of lessons set every day online, according to timetables, and every lesson should have a video attached to it, either of the full lesson, key points or instructions (at teacher discretion as per appropriate for lesson). 

Gavin Williamson is literally the worst education secretary in history. Gove was bad, but at least competent. His ideas were ****e but at least he had the nous to implement them. Williamson is incompetent to the highest degree, has no ideas and no idea how to implement them.

Excellent post

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16 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The Far East Asian countries have more experience dealing with virus epidemics and more oppressive governments.

countries like New Zealand have tiny, sparse populations. It’s a very easy prospect to control the virus in these situations. New Zealand has the population half the size of London in a absolutely huge area. Well done to the mayor of New Zealand.

You can continue the mental gymnastics for as long as you wish, but the fact of the matter is that the UK has faired significantly worse than vast swathes of the planet.

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1 minute ago, Indy said:

I get this horrible feeling Boris is up to his usual lies, there isn’t the number of vaccines nor the organisation ready to administer that many, might be Easter 2022 knowing this pile of ****e government!

Hi Indy

As you know I follow this closely. Plenty of vaccine just need to start getting it into arms. No plan and 5,000,000 behind

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Just to add to my post on teaching - this is an app that posts out daily surveys for teachers. The most surprising thing about this one is that 80 people trust Gavin Williamson in any capacity. I would say he must have a large number of teachers in his family but if he did, they'd have disowned him long ago. He should have stuck to selling fireplaces.

Image

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If the virus is so serious can anyone explain why most of our modern clean surgeries have been closed over the weekend for two days. There have been plenty of volunteers with previous vaccination experience who would have been quite willing to assist. Numerous people would have been quite happy to deal with admin parking etc. Quiet two days for car owners to bring in the elderly. (OK some slight risk in this). We need to get a grip sooner rather than later. To help NHS I see no reason why everyone should not pay a fiver for the vacc.

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6 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

>Believing some countries infection rates and death figures

 

image.thumb.png.091eef141ee163bb49c95ffb42462943.png

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1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Hi Indy

As you know I follow this closely. Plenty of vaccine just need to start getting it into arms. No plan and 5,000,000 behind

Israel seems to be doing really well in terms of getting the vaccine rolled out

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31 minutes ago, kick it off said:

As a teacher, I can honestly say that you should be pointing your anger towards Gavin Williamson and the Department for Education. Teachers are currently unable to plan anything in advance because those inept **** keep changing the guidance every 5 minutes. There have been 5 versions of "guidance" since Thursday. How the **** can any of us organise anything when they don't tell us what we're meant to be organising?

If the work sent home continues to be **** then by all means make complaints and contact your MP - schools have a duty in law now to provide 4 hours at least of education per day and your child is entitled to receive that, but cut them some slack until Tuesday, give us chance to put things in place.

I will also point out that remote education is not just a pain in the **** for parents. Teachers hate it. All of us. Without exception. Nobody chose to become a teacher to sit in front of a screen all day. I won't be invoking Section 44 which is what the unions are telling us to do, because I don't feel like it's the right thing to do at this point.... but I entirely sympathise with colleagues who has. 

Teachers want schools open, but we want them open safely. Schools are not safe. For the staff and for the kids.

The government have consistently failed to provide support for online learning. The "laptop delivery" they promised ended up delivering pretty much **** all. I know schools who ordered 188 laptops to allow all their kids to access online learning. Guess how many they received? One. One solitary laptop.

The sensible solution would have been blended learning and rota system for face to face from September. That would allow smaller class sizes for proper distancing, regular face to face teaching for all. That requires government support to provide laptops and broadband for those that can't access it. The government have consistently failed to support any sensible solutions. Other countries have managed it perfectly fine.

My school are working on the basis of lessons set every day online, according to timetables, and every lesson should have a video attached to it, either of the full lesson, key points or instructions (at teacher discretion as per appropriate for lesson). 

Gavin Williamson is literally the worst education secretary in history. Gove was bad, but at least competent. His ideas were ****e but at least he had the nous to implement them. Williamson is incompetent to the highest degree, has no ideas and no idea how to implement them.

100% I have family members in teaching and totally concur.

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11 minutes ago, kirku said:

You can continue the mental gymnastics for as long as you wish, but the fact of the matter is that the UK has faired significantly worse than vast swathes of the planet.

I mean, what countries do we include in this? 

I'd hazard a guess that when somebody pegs in in Lagos its just a case of "oh he's dead, lets bury him", think they test them for coronavirus? 

Only really makes sense to compare the developed world where people have post mortems and established testing regimes, in which case we're about the same as USA, Spain and France, and fared a little better than Belgium and Italy.

If we're looking for a decent example of a successful comparable country we should probably be looking at Germany, and completely ignoring anywhere where they have millions surviving on $1 a day. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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Just now, Well b back said:

Hi Indy

As you know I follow this closely. Plenty of vaccine just need to start getting it into arms. No plan and 5,000,000 behind

Yes WBB, can you confirm how many Oxford vaccine doses are actually ready to be distributed? As I read it as of Monday we have 530,000 but no more till middle of January with no actual numbers mentioned just this mythical tens of millions by April! 

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4 minutes ago, vos said:

There have been plenty of volunteers with previous vaccination experience who would have been quite willing to assist. 

Its a very difficult vaccine to handle isn't it? The need to store at incredibly low temperatures is the reason why it couldn't be taken into care homes. So there would be a limited number of locations for that reason?

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3 minutes ago, vos said:

To help NHS I see no reason why everyone should not pay a fiver for the vacc.

Absolutely agree but I do struggle with this, only in so much as NHS England has been doling out contracts to Boris' mates and Tory backers who have zero experience in PPE etc. I don't want to line the pockets of those shyster bastards.

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1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Need to lock down as it is now a race vaccine v the virus.

All key workers should be vaccinated immediately, then finish all over 70’s
The 2 months will enable us to vaccinate in the 10’s of millions ( there will be plenty of doses by February ). I appreciate many will be against yet another lock down but in fairness the way it is spreading something has to give.

Us up North have pretty much been locked down ( summer aside ) for months.

Bit drastic Wbb, but that would cut down on the amount of vaccines we'd need I suppose. Every cloud

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1 minute ago, kirku said:

Israel seems to be doing really well in terms of getting the vaccine rolled out

We are doing a good job, just Johnson has over promised. This is a race the ‘ world ‘ needs to win, it’s not a battle against each other.

India have today approved 2 vaccines ( one of them Oxford AstraZeneca and an Indian one ), and the Serum Institute will be supplying 60% of the world, in 2 months they will be producing 300 million doses a month and increasing.

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8 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I mean, what countries do we include in this? 

I'd hazard a guess that when somebody pegs in in Lagos its just a case of "oh he's dead, lets bury him", think they test them for coronavirus? 

Only really makes sense to compare the developed world where people have post mortems and established testing regimes, in which case we're about the same as USA, and France, and fared a little better than Belgium and Italy.

If we're looking for a decent example of a successful comparable country we should probably be looking at Germany, and completely ignoring anywhere where they have millions surviving on $1 a day. 

image.thumb.png.43f74668f7d9c24d02ebdb8c015756c0.png

Like that?

The government was seemingly obsessed with giving us an "Australia style" immigration system, mooted an "Australia style" no deal Brexit, I wish they'd tried an "Australia style" covid response..

Edited by kirku
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