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NeymarSmith

Farke's Favourite

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Zimmerman. 

Been a journey (I ate that overused trendy mumpreneur term) as signed as the staple stick to beat the webber-lution with of a fourth division German player to the Berlin wall who captained us to promotion. 

Seems to be on the end of some stick in last couple weeks by some fans, and although his passing was way off against QPR, I think some of his taking cross field passes and very good - but way off against QPR.

He also had couple uncharacteristic sloppy back passes in last couple games and obviously gave the pen away.

 

So just wanted to know how people on the pink feel about him. Are you team zimbo or zimmerframe.

I firmly love the man, think he is Mr reliable and honestly, probably through rose tinted glasses, he is my pick of CB just on commitment.

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Been brilliant for us and clearly a great character.

I’d still pick Hanley and Gibson ahead of him though!

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He is now completely a different player after his injury against west ham.  He wasn't quick to begin with but his got even slower now. Also his passing has gone completely, and if it was deeney he passed back to against Watford it would have been an even worse result.

In my opinion Gibson is 100% an upgrade and should be Hanley's defensive partner for the rest of the season, and we should be looking for another CB in January. 

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I think Gibson was also making mistakes but they didn't lead directly to goals and / or Hanley covered for them.

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He is not in form at the moment and Gibson and Hanley would be my first choice at the moment. Seems like a great character and has been a great signing for us. 

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Tough one.

I rate him. I also don't think he is slow in the sense of no pace at all. There are two types of speed typically when it comes to sport, explosive over the short distance and then those who take longer to get up to speed but can go for longer distances. Iwan was like that, you would never have called him pacey but he consistently ran well over distance in preseason tests. I think he may even brag about it now!

There were a number of times that Zimmermann kept pace over a distance with their players, including the pen.

Personally, having watched it again, it isn't a pen. I do think that this side of the game needs clearing up rules wise. As a striker, you shouldn't be able to hold back a defender from making a tackle then throw yourself to the ground when then merely touch your shoulder. Yes, it can be said that as a defender just don't put your hands on anyone in the penalty area. But then we must also ask them to perfect their sniper shot routines so that they go down like a sack of spuds when a striker does that.

It's not quite as bad as my real bugbear which is when an attacker goes in quite deliberately shoulder to shoulder with a defender, finds out they are not as strong, then throws themselves to the floor. To me that is the physical part of the game. Get up, realise you are not as strong and do something different next time...

Anyhow, back on topic. Outside of the penalty, our defence limited QPR to two shots on target all game. I would call that a success and it's hard to argue it.

He's not been at his best in the last couple of games but then the team hasn't as a whole. Pukki has, as Mr Bailey put it, "looks like a man who welcomed his 2nd child into the world this week" - tired. Buendia was having one of those games where it wasn't going for him. Sorenson was looking like the CM playing at LB he is - teams look like they are targeting this a lot.

So in my view I probably would bring Gibson in, primarily to bring a left footed defender onto the pitch so that anyone playing down the oppo's right isn't facing up against two right footed players down there.

I do think it is incredibly hard to point fingers at this point. There isn't anyone really having a howler, just a sort of collective pause in a brilliant run. Remember, this comes off the back of a run of some fantastic results. We can't win every game and if you can't win, then at the very least don't lose.

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I think there's a bit of unfair criticism going Zimbo's way. I didn't think either penalty for us or against was a penalty v QPR. And other than that we kept QPR very quiet. 

That said, it seems clear that GIbson and Hanley is our best partnership. When they play with Krul we look very tight indeed. But they can't play every game, and Zimbo is a decent third centre half at this level. 

I just think some folk pay too much attention to our 'best XI'. Rarely can you put that out. It's a squad game and you need everyone to contribute. When Gibson has had 2-3 weeks back in full training I think he will get back in the side. 

We need to back all of our players. McLean and Tettey whilst Rupp is out. Zimbo whilst Gibson is out. Sorensen whilst Xavi is out. They all have their part to play. 

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Zimbo has had a shaky moment or two, but then so has Hanley in his run of games. That aside, both ae very decent defenders at this level and we should be grateful we have both of them. I don't rate Gibson that much higher than eithe of them but he is also plainly a top defender at this level too. Three very good centre halves.  

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Love Zimbo and can’t complain about the defence. It’s the most efficient it’s ever been in Daniel’s time here. Can’t not expect the odd mistake or penalty given away, that would be ridiculous and is part and parcel.

If anything, with the quality we have in attack, we should be scoring more and taking the pressure off our defenders - Zimbo’s conceded penalty should have been nothing more than a mere consolation for QPR the other night.

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I think that Zimmermann's over-reaction might have resulted from the loss of McGovern and, being  anxious to protect the youngster in goal, he went in with too heavy a hand.

Let's hope that we don't have yet another scapegoat-fest as a result of that incident because apart from that, and a couple of dodgy moments that have not cost, the player has slotted in rather well after his long lay off.

Edited by BroadstairsR
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Has to be Gibson and Hanley now. Zimbo has been brilliant for us, and I'm sure still has a lot to offer. But Gibson and Hanley looked very solid before Gibson's injury. I think it's the better pairing. 

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5 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Has to be Gibson and Hanley now. Zimbo has been brilliant for us, and I'm sure still has a lot to offer. But Gibson and Hanley looked very solid before Gibson's injury. I think it's the better pairing. 

We've not seen Zimbo and Gibson play together yet, but Hanley as long as he stays fit, is proving he will be hard to shift from the team. Zimbo and Gibson though, could be a very good pairing if it happens, either through injury or suspension to GH. 

Edited by lake district canary

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We are looking to improve our defence and only going to pick two CBs when all of them are fit.

He is third in line, no disrespect to him. He is not as good as the others. So it isn't a matter of like or dislike. Its a matter of need.

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I think Farke is trying to get through to the Barnsley game with this group of players...after which we will have a 2 week break before the next league game.

The Coventry cup game I assume he has earmarked to give returning players like Gibson (..and Krul Quintilla Rupp Dowell Placheta Steipermann) some valuable game time.

...if he's still not picking our best players after that ..particularly Gibson/Zimmerman then there would be concerns?

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10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

We've not seen Zimbo and Gibson play together yet, but Hanley as long as he stays fit, is proving he will be hard to shift from the team. Zimbo and Gibson though, could be a very good pairing if it happens, either through injury or suspension to GH. 

With the greatest of respect Zimmerman is all over the place, attackers are in behind him, he is missing headers and has not been the same since his injury.

This is professional football there is no room for sentiment.

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24 minutes ago, Well b back said:

With the greatest of respect Zimmerman is all over the place, attackers are in behind him, he is missing headers and has not been the same since his injury.

This is professional football there is no room for sentiment.

That's a bit harsh imo as he's done a lot of good things too. Hanley has committed quite a few indiscretions too, let's not forget. Agree Zimm is not maybe at his best yet, but one of the issues in defence is not having Krul there, vocal and organising. Defences work together and Krul is a big part of that.

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10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

That's a bit harsh imo as he's done a lot of good things too. Hanley has committed quite a few indiscretions too, let's not forget. Agree Zimm is not maybe at his best yet, but one of the issues in defence is not having Krul there, vocal and organising. Defences work together and Krul is a big part of that.

Very true. Sometimes the keeper can see more than defenders. That is why it can be tough starting out for a young keeper. The pecking order.

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Zimbo is one of three competent central defenders that we have.  Every player makes mistakes, and I trust Farkes judgement.

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I think there' very little to chose between our 3 CBs, I've seen Gibson & Hanley make as many ****-ups as Zimbo.

Regarding the penalty, I think it's a classic clever bit of forward play to buy it. He knows Christoph's lack of mobility so he's got to get tight to him, by moving closer at the opportune moment he forces Zimm to put his arm out to keep balance, then when the forward falls over it looks like a foul. Happens a lot.

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The thing with Gibson being absent is that Hanley has switched to the left and imo we are collectively that much weaker that side. Gibson gives us far better balance. Zimmermann is ok for Championship but well well short of a higher level.

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Put simply , at this level they are all very capable defenders who would get in most teams defence in this league. Move up to PL level and all 3 will likely struggle with the huge jump in quality that they will face. 

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Zimmermann is a back up championship CB. And that's all he will be. If we go up thats a position we probably need 2 new players in. 

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He seems to me to be suffering the most from losing Kruls leadership and organisational abilities. 

I like Zimbo but him and Hanley don't compliment each other brilliantly and the idea is Gibson + 1 really. 

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27 minutes ago, Move Klose said:

Zimmermann is a back up championship CB. And that's all he will be. If we go up thats a position we probably need 2 new players in. 

Correction ... back up promotion chasing Championship CB.

 

He compares rather well with the majority of defenders in the league. Always has, always will.

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28 minutes ago, king canary said:

He seems to me to be suffering the most from losing Kruls leadership and organisational abilities. 

I like Zimbo but him and Hanley don't compliment each other brilliantly and the idea is Gibson + 1 really. 

This ^^^

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31 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:
1 hour ago, Move Klose said:

Zimmermann is a back up championship CB. And that's all he will be. If we go up thats a position we probably need 2 new players in. 

Correction ... back up promotion chasing Championship CB.

He compares rather well with the majority of defenders in the league. Always has, always will.

Correction to both the above - he is not "back-up" anything - he is part of a promotion chasing squad, end of.  He proved himself two years ago as a main player in a promotion team and without the injury last season might have proved his worth in the PL too. 

Three equally important CBs and if Hanley is injured, he and Gibson would - and should - make a very good pairing. 

Edited by lake district canary

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Well if you want to nit-pick, let's concentrate on the starting eleven.

As big a fan of Zimbo as I am I would currently start him behind a Hanley/Gibson duo.

That's back-up.

 

Not that it might not change at some point in the season.

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1 minute ago, BroadstairsR said:

Well if you want to nit-pick, let's concentrate on the starting eleven.

As big a fan of Zimbo as I am I would currently start him behind a Hanley/Gibson duo.

That's back-up.

 

Not that it might not change at some point in the season.

It doesn't always work like that does it?

I still see Zimmermann as the best defender we have in the air. Despite all of the praise heaped on Gibson, Zimmermann can still hit better long balls. When you have a squad of players it isn't just down to personal opinion on who is better it is looking at the opposition and deciding who would go against them the best.

Zimbo gives everything and puts everything on the line. Would love to have the time to go through all of the games this season and stat them but I suspect there is very little difference between those three. They each have strengths and weaknesses.

Establishing a partnership is important too, as with Malky and Fleming. I would even say, to much disagreement I am sure, that neither of those as individuals were standout defenders in the division at the time. Neither of them were particularly young - both 30+. And were joined by Edworthy on that promotion season who was older than them I believe.

It just goes to show it is not always the best players on paper that make a good team.

As for whether they are a championship player or not. That sort of view is always rather useless. People last season were saying Hanley was League One at best. Now he's our best defender. The truth is none of our CB's had an extended run in the premier league due to injuries. When each of them came back they made a huge difference.

If we are to go up again at the end of this season, it won't be much different to last time. We won't just be able to go and sign two CB's easily with floods of cash. So in all likelihood it'll be the three we have (Klose will most likely be gone), with the addition of one other.

If we spend money, it'll need to be on a striker, because realistically, if we don't, we'll struggle the same as we did last time should injury or form impact Pukki. Not only that, but those two CM positions are still open for debate. Rupp may well be good for it but is 30 in Jan. Skipp is on loan and unless we can sign him on loan/perm again it is another less. Vrancic is out of contract. Tettey is retiring.

It leaves us with Rupp, McLean, Sorenson and Siti. Two as yet untested in that position in English football and the other two arguably may struggle to be considered as truly DM in the combative sense. 

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